No Prophetic Time after 1844

[hch]

I am sorry; but the spirit of prophecy is not the Bible. For some reason, you seem to have a tough time here matching up Bible text with what you say the spirit of prophecy means. Use of ellipses won't help your case either. The spirit of prophecy points to the Bible. The Bible does not say prophecy will be repeated in the sense you depict with all these new numbers and dates. That is a distortion of the lesser light, which leads to a decided falsehood that we say is "Biblical."

Brother,

I accepted your apology long before you offered it. And I hope that you do not think me brash or rude as I am being candid without any intent to harm God's people. But it is time to agitate for truth. And anything that is not of God needs to be set aside or it will bind us to the world when we need to be at liberty to give our all the Jesus. And to give the message the right sound while we have time.

Let's face it. Some things have crept into the Church since 1844 and it is an affront on Adventists who "have need of nothing" to be told that they have been duped by Satan and are unaware that he has turned their understanding of the Spirit of prophecy around to mean what it does not mean. And when I turn it back to what it states to show the errors the light is too blinding.

Will it be any less blinding when the case is made from Scripture? No! It will be more so for the word of God cuts as a two edged sword when it is wielded to sever the bone from the marrow and cherished sin from folly.

But it is unfortunate that I should have to lay the same foundation with each person that I encounter and waste so much time going over the same ground so many times. When I gave up my nice job to serve God full time, He took me through the trials that I needed. I almost starved to death because i did not have money to buy food. I lost my family. I lost my self-esteem that goes with having a prestigious job with a significant income. And now in my 61st year, I am working in the field for 1/3 of what I used to make. I'm struggling to keep 2 children in SDA Church School and I have been compelled to move into my mom's spare room.

None of that is to complain, but to say this. When I get up at 6:30 AM and don't get back home until after 8:30 PM, I don't have much time to plow the same ground over and over again and still get other things done that need not to be undone.

I have written 6 books on Bible prophecy.

1) Defying Destiny strictly Bible with no Spirit of prophecy. follows Daniel verse by verse through chapter 7 or so. With so much Scripture, it overwhelmed most people. They are not educated in the Bible.

2) Daniel's Apocalyptic Code revealed. 400+ pages includes the Spirit of prophecy in a verse by verse commentary on Daniel. To redundant. Even Sda's loose the point that is being made by including the entire quote and a dozen variations with minor nuances.

3)Put-Out The Light: Book 2 with 100+ pages removed. The complaint from SDA's shifted. Yes it is easier reading, but the SOP is out of context. Go figure in context and complete it is BORING and shortened, it is out of context.

4)The Last Church Meets the Obama-Nation. short and to the point. not a full message book but enough to get an interest generated. The Criticism - the title is too political. When Bible prophecy meets the powers that be prophecy identifies those political powers for what they are. "God sets up kings and removes them."

5)Echoes of Doomsday (Earthquake, Tsunami, Meltdown, and the Sunday-Law Solution. To Current for a church that has not kept up with Bible prophecy and has become accustomed to resting on their laurels. But it is slowly making an impact.

6) Steps To Christ in modern English.

Almost 2,000 pages to explain everything we need to know. Pose tough questions and give Bible and Spirit of Prophecy in put and still a need to spend countless hours laying the foundation over and over again.

Christian Regards

[hch]

...the spirit of prophecy is not the Bible. For some reason, you seem to have a tough time here matching up Bible text with what you say the spirit of prophecy means. Use of ellipses won't help your case either. The spirit of prophecy points to the Bible. The Bible does not say prophecy will be repeated in the sense you depict with all these new numbers and dates. That is a distortion of the lesser light, which leads to a decided falsehood that we say is "Biblical."

Here is some Bible:

Nebuchadnezzar was told: "Thou art this head of gold."

Was he symbolically the head of gold in Daniel 2?

[Overaged]

This is not a message to the world, the SINGLE target is Seventh-day Adventists.

Your posts on this thread are a testimony to just how confusing this delusion is.

This is an extremely important point for this discussion; although I would add that hch has also posted on this forum an amazing testimony of Christ in his life, so I would personally like to say my opinions from now on here in a light that addresses the ideas; rather than the person. There are some people who are quite sincere in their seeking for truth; yet who are convinced of this falsehood...

hch; what materials are you using to study and come to these conclusions? Where did you first become aware of this teaching you are posting about? I'd be interested to hear some background on this from you.

[Overaged]

I accepted your apology long before you offered it.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

...

I hope you will find this helpful. Thank you for writing. God bless.

William Fagal

hch, what are your conclusions on the basis of this letter and this information?

[hch]

The 1335 days as well as the 1290 days take us to the time of the end, which is when Daniel's book was to be unsealed. So those time periods don't reach beyond 1844 and certainly not after 1893. Daniel will be "standing in his lot" from now on until the second coming. But that doesn't mean the 1335 days reach to that time. The 1290 days are from 508 AD to 1798. The 1335 days reach from 508 AD to 1843. I don't believe there's any evidence that those time periods will again be fulfilled. I just don't find any evidence for it in either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy.

But I don't have a close mind to it. I am open to evidence and reasoning in the Scriptures. I just have not yet seen any evidence for it that I consider persuasive.

[John317]

...Here is some Bible:

Nebuchadnezzar was told: "Thou art this head of gold."

Was he symbolically the head of gold in Daniel 2?

Since he was king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold because he represented the kingdom of Babylon. But the head of gold was more than Nebuchadnezzar.

[John317]

The 1335 days as well as the 1290 days take us to the time of the end, which is when Daniel's book was to be unsealed. So those time periods don't reach beyond 1844 and certainly not after 1893. Daniel will be "standing in his lot" from now on until the second coming. But that doesn't mean the 1335 days reach to that time. The 1290 days are from 508 AD to 1798. The 1335 days reach from 508 AD to 1843. I don't believe there's any evidence that those time periods will again be fulfilled. I just don't find any evidence for it in either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy.

But I don't have a close mind to it. I am open to evidence and reasoning in the Scriptures. I just have not yet seen any evidence for it that I consider persuasive.

Originally Posted By: hch

The Spirit of prophecy passages do not stop with Daniel standing in his lot. They link to Christ standing for His people, which is His Second Advent at the end of the time of the end.

"Daniel's lot" refers to 1798 and afterwards, including 1844 and even into our day. Daniel is still standing in his lot. His book is unveiled and continually being more and more understood. But that also includes the time when Michael shall stand up for His people, the end of human probation. Even then Daniel will be standing in his lot. The 1335 days and the 1290 days reach to the time of the end, and Michael stands up during the time of the end.

I'm not seeing how this means that the 1335 days are fulfilled after 1844 or after 1893.

[ClubV12]

HCH says,

"...make a noble claim that the Bible only should be our guide

and then a few posts later another poster says, you're twisting the Spirit of Prophecy so much we need to go to the Bible only."

That confusion is just ONE of the many problems I find with this false theology. The various people who follow the basic "1335 Futurist" concept are all over the map on how they apply it! I didn't find any two that were in agreement on the details, or even the broad concept.

You guys need to have some kind of convention or something where the "brethren" can sit down and work this thing out. Like Seventh-day Adventists did, until they were all in perfect harmony. But I understand why you can't do that, in a word, "fear". Your unwilling to risk termination of your Adventist membership. There is a lack of courage to "come out of the closet" and proclaim this message boldly. Truth can take a bullet, and live. The work is done in the shadows, behind the keyboard, it's fruit is "fear".

"Bring it" to the GC, get some signs, march in front of the place, write them letters, preach it in the parking lot (not inside the church please, have some respect). If it's THAT important, shout it from the roof tops. But theres the key, IS IT "that important"? I think not, it's not relevant to salvation, it's a side issue causing division. The counsel of the Spirit of Prophecy on such issues is to present it to the brethren. If there is no harmony you are to put it away, let it go. If you REALLY believe in Sister White, that is exactly what you would do. Or, "bring it", get it out in the open, let's deal with it. Oh wait, we did, nothing there, moving on...

[hch]

...

hch; what materials are you using to study and come to these conclusions? Where did you first become aware of this teaching you are posting about? I'd be interested to hear some background on this from you.

First it was the Bible and the Bible only. Then a concordance. Then I purchased a ton of history books and encyclopedias that stacked from the floor to the ceiling a few times.

And lastly, after the Lord had led me to a basic understanding, I purchased the EGW CD to compare my findings in Scripture to the lessor light.

When God called me to study Daniel, I was impressed that our canned SDA Bible studies were lacking, but i did not understand that feeling.

I was very hesitant to study alone and approached thousands of SDA's to study with me. The responses were: to busy, I like what the church teaches and don't see a need to go beyond that, I am not qualified, you are not qualified, and so it went.

While the head elder at my local SDA Church, I answered the call and ran everything I discovered past the Pastor.

He frequently commented and have you considered this or that... I would go home and study some more. And go back to the pastor.

I left my full time job and spent 8-18 hours a day studying, praying and noting everything for 2-3 years.

I went broke so I had to get a full time job. Put studying on a part time basis and caught up on bills.

Then I realized that my pastor was not trying to help me with my studies in Daniel, but he was brushing me off. Then I pondered all the studying that I was putting into Daniel ALONE. And I rationalized that since I had failed to get others to study with me, I could be going out on a limb alone. And I thanked God for calling me and discontinued the study.

About a week later, I was impressed to study Daniel. My notes were detailed and my Bible was cross referenced so thoroughly that I could follow topics in both directions.

But when I picked up Daniel after bowing out, my notes and cross references made NO sense. Texts that I had linked to others were unrelated. I couldn't understand the basics. I remembered various conclusions from the study, but could not see how I had reached those conclusions based on the evidence documented in my margins or notes.

Then it hit me, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away"

I had a season of repentance that lasted 3-4 days. it is one thing to study because you think it is interesting, or to not study because you loose interest; but it is quite another to be called and turn down the call and feel like you are outside of the will of God. I hope none of you ever have to encounter that feeling of hopelessness.

Then the Lord impressed me to pick up my marked Bible and study Daniel again. It made perfect sense. And I knew that the Lord had been merciful upon me. He understood that i did not want to go on a limb all alone and that I had only stopped studying for fear of going on a limb alone rather than rebelling against His calling.

Since then, God has added light unto light and I have lost my worldly possessions. The bank took the house and the day the notice came, my wife took the kids while I was out. I refused to move. I prayed and fasted and stayed in my home.

When it sold at the courthouse. I stayed put. The new owner graciously gave me 30-days to vacate. But i did not have gas money to move our stuff out. So when the time ended, I pleaded for more time and stayed another 2 weeks.

On Tuesday morning (knowing I had to be out Friday) I went to a 6 AM prayer breakfast when I should have been packing. At prayer breakfast, I shared part of my situation.

A young man who had not planned on attending that morning because he had worked so late the night b 4 couldn't sleep after 4AM that morning so he decided to attend. he asked if his parents could look at the house. They looked Wednesday and paid cash for it Friday. The Lord blessed me with a sellers fee that was more than I could have possibly gotten if I had sold the house and avoided foreclosure.

Though I appreciated the SDA buyers and the money to move with, I told them that Jesus was coming soon and that this was not the time to invest in property. This was the time to sell our property and to invest in God's work. I gave them a copy of my last book.

I moved from that house and had money enough to pay the kids tuition and start over. The money that should have lasted 6 months, went too fast. But I persisted in writing my last book, Echoes of Doomsday and doing a meal a day or every other if I wasn't too hungry.

Then on April 27, 2011 I published Echoes of Doomsday and ordered 30 copies. Went to prayer meeting that evening to find the church closed because of bad weather. A massive tornado ripped through the neighborhood that I had so recently been forced to vacate and all of this on the very day I published Echoes of Doomsday that warns of the increase in natural disasters by wind, fire, flood, and earthquake that have struck America since the abomination that makes desolate was set up on 9/20/01 and why that is so. What had been my house, lost its entire roof.

Why did God move me instead of seeing me through the storm? My younger children 7 and 13 were terrified of the thought of being in a tornado. I had often reassured them that TN does not get tornadoes and God will take care of us, we don't have to worry when those bad storm warnings are on the radio or tv. And when we saw the aftermath of the storm, we knew that God took care of us. God cared for little ones that had real fears. And I knew it is true! "Though 10000 fall at thy right hand, it shall not come neigh thee."

The new owners had remodeled, but it was empty and uninsured. They had a new temp roof on in 3 days, but with the black mold issue in the basement, they then decided to raise the house and level the lot.

Then it hit me. I had shared my studies in Daniel with every house on that street except 3. All of those houses sustained minor damage. But the three that I missed because I ran out of books or they weren't home or whatever were totally destroyed. One 2 story brick was wiped off its cement slab so thoroughly that there was no rubble left in the yard. and 3 people were in that house when it happened. All with serious injuries but nothing life threatening.

Too little to late. I learned that I cannot pick and choose who to share the gospel with. The 3 families I missed could all have died. After the disasters people do need help. But they need to know that disasters are coming rapidly one after another and Jesus is Coming Soon and very soon.

So I am bold now to say what I know because God called me to the study and I know what I know because it is true and the people that I meet today might not be here tomorrow to get the message.

[cheddar]

Why don’t you show some biblical evidence to support your historical beliefs?!?

Short answer – there is none.

In my bible it says that at the ‘time of the end’ the king of the north and south have their final battle.

You know that time – it’s when the daily is taken away , the abomination of desolation is set up and the king of the north sets up his palace in Jerusalem.

Gee willikers, I don’t remember reading anything about this in my history book! The ‘time of the end’ began in 1798 (so the experts say) – please show where all this happened.

Daniel talks about two generalized time periods:

- the time of the end and

- the time of trouble

I think most adventists would agree that the ‘time of trouble’ is the time when the 7 last plagues are poured out and this time period only lasts a few years at most.

So why does the ‘time of the end’ last over 200 years?!?

The ‘time of the end’ is similar to the 'time of trouble' and it doesn’t last 200 years.

Why don’t you take them apples to GC – I’m pretty sure they could care less.

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

...Here is some Bible:

Nebuchadnezzar was told: "Thou art this head of gold."

Was he symbolically the head of gold in Daniel 2?

Since he was king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold because he represented the kingdom of Babylon. But the head of gold was more than Nebuchadnezzar.

Dear John 317

That is a stock answer. It is not wrong, but is it right?

As SDA's we teach that because Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold, "he represented the kingdom of Babylon. But the head of gold was more than Nebuchadnezzar."

Don't miss this though it is starting slow, it is important. If you get lost here, other things will be more difficult.

Nebuchadnezzar was told:

"The tree that thou sawest...It is thou, O king," (Daniel 4:20-22)

Was he symbolically the great tree in Daniel 4?

[John317]

Chedder, Christ could have come over a hundred years ago. Similarly God could have taken Israel directly into the Promised Land. Christ is waiting for the church to be ready for Him to come take His people home. So the "time of the end" is the time between 1798 and Christ's return.

When you consider the time that this world has been here, 200 years is like a flash in a pan. But remember that time could have been as little as 50-80 years. It is not God's fault that time has lingered as it has.

The real question is: Do I-- do you, do we-- really want Christ to come? What are we doing about it?

[hch]

"Daniel's lot" refers to 1798 and afterwards, including 1844 and even into our day. Daniel is still standing in his lot. His book is unveiled and continually being more and more understood. But that also includes the time when Michael shall stand up for His people, the end of human probation. Even then Daniel will be standing in his lot. The 1335 days and the 1290 days reach to the time of the end, and Michael stands up during the time of the end.

I'm not seeing how this means that the 1335 days are fulfilled after 1844 or after 1893.

[cheddar]

Chedder, Christ could have come over a hundred years ago. Similarly God could have taken Israel directly into the Promised Land. Christ is waiting for the church to be ready for Him to come take His people home. So the "time of the end" is the time between 1798 and Christ's return.

When you consider the time that this world has been here, 200 years is like a flash in a pan. But remember that time could have been as little as 50-80 years. It is not God's fault that time has lingered as it has.

The real question is: Do I-- do you, do we-- really want Christ to come? What are we doing about it?

No royal palace of an evil conquering king has been built in Jerusalem in the past 200 years!

Therefore if no fulfillment can be found in the past it must be in the future.

Adventists have vilianized and demonized the word 'future' and I'm tired of having unsubstantiated historical beliefs shoved down my throat.

[Overaged]

Too little to late. I learned that I cannot pick and choose who to share the gospel with. The 3 families I missed could all have died. After the disasters people do need help. But they need to know that disasters are coming rapidly one after another and Jesus is Coming Soon and very soon.

So I am bold now to say what I know because God called me to the study and I know what I know because it is true and the people that I meet today might not be here tomorrow to get the message.

Thanks for sharing all that hch...I appreciate your candidness here.

You know; I don't really doubt that you sense God calling you. I guess that in looking to my own experience, and that of others that I do have some concerns about how you are interpreting His call. While you make some interesting connections with some of your life experiences, I don't see how most of what you posted would explain, or prove, what you are saying about the 1335.

You stated that you had an "impression" that the SDA's teaching on the book of Daniel, in particular, the 1335 was "canned" and this impression is not proven to be from God. I have had similar impressions that I later found to be totally wrong.

It's good that you want to point people to Jesus; and you don't want to miss anyone; but the way you connect your ideas to natural disasters in your area may indeed be just as canned as you said SDA teachings were/are.

I want to go into more details about Daniel "standing in his lot;" but I am out of time and energy for tonight. I'll be back.

[Overaged]

Adventists have vilianized and demonized the word 'future' and I'm tired of having unsubstantiated historical beliefs shoved down my throat.

Who is shoving what down your throat? it's your choice to believe or not. Certainly, you have proved nothing about any of these "unsubstantiated" facts.

[ClubV12]

HCH says,

"the 70-weeks of years through the gospel going to the Gentiles

and the 70 literal weeks repeated 7 times beginning 31 May 1998

the fulfillment of the last 1260, 1290, 1335-days of Daniel 12

the last pope is in office in his 7th year (the number of completeness)

The 4th king from the earth is in office Daniel 7:17

The little time of trouble began 9/11/01 and is in year 10

America's financial meltdown is preparing for the implementation of the Mark of the Beast

Yom Kippur 2011 (7 October 2011) will be a few weeks after 2300-literal days since the 1335-days ended."

Wild speculation, particularly attractive to Adventists who are students of prophecy. "Fascinating" theories. Fascinating, not my word, Sister Whites word to describe delusions and end time counterfits. This IS "fascinating stuff", it captures the imagination, casts doubt, promotes speculation, it's all very wonderful!

Why is 9/11 anymore significant than say:

The Civil War

WW1

Great Depression

WW2

Kennedy, a Catholic President

...signs of the times certainly, along with gross speculation. You could pick a lot of different dates and "hang" this "number setting" business on them. Kellogg, Dr. Ford, others, also offered "fascinating" theories. Deeply sincere man with impeccable credentials and apparently a very God filled life. Powerful testimonies about the things God really HAD done for them in their life. No question the Lord worked through many servants (Jones, Wagonner, Uriah Smith) and yet at some point, they were terribly mistaken.

The Messenger himself adds nothing or takes nothing away, his position, authority, credentials mean nothing. It is the message and that alone that must meet the test to BOTH the bible and the SOP. How deep would you have had to go to understand Ford? Kellogg? How muddy would you have to get before you reached the bottom of it?

Along with logic and reason, consider the fruit.

Extreme caution is advised, some will NOT return from this journey.

[hch]

Yesterday (late into the night), the Lord blessed my study of "No prophetic time after 1844" related to Daniel 12's 1335-days.

Some SDA's teach that Sister White states that there is no prophetic time past 1844.

But EGW does not contradict herself.

I would not be inclined to set time for Christ to come, and thus place myself under the same condemnation with those whom I was reproving. And I had no vision until 1845, which was after the passing of the time of general expectation in 1844. I was then shown what I have here stated. {1T 72.3}

[hch]

I've studied this matter closely, I see it in an entirely different light, reading from the same sources.

The "fruit" of this message divideds the church, there is no unity in it at all. ...

[hch]

That confusion is just ONE of the many problems I find with this false theology.

[ClubV12]

HCH, your testimony is to scattered and confused to be of the Lord, it's as simple as that. The same could be said for every person I've researched on this topic, in a word "confusion". A mixture of truth and error is not from the Lord. Many men have offered truth, mixed with error.

God does not present this gem and that gem to many different people at the same time. His message is consistent, more than one man will receive it, not a small confused army of sincerely mistaken men each with a slightly different take on the subject.

[hch]

Chedder, Christ could have come over a hundred years ago. ...

[hch]

Extreme caution is advised, some will NOT return from this journey.

History repeats?

When Israel left Egypt, some did NOT return to the promised land of their fathers to which they journeyed.

They died on the border just short of their goal. They could see it. They could smell it. And they longed to be there, but some were bitten by fiery serpents and they could have survived the bite if they would only look and live. But they chose not to look and not to live and they did not go over Jordan.

[ClubV12]

HCH,,, just curious, is it your opinion that those who do not accept your message, your proposed dates, your theology on this issue will suffer a delusion (as great as yours I might add) and as a result will be lost?

In other words, is this "doctrine" you present a salvational issue?