Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 I died with Christ the moment I chose Him to be my Savior AND Lord. Then why are you living? That life died forever. You must be confused? Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 He would be lying only if He calls me righteous WITHOUT ACCTUALLY MAKING ME RIGHTEOUS. That is what I have been trying to tell you for several years! He can't pronounce you righteous without ACTUALLY making you righteous. That's the OTHER part of the gospel that you keep ignoring! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 You are the one who is always dealing in metaphors, hidden meanings.... Look, if you don't understand what a metaphor is then everything you read will be reality to you. Matt 5:27 "You have heard that our fathers were told, `Do not commit adultery.'m 28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye makes you sin, gouge it out and throw it away! Better that you should lose one part of you than have your whole body thrown into hell.... Should you take this just as it reads? If so, why do you still have your right eye? You should have gouged it out by now. Why? Because every man on the face of this earth has at one time or another looked at a woman with lust. Again, Christ is trying to make a point here, but He isn't really serious about maiming your body. Rev 13:1 I saw a beast come up out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads. On its horns were ten royal crowns and on its heads blasphemous names. Again, not reality. Of course you'll say that beasts will come up out the ocean.... Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 He would be lying only if He calls me righteous WITHOUT ACCTUALLY MAKING ME RIGHTEOUS. That's not how God answered the demands of His law. Ellen White: "By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself." Ellen White tells me that God saved YOU, not by coming into your life and infusing you with righteousness, but by taking YOUR life from Adam into Himself and rewriting your history. That's the gospel. This is the basis of your salvation. Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 He would be lying only if He calls me righteous WITHOUT ACCTUALLY MAKING ME RIGHTEOUS.... He can't pronounce you righteous without ACTUALLY making you righteous. Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Quote: Matt 5:27 "You have heard that our fathers were told, `Do not commit adultery.'m 28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye makes you sin, gouge it out and throw it away! Better that you should lose one part of you than have your whole body thrown into hell.... You have a hard time knowing when the Bible is using metaphors and when it is not. When you get trapped you simply call it a metaphor, thus you hope that releases you from an impossible position which you cannot explain. That is not honest Biblical Study! As you have already admitted to us all, your Pride is what makes you do this. The Bible states that we should become humble like little children so that we can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I invit you to do this by laying aside your Pride and admit that you have been wrong. Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 When you get trapped you simply call it a metaphor, thus you hope that releases you from an impossible position which you cannot explain....As you have already admitted to us all, your Pride is what makes you do this. Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Now Sonny look at what I wrote and then look at what you wrote. What you wrote has nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. You keep saying I said something and that's not what I said. I didn't say that "I" had no sinful nature. Look at what I said. Read it carefully! You will see that what I said is far different than what you said I said! Is this too hard for you to grasp? You see this is your problem. You think to much in terms of metaphors. This is not difficult, if you just look at the FACTS! You are trying to make everything too complex by looking for metaphors, and hidden meanings and words behind the words. The Bible is not like that. The Bible is very open and clear. Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 What does metaphors have to do with you having or not having a sinful nature? Let's just keep to the subject matter.... Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Okay, I'll admit it, my flesh was involved here....After all, the flesh loves to be right....Nevertheless, I do think that I understand the gospel. You stated as we can see above that your "flesh was involved" because "the flesh loves to be right"! That can only mean one thing! Your flesh (Sonny) will win at any cost. Your flesh is to Prideful to admit it has been wrong! I did not misquote you at all. The quote is up there for all to see your exact words. You wrote that no one else did. I have been honest in quoting your very words. Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 What does metaphors have to do with you having or not having a sinful nature? Let's just keep to the subject matter.... NOTHING! I am not the one calling everything a metaphor you are the one who keeps making everything a metaphor when you are not able to deal with the Biblical Facts. Maybe you should take your own advice. Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Here's what you said: Quote: When you get trapped you simply call it a metaphor, thus you hope that releases you from an impossible position which you cannot explain....As you have already admitted to us all, your Pride is what makes you do this. My pride doesn't make me say everything is a metaphor. That's not what I said to Mark. I said that my pride can get in the way because I understand the gospel. It had nothing to do with metaphors. It had to do with understanding the gospel. Get it right! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 If God lays sins on Christ (as you would lay your cloths out on the bed) then monsters will come up out of the sea and Jesus demands us to gouge our eyes out if we look at a woman with lust. Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Sonny, Pride is Pride! You clearly stated that it was your Pride that "loved to be right"! Thus, your Pride wants to be "right" about the gospel; your Pride wants to be "right" about the metaphors; your Pride "wants to win" (those were your words Sonny); your Pride wants to be "right" about everything! Pride is a sinful disease. Pride pollutes everything a person does! Please Sonny let's be honest about our discussion of Nature of Jesus Christ! Please do not let "your admitted Pride" interfere with an honest discussion from the Bible! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Thus, your Pride wants to be "right" about the gospel; your Pride wants to be "right" about the metaphors... I didn't say that last part. This is the lying part....Stop it! Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Sonny, When God laid our sins on Jesus Christ at the Cross it was NOT a metaphor. It was an actual fact! That is what the Bible says. You keep wanting to label that Fact as a metaphor. Once again you are the one bringing up "metaphors". I am NOT! I am dealing only in FACT! I never once said any of this was a metaphor you are the only one so far saying these things are "metaphors". Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Please do not let "your admitted Pride" interfere with an honest discussion from the Bible! Okay, this is why some never admit to a mistake.....Why? Because if you admit you make mistakes you'll have holy joes, like miz3, using it as a tool to clobber it over your head....Such self-righteousness!!! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 When God laid our sins on Jesus Christ at the Cross it was NOT a metaphor. It was an actual fact! Stating it is a fact and not a metaphor means nothing to me. These broad statements are ridiculous. Prove it to me using the Bible....Prove it's not a metaphor. Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I just want you to be honest Sonny! I want you to be honest about the discussion. I don't really care whether you admit as you have already done that your Pride is all about winning and all about being right! What I want is for you to be honest and state that you and Jack S. have been/and are wrong about the gospel because it is NOT Biblical! That means stating that Jesus Christ did not receive our sins at the Incarnation but Jesus Christ did receive our sins at the Cross! I will have more respect for you if you do that then if you continue to let Pride rule your spirit! Quote
miz3 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Stating it is a fact and not a metaphor means nothing to me. These broad statements are ridiculous. Prove it to me using the Bible....Prove it's not a metaphor. 1. Can you prove it is a metaphor! I believe the burden of proof is on your shoulders, Sonny because you are the one asserting that it is a metaphor. You have yet to do this! 2. Twilight and I have given you reams of Biblical Proof that the Cross is FACT! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep [metaphor], have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him [metaphor] the iniquity [our bent to self] of us all. The primary meaning of "iniquity" is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. This is what makes all sinning possible. So what does the metaphor, laid on Him, mean? Go back to verse 5: "But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed." That metaphor simply means that Christ was charged with our bent to self...our love of self. However, Isaiah doesn't tell us how God did this. Paul does. Go to Paul! Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep [metaphor], have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him [metaphor] the iniquity [our bent to self] of us all. The primary meaning of "iniquity" is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. This is what makes all sinning possible. So what does the metaphor, laid on Him, mean? Go back to verse 5: "But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed." That metaphor simply means that Christ was charged with our bent to self...our love of self. However, Isaiah doesn't tell us how God did this. Paul does. Go to Paul! Both Romans 6:6 & 7:4 clearly state that "we died in Christ". Who are "we"? Sinners, indwelt with our bent to self (iniquity). How did "we" get into Christ? That's the question. The only place this could have happened was at the incarnation. Quote
Sonny Posted July 1, 2011 Author Posted July 1, 2011 Both Romans 6:6 & 7:4 clearly state that "we died in Christ". Who are "we"? Sinners, indwelt with our bent to self (iniquity). How did "we" get into Christ? That's the question. Even if you don't believe that it was at the incarnation, one thing does come out clearly: Since "we" were "in Christ" then Christ had in Him our bent to self (iniquity) because OUR humanity was in Him. Quote
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