Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 1. Verse seventeen says "dwells within me" (inner nature where the lusts are}. Not the outer nature or flesh! Please, stop the gibberish. Your gospel does not teach you respect for others Sonny. That in itself is enough of a deterent for me... Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II I know of no bible text which expressely states Christ "took into Himself" our nature. Dude....I really can't deal with the illogical reasoning that I'm reading from both you and Miz3. Of course miz3 is the worst. Look, YOU died 2000 years ago! Where? In Christ! Do you have sin dwelling in you? Yes! Then Christ, because He assumed YOU, had within Him our fallen nature. Why? Because YOU were in Him. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 "By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption." [Ellen G. White] I will give this further thought Sonny. :-) But it does not however state that sin entered Christ. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I have said this time and again and yet no one has proven from Scripture that I have misstated the facts: Jesus was the Passover Lamb, that died to pay the penalty for the disobedience of the progenitors of the Kingdom of Heaven, that is, Adam and Eve, and thus the entire K of H. If Jesus had ANY sin in Him in ANY FORM then He would have been unsuitable to be the Passover Lamb, and therefore unsuitable to pay that penalty. If this is the case then all those who would claim membership in the Kingdom of Heaven would be lost because the sacrifice for the penalty would have been unsuitable; that sacrifice had to be sinless. If you disagree with this assessment please prove it by using OT Scripture and the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as He gave them to His eyewitness disciples. I agree with your reasoning here on this point MM. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The key issue here is this: When did Christ take the sins of the world into Himself? Two possible answers: A) Incarnation. The cross. Using the sanctuary service, it is clear that the lamb was brought to the sacrifice without any flaw or fault. Just before the sacrifice, the sins were transferred from the repentant believer and passed to the Lamb. The Lamb was then slain and suffered the consequence of the sin that was passed to it. This is all a figure of Christ. This object lesson from the sanctuary service, clearly teaches that our sins were placed on Christ just prior to the crucifixion, or indeed at the crucifixion. So with that in mind, the only logical answer is "B", unless there is something that needs to be considered that has not been made prominent. Mark :-) Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Your gospel does not teach you respect for others Sonny. That in itself is enough of a deterent for me... Well, fine, but what Paul states is a lot worse than what I say: Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Sonny "By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption." [Ellen G. White] I will give this further thought Sonny. :-) But it does not however state that sin entered Christ. The humanity that Christ took into Himself is our humanity indwelt with sin. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 When did Christ take the sins of the world into Himself? The question should be "when did Christ take us into himself?" Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 You keep stating this Sonny, but the texts you supply do not support this claim: Rom 6:6 our old man (our life from Adam after the fall) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin [our humanity indwelt with sin] might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin.... Rom 7:4 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II Your gospel does not teach you respect for others Sonny. That in itself is enough of a deterent for me... Well, fine, but what Paul states is a lot worse than what I say: Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! There is a difference between mocking someone and admonishing them Sonny. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II I will give this further thought Sonny. :-) But it does not however state that sin entered Christ. The humanity that Christ took into Himself is our humanity indwelt with sin. It does not say that Sonny... You are assuming that. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II When did Christ take the sins of the world into Himself? The question should be "when did Christ take us into himself?" No the issue is when Christ took our sins upon Himself. Everyone here accepts that we were crucified with Christ, specifically our "old man" with its lusts and desires. The question is, when did our sin, both known and unknown pass to Christ. The biblical model of the sanctuary points to the cross, not the incarnation. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II You keep stating this Sonny, but the texts you supply do not support this claim: Rom 6:6 our old man (our life from Adam after the fall) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin [our humanity indwelt with sin] might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin.... Rom 7:4 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. All of this relates to the Cross Sonny. Not the incarnation. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Paul: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned" There is a difference between mocking someone and admonishing them Sonny. Which would you rather have: 1] Some mocking or 2] Eternal condemnation? You have to chose, one or the other. Quote
Twilight II Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II Paul: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned" There is a difference between mocking someone and admonishing them Sonny. Which would you rather have: 1] Some mocking or 2] Eternal condemnation? You have to chose, one or the other. Mocking comes from satan. It is a spirit of superiority. It is pride. Anyone engaging in it and defending the use of it, will have some explaining to do in the judgement. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 It does not say that Sonny... You are assuming that. It's not an assumption at all, Mark. Come on!!! The humanity that needed saving is the humanity Christ assumed. It was our humanity, indwelt by sin, that needed saving. Not the sinless Adam before the fall, or the sinless Adam with a body that was post-fall. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Mocking comes from satan. It is a spirit of superiority. It is pride. Anyone engaging in it and defending the use of it, will have some explaining to do in the judgement. Then Paul won't make it....He mocked. What I'm mocking is the cockamamie, halfbreed gospel that you calling the real thing. It's a hybrid...it's truth and error mixed. Now, I know what's going on, when folks start losing ground in a debate they change the subject. Let's get back to the debate. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Paul: Rom 6:6 our old man (our life from Adam after the fall) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin [our humanity indwelt with sin] might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin.... Rom 7:4 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. All of this relates to the Cross Sonny. Not the incarnation. In order for you to be "in Christ" at the cross God had to place you in Him before that event. Not only this, but the law requires two things, not one. 1] Perfect obedience 2] Perfect justice You are only dealing with the justice end of it. Christ needed to also obey in our humanity. That's # 1. In order to do this He had to assume you before the cross. Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Mocking comes from satan. It is a spirit of superiority. It is pride. Elijah was used by satan? 1 Kings 18:27 About noontime Elijah began mocking them. "You'll have to shout louder," he scoffed, "for surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or he is relieving himself. Or maybe he is away on a trip, or he is asleep and needs to be wakened!" [NLT] Paul was used by satan? Gal 5:11 And as for me, brothers, if I am still preaching that circumcision is necessary, why am I still being persecuted? If that were the case, my preaching about the cross would cause no offense whatever. 12 I wish the people who are bothering you [the Judaizers] would go the whole way and castrate themselves! [CJB] Okay, I got off subject. I couldn't help it.... Quote
Sonny Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 It is a spirit of superiority. Okay, I'll admit it, my flesh was involved here....After all, the flesh loves to be right. So good point.... Nevertheless, I do think that I understand the gospel. I learned it the hard way.... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 30, 2011 Moderators Posted June 30, 2011 The key issue here is this: When did Christ take the sins of the world into Himself? Two possible answers: A) Incarnation. The cross. Or add a third & 4th possibility C) Lamb slain srom the foundation of the world, Rev 13:8 D) Today - 1 Cor 15:31 Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 30, 2011 Moderators Posted June 30, 2011 Your gospel does not teach you respect for others Sonny. That in itself is enough of a deterent for me... That's because he's missing the other part of the gospel - Christ IN the believer! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 30, 2011 Moderators Posted June 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II I have no problem with Christ bearing my sin at the crucifixion Sonny. Stop it....Paul doesn't say this. He says that when Christ died, you died. Paul says YOU died in the humanity of Christ. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (1 Pe 2:24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 30, 2011 Moderators Posted June 30, 2011 YOU died 2000 years ago! "I die daily." 1 Cor 15:31 Quote
miz3 Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I have just read the last 24 posts between Twilight and Sonny. I found it very revealing. Sonny admits that he will not accept the Truth as Twilight has stated it because of his Pride even though Sonny knows right well that Twilight is correct! Quote
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