WAS JOHN HARVEY KELLOGG A PANTHEIST?

[miz3]

I have always been told that John Harvey Kellogg was kicked out of the SDA Church because he was a pantheist and was espousing his pantheism in his book the Living Temple!

What I would like to see is where in this book "The Living Temple" Kellogg displays his pantheistic beliefs.

In other words where is the evidence that actually convicts John Harvey Kellogg of being and espousing pantheistic heresy?

[Gustave]

From reading his book cover to cover I can assure you he wasn't a Pantheist....

...Kellogg's "problem", as far as the SDA denom was concerned.

...Was that he came to believe in the Trinity.

...That was a big NO, NO.

Living Temple, page 29

But' says one, 'this thought destroys the personality of God. Do you not believe in a personal God?' Most certainly. An infinite, divine, personal being is essential religion. Worship requires someone to love, to obey, to trust. Belief in a personal God is the very core of the Christian Religion. The conception of God as the All-Energy, the infinite power, an all-pervading Presence, is too vast for the human mind to grasp; there must be something more tangible, more restricted, upon which to center the mind in worship. It is for this reason that Christ came to us in the image of God's personality, the second Adam, to show us by his life of love and self-sacrifice the character and the personality of God. We can approach God ONLY through Christ

Living Temple, page 32

Here is a most marvelous description of God. His hand, his arm, his bosom are mentioned. He is described as 'sitting on the circle of the earth,' he metes out heaven with the span, he holds the waters in the hollow of his hand; so there can be no question that God is a definite, real personal being. A mere abstract principle, a law, a force could not have a hand, an arm. God is a person, though too great for us to comprehend, as Job says, 'God is great and we know him not

Living Temple ( 1904 ) page 5,6

A distinct and earnest purpose in the preparation of this volume has been to present a true philosophy of life in showing man's utter and momentary dependence upon a personal and beneficent Creator for all he is and all that it is possible for him to be, even for the performance of his bodily functions, for the creation and care of each individual cell of his body, and for the food and other necessaries required to maintain his existence. Such an expression seems necessary at the present time, not only as a means of instruction in right living, but as a protection against the flood of mysticism, which, under the name of theosophy, pantheism, so-called Christian science, metaphysics, and various other guises, is deluging the world, even insinuating itself into the teaching of popular religious teachers, and tainting a considerable part of the religious teachers, and tainting a considerable part of the religious literature of the day

Living Temple ( Miracle of life page 40,41 )

Man in his ignorance, in his efforts to account for the phenomena about him by so-called natural causes, in other words, in a vain and futile attempt to get along without God, to leave deity out of his philosophy, has actually made a deity of that hypothetical abstraction, nature, and has ascribed to nature the very powers and qualities which he has denied to God. Neglecting the real, the true God, men have thus erected a false god and have become idolaters in their worship of nature. Various forms of pantheism have thus become widely diffused, even among Christian people, and pantheistic and often heathen philosophies have insinuated themselves into the beliefs of orthodoxy. The only antidote for these false doctrines is the recognition of that most fundamental of all religious beliefs, namely, that there is one great source of all life and power, Jehovah, the 'God and Father of us all

It goes on and on and on - Kellogg was simply a new believer in the Doctrine of the Trinity....

...And THAT in and of itself was heretical belief within SDAism at that time.

"EVERYTHING" specific to SDAism was founded on the teaching that "GOD" had a body like that of a man....

...Thus God is a PERSON, the PERSON = PERSONALITY = "body".

...The Sanctuary AND I.J. teaching of SDAism was FOUNDED on this concept.

...So when Kellogg made statements to the effect "GOD" HIMSELF ( as in God the Holy Spirit )....

...Was EVERYWHERE Ellen's bottom jaw hit the wood flooring in her kitchen - HARD.

It isn't any more difficult than this....

[miz3]

So why I am I told the canard about pantheism?

[John317]

Kellogg's views tended toward Pantheism. Pantheism is the belief that everything is God. Kellogg's view, rather, was that God is to be found in everything. He said that when we eat food, we are tasting God; that God is in the water we bathe in and in the water we drink; and that when we smell a rose, we are really smelling God. He said that God is in the trees and in the boots we wear.

[John317]

From reading his book cover to cover I can assure you he wasn't a Pantheist....

...Kellogg's "problem", as far as the SDA denom was concerned.

...Was that he came to believe in the Trinity.

...That was a big NO, NO.

This is untrue. Kellogg's problem was that he believed and taught false doctrines in regard to the Trinity.

There were other problems but that is the main one. He was also claiming to be supporting Ellen White but in actuality, Kellogg was doing everything to destroy people's confidence in her.

There are many books written on the topic and these are full of documentation if people are interested in studying the topc.

Every letter that passed between Ellen White and J.H. Kellogg is available to close inspection. He was like a son to her till the very end; he lived in her home for a number of years; and she helped him get his medical training.

J.H. Kellogg finally came to the point where he had no faith in the Bible as God's inspired word. Ellen White spent many years trying to help him not to lose his faith.

[Dr. Waite]

Panthesism is a teaching that Nature is God and that a divine presence may be sensed within matter and energy.

Pantheism is the view that the natural universe is divine, the proper object of reverence; or the view that the natural universe is pervaded with divinity. Negatively, it is the idea that we do not need to look beyond the universe for the proper object of ultimate respect.

Consider that the following is an anti-pantheism biblical text:

"The LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the LORD,

but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice" (1st Kings 19:11-12).

The creature creating the trinity doctrine was Satan. The trinity doctrine is the most subtle error ever created by Satan. It is so subtle that it has deceived many of the most able elect. If there is error in that doctrine, and there certainly is, then one worships the creator of that doctrine and his creature error. The trinity doctrine is pure pantheism because it is idolatry. How is the trinity doctrine idolatry? Because it commits the error of saying that the Holy Spirit is other than the sacrificed life, soul and breath of the Son of God at His Incarnation. It states that the Holy Spirit is a channel for the benefits Christ's sacrifice on the cross afforded, but it is grossly errant in neglecting to teach that those benefits would not have accrued had the Son not "laid aside/emptied Himself" of certain attributes at His Incarnation in order to be able to send us the impartation of His life, soul and breath which symbolizes His own personal Holy Spirit, which is what He laid aside in order to send it to us as His crowning gift for the express purpose of regenerating us back into the image of God.

Inspiration by way of Scripture and Ellen White, has defined clearly just who and what the Holy Spirit is, and to attribute that person to anyone other than the clearly defined person He is, is to commit idolatry and worship another god, other than the Son of God who made the great sacrifice of yielding up, laying aside and emptying Himself, in order to send us something never theretofore available to man as it was after the Incarnation, and that SOMETHING is the impartation of the Holy Spirit mind of the Son living and dwelling in the minds and hearts of men. That is how God, under the New Covenant, places His law in the hearts (minds) of men. He sends His Holy Spirit mind to live and dwell within us.

"The Holy Spirit is the breath of spiritual life in the soul. The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ. It imbues the receiver with the attributes of Christ. Only those who are thus taught of God, those who possess the inward working of the Spirit, and in whose life the Christ-life is manifested, are to stand as representative men, to minister in behalf of the church." Desire of Ages, 805.

The ten commandment law of God, the Everlasting Covenant, and the New Covenant placing of the law in our hearts, are all contingent and inseparably tied together.

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

The word "LORD" is in all caps. It is God the Father who is speaking here.

[miz3]

This is untrue. Kellogg's problem was that he believed and taught false doctrines in regard to the Trinity.

OK, let me see if I have this correct.

1. JH Kellogg was not a pantheist.

2. It was actually JH Kellogg's views on the Trinity that got him kicked out of SDA.

3. So everyone I have ever asked before this as to why Kellogg was kicked out of SDA has been lying to me when they say it was because he was a pantheist and the book "Living Temple" is the proof of this fact!

Given the above why then would pastors and church leaders tell me Kellogg was a pantheist and that is why he was kicked out of SDA?

Something is not adding up!

[miz3]

My understanding of Pantheism is:

1. Nature is God!

2. There is no living being whose presence is in the created things.

3. Since Nature is God then we are to worship Nature alone.

That has been my understanding of Pantheism.

[Dr. Waite]

Is not the trinity doctrine saying that the godhead (which is the greek word for divine nature) is GOD? i.e teaching that divine nature is GOD. So, then wherever divine nature is then GOD is there and we are to worship his presence which is his divine nature?

Is this pantheism?

[miz3]

Pantheism does not believe in a "personal God" or a "creator God"!

That is Pantheism does not believe in a Creator! It does however believe that NATURE is the eternal divinity that should be worshiped, adored, respected, etc.

[phkrause]

OK, let me see if I have this correct.

1. JH Kellogg was not a pantheist.

2. It was actually JH Kellogg's views on the Trinity that got him kicked out of SDA.

3. So everyone I have ever asked before this as to why Kellogg was kicked out of SDA has been lying to me when they say it was because he was a pantheist and the book "Living Temple" is the proof of this fact!

Given the above why then would pastors and church leaders tell me Kellogg was a pantheist and that is why he was kicked out of SDA?

Something is not adding up!

miz3 I think you missed the post by John to you! Which was right above the one your responding to here. John is saying that JHK was a pantheist, check it out.

[miz3]

There is a huge difference between saying that:

Nature is God. That a personal, creator God does not exist. That since Nature is God we are bound to worship, praise, give glory, and honor to Nature alone.

And

To say that God created nature and everything. That this God is a personal God to His creation. That God resides within His creation because He is a personal God and also because God in nature is the Power that makes all the creation not only exist but also to function and have life regardless of animate or inanimate!

I see a great deal of difference in these definitions. The first definition is clearly Pantheistic. The second definition is certainly the Bible view of Truth.

The question is which view of things did JH Kellogg have?

I have been told that he took the first view. However, I have not seen any evidence whatsoever to support this view.

I have seen evidence to support that JH Kellogg believed the second definition.

Again, why then am I being told that JH Kellog was kicked out of SDA because he was a pantheist. Is the SDA Church been in a giant cover up lie all these years?

Was JH Kellogg kicked out for other reasons?

[Dr. Waite]

Pantheism does not believe in a "personal God" or a "creator God"!

That is Pantheism does not believe in a Creator! It does however believe that NATURE is the eternal divinity that should be worshiped, adored, respected, etc.

Is this "NATURE" both seen and unseen?

[Light Fox]

Kellogg's views tended toward Pantheism. Pantheism is the belief that everything is God. Kellogg's view, rather, was that God is to be found in everything. He said that when we eat food, we are tasting God; that God is in the water we bathe in and in the water we drink; and that when we smell a rose, we are really smelling God. He said that God is in the trees and in the boots we wear.

[John317]

Is not the trinity doctrine saying that the godhead (which is the greek word for divine nature) is GOD? i.e teaching that divine nature is GOD. So, then wherever divine nature is then GOD is there and we are to worship his presence which is his divine nature?

Is this pantheism?

The Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. As Ellen White said, "There are three living persons in the heavenly trio." This trio is the same as the Godhead, for Ellen White also stated that there are three persons in the eternal Godhead.

Notice Col. 2: 9-- In Christ lives all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily.

Is there any more of the Godhead than "all the fullness of the Godhead"?

"Godhead" here is Deity, or the divine essence. Theotetos. It's not talking about the attributes of deity but its very nature. Compare Heb. 1: 3 where it says that Christ is the express image of the Father's person. It means Christ is the perfect copy of God the Father. It is saying the same thing that John 1: 1 (last clause) says: What God was, the Word was. Whatever you can say about God, is true also of the Word.

[miz3]

Kellogg himself denied that he was a pantheist because his views were not orthodox pantheism - they "tended towards it.

So we kicked out JH Kellogg "because his views TENDED TOWARD PANTHEISM?

Define what you mean by "tended toward pantheism"!

Just exactly how far did Kellogg go?

[Tom Wetmore]

Apparently it didn't matter. We see the 19th Century Adventist version of the Minority Report.

[Dr. Waite]

quote by John 317:

"Godhead" here is Deity, or the divine essence. Theotetos. It's not talking about the attributes of deity but its very nature. Compare Heb. 1: 3 where it says that Christ is the express image of the Father's person. It means Christ is the perfect copy of God the Father. It is saying the same thing that John 1: 1 (last clause) says: What God was, the Word was. Whatever you can say about God, is true also of the Word."

Hebrews 1: 4 states: "Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they".

I agree with you: Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God was "made" so much better than the angels and has an "inheritance" from his Father as a result.

[ClubV12]

"The battle nearly killed me. I saw what was coming in, and I saw that our brethren were blind. They did not realize the danger." EGW

That pretty well sums up the matter, apparently some STILL don't realize the danger! Very cunning approach, God is in the flower, is that beautiful or what? Under that flower lurks a man eating trap, the danger unrecognized.

[John317]

Hebrews 1: 4 states: "Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they".

I agree with you: Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God was "made" so much better than the angels and has an "inheritance" from his Father as a result.

The Greek word is ginomenos/ ginomai (Strongs#1096). It is best translated "He became," not "He was made." Compare Phil. 2: 6-11.

Notice that it says Jesus inherited a name far superior to the angels. What name did Jesus inherit? "God." See Hebrews. 1: 6,8, 10. It is talking about Christ's essence, or nature. By nature, Jesus Christ was/is God. Compare Heb. 1: 3; John 1: 1; Col. 1:17; 2:9.

The whole emphasis of Heb. 1 is that Christ is superior to the angels. He is superior to the angels because He is God.

That is precisely Ellen White's meaning in DA 530, where she says that "in Christ is life original, unborrowed, underived." Christ's life was original with Himself-- He did not borrow it nor did He derive it from anyone outside of Himself.

[miz3]

So we kicked out JH Kellogg "because his views TENDED TOWARD PANTHEISM?

Define what you mean by "tended toward pantheism"!

Just exactly how far did Kellogg go?

[Gustave]

Ellen White, Review and Herald, 1906

He who denies the personality of God and of his Son Jesus Christ, IS denying God and Christ. “If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.” If YOU continue to believe and obey the truths you FIRST EMBRACED regarding the personality of the Father and the Son, you will be joined together with him in love. There will be seen that union for which Christ prayed just before his trial and crucifixion

The "new teaching" that caused this paragraph and MANY others from SDA religious authority was,

...."God the Hol Spirit" Vs. God's Holy Spirit.

The "Truth" Ellen speaks of that was initially taught and embraced was the ONLY thing it could be....

...I.E. God has a real body ( PERSONALITY ).

...And God was literally in His Sanctuary in heaven.

Kellogg, page 40,41

Man in his ignorance, in his efforts to account for the phenomena about him by so-called natural causes, in other words, in a vain and futile attempt to get along without God, to leave deity out of his philosophy, has actually made a deity of that hypothetical abstraction, NATURE, and has ascribed to nature the very powers and qualities which he has denied to God. Neglecting the real, the true God, men have thus erected a false god and have become idolaters in their worship of nature. Various forms of pantheism have thus become widely diffused, even among Christian people, and pantheistic and often heathen philosophies have insinuated themselves into the beliefs of orthodoxy. The only antidote for these false doctrines is the recognition of that most fundamental of all religious beliefs, namely, that there is one great source of all life and power, Jehovah, the 'God and Father of us all

In case ANY have missed it the above is Kellogg REPUDIATING what SDA apologists have been charging him with...

...All it takes is to read Kellogg's "Living Temple" OR "Miracle of Life".

...To see the WHOLE BEEF early Adventism had with Kellogg.

...WAS his new found belief in the Trinity.

Specifically "GOD the Holy Spirit".

...Dr Kellogg writes to Daniels in an attempt to show where he believes his contemporaries are confused.

Kellogg's letter to Daniels, Oct 25, 1903

You, Elder Daniels, and others have spoken about a fine line of distinction, but I could not quite see what it was, but this statement by Sister White makes it clear to me. The difference is this: When we say God is in the tree, the word 'God' is understood in that the Godhead is in the tree, God the Father, God the Son, and God, the Holy Spirit, whereas the proper understanding in order that wholesome conceptions should be preserved in our minds, is that God the Father sits upon his throne in heaven where God the Son is also; while God's life, or Spirit or presence is the all pervading power which is carrying out the will of God in all the universe

Kellogg ABSOLUTELY nailed the SDA duplicity on it's head with that....

...This is exactly was WHAT was going on - Kellogg had become to believe in the Trinity.

...And as such was starting to grasp the concept.

THAT it was the simple NATURE, essence or substance that was "God"....

...And that this Substance was CO-EQUALLY owned by the distinct 3 Person's.

...I.E. "God" the Father, "God" the Son & "God" the Holy Spirit.

In Ellen's ( and the other Pioneer's minds ) God was ONLY the Father - in the ultimate sense....

...And while all of them had no problems in using a personal pronoun for the Holy Spirit.

...It was ABSLUTELY understood it was not to be taken to mean the Holy Spirit was God Like ONLY GOD WAS GOD.

[John317]

So we kicked out JH Kellogg "because his views TENDED TOWARD PANTHEISM?

Define what you mean by "tended toward pantheism"!

Just exactly how far did Kellogg go?

The answer will be found in the letters that Ellen White wrote to Dr. Kellogg and to others about the issue.

[John317]

...Kellogg ABSOLUTELY nailed the SDA duplicity on it's head with that....

...This is exactly was WHAT was going on - Kellogg had become to believe in the Trinity.

...And as such was starting to grasp the concept.

Kellogg's view of the Trinity was wrong. He spiritualized the Trinity.

He said that God is in the trees, in food, in water, in boots, etc. He said when we taste food, we are tasting God; and when we smell a flower, we are smelling God. He meant this in the literal sense. All this is false.

[John317]

quote by John 317:

"Godhead" here is Deity, or the divine essence. Theotetos. It's not talking about the attributes of deity but its very nature. Compare Heb. 1: 3 where it says that Christ is the express image of the Father's person. It means Christ is the perfect copy of God the Father. It is saying the same thing that John 1: 1 (last clause) says: What God was, the Word was. Whatever you can say about God, is true also of the Word."

I agree with you:

If you agree with me, what does it mean to say that "WHAT GOD WAS, THE WORD WAS"? Have you really thought this through?

It means that if you can say of God that He is "self-existent" and infinite and without beginning, so you can say also of the Word. The pre-incarnate Christ was omnipotent.