Been reading the Testimonies....

[John317]

I'm glad you've come to our Adventist Forum, Just*. Be sure to keep coming!

[Just*]

The question now is, does this reconcilation constitute the justification-- (which is the declaration by God that the human race is not guilty but is righteous)-- of the entire world?

"...He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace"

Ephesians 1:6-7

"in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight" Colossians 1:22

"...the message of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:19 NIV

"... heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation"

Ephesians 1:13

[John317]

All those verses you quoted are addressed to believers, people who have accepted Christ as their Savior.

The unrepentent wicked are not accepted in the Beloved because they are not "in Christ."

The whole world is not "in Christ."

Being "in Christ" means to be "in union with Christ."

It's talking about our abiding in Christ, as described in John 15: 1-8.

[Just*]

All those verses you quoted are addressed to believers, people who have accepted Christ as their Savior.

The unrepentent wicked are not accepted in the Beloved because they are not "in Christ."

The whole world is not "in Christ."

Being "in Christ" means to be "in union with Christ."

It's talking about our abiding in Christ, as described in John 15: 1-8.

For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;

2 Corinthians 5:14 NKJ

[miz3]

All those verses you quoted are addressed to believers, people who have accepted Christ as their Savior.

The unrepentent wicked are not accepted in the Beloved because they are not "in Christ."

The whole world is not "in Christ."

Being "in Christ" means to be "in union with Christ."

It's talking about our abiding in Christ, as described in John 15: 1-8.

You keep ignoring those texts that talk about Christ dying for the "whole world". I will post Romans chapter five again because you focus in only on one part and ignore the rest of what was posted to you for your edification!

[miz3]

Here is the whole quote from Romans chapter five!

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Romans 5:6-21.

1. See verses eight and nine above they clearly state that while we humans were still sinners that God Justified us by the Blood of Jesus Christ! FACT!

2. Verse ten says that when we humans were still God's enemies God RECONCILED US through the death of Jesus Christ! FACT!

3. Verse eleven says we are to rejoice because while we are still sinners God RECONCILED US through Jesus Christ! FACT!

4. Again in verse sixteen it says that the Gift of God is that because of Jesus Christ's death we have been Justified! FACT!

5. Verse eighteen again states with great clarity that ALL HUMANS ARE JUSTIFIED BY CHRIST'S DEATH! FACT!

Paul repeats five times in this passage that WITHOUT ANY HUMAN INPUT WHATSOEVER that JESUS CHRIST'S DEATH JUSTIFIED ALL HUMANS!

It does not matter what you say the other apostles did because Paul in Romans chapter five says with repetitive clarity that ALL HUMANS HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED!

Jesus' Death on the Cross Justified all men! That is what the Scripture says. There no "ands", no "ifs", no "buts" concerning that Biblical FACT!

There was NO WAITING TILL CHRIST ENTERED THE SANCTUARY OR PLEADING THE MERITS OR ANYTHING!

Romans chapter five is quite clear that the deal was all done on the Cross! NO OTHER ADDITIONS!

[Just*]

The unrepentent wicked are not accepted in the Beloved because they are not "in Christ."

The whole world is not "in Christ."

"He asks for the witness that God accepts humanity in the person of His Son. " {DA 111.6}

"And the word that was spoken to Jesus at the Jordan, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative. With all our sins and weaknesses, we are not cast aside as worthless. "He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:6. "  {DA 113.1}

[John317]

"He asks for the witness that God accepts humanity in the person of His Son. " {DA 111.6}

"And the word that was spoken to Jesus at the Jordan, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative. With all our sins and weaknesses, we are not cast aside as worthless. "He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:6. "  {DA 113.1}

Sure, those are all true statements, but none of them are saying that all humanity is justifed.

What Christ's death did was give all humanity a second probation. Christ's death did not declare that all human beings are acquited of sin and declared righteous as God's Son.

Those who put their faith in Christ are accepted in the Beloved. This is for certain!

But is Hitler, for instance, accepted in the Beloved?

Will anyone be saved in God's kingdom merely on the basis of "legal justification"?

[John317]

You keep ignoring those texts that talk about Christ dying for the "whole world".

I don't ignore them. Of course Christ gave His life for the sins of the whole world-- that is, on behalf of every single person who ever lived.

But does that mean every single person is justified?

What Christ's death did was give all humanity a second probation. His death didn't justify everybody irrespective of their choice or faith in Christ.

You're mixing apples and oranges.

All did reap the benefits of Christ's coming here and shedding his blood, but that is different from saying all humanity was declared by God to be righteous. People are only accounted righteous by faith in Christ, not merely by virtue of being born.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Just

"He asks for the witness that God accepts humanity in the person of His Son. " {DA 111.6}

"And the word that was spoken to Jesus at the Jordan, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative. With all our sins and weaknesses, we are not cast aside as worthless. "He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:6. "  {DA 113.1}

Sure, those are all true statements, but none of them are saying that all humanity is justifed.

What Christ's death did was give all humanity a second probation. Christ's death did not declare that all human beings are acquited of sin and declared righteous as God's Son.

Those who put their faith in Christ are accepted in the Beloved. This is for certain!

But is Hitler, for instance, accepted in the Beloved?

Will anyone be saved in God's kingdom merely on the basis of "legal justification"?

Hitler certainly bore an exceptional amount of bad fruit! However, we can not with any certainty say whether Hitler is "saved" or is "lost"? God will make that call!

Romans chapter five does however, say that God JUSTIFIED Hitler just as God JUSTIFIED EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEING!

The question is did Hitler REJECT God's Gift? No one really knows even though the "fruit" looks very bad!

As God told Samuel, and I paraphrase, "Man looks on the outward things (fruit) but God does not judge as humans do because God looks on the heart and sees things that humans cannot know!"

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

You keep ignoring those texts that talk about Christ dying for the "whole world".

I don't ignore them. Of course Christ gave His life for the sins of the whole world-- that is, on behalf of every single person who ever lived.

But does that mean every single person is justified?

What Christ's death did was give all humanity a second probation. His death didn't justify everybody irrespective of their choice or faith in Christ.

You're mixing apples and oranges.

All did reap the benefits of Christ's coming here and shedding his blood, but that is different from saying all humanity was declared by God to be righteous. People are only accounted righteous by faith in Christ, not merely by virtue of being born.

There is nothing in Romans chapter five about JUSTIFICATION being a "second probation". The term "second probation" as far as I know does not exist in the Bible!

If it were a "second probation" when did you and I have our "first probation"?

Romans chapter five in the entirety of what I quoted several times and am willing to quote again if necessary most certainly states that God through Jesus Christ JUSTIFIED THE WHOLE WORLD irrespective of their choice or faith in Christ!

Yes! and Yes again! It does mean every single person "has" been JUSTIFIED!

Are these humans still JUSTIFIED? Now that is another question altogether!

[BobRyan]

Matthew 12:37

For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Luke 18:14

I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Romans 3:28

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

(You cannot be "justified by faith" if you have no faith)

1 Corinthians 6:11

Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Clearly In our lost state we were not justified.

We believe so that we may be justified -

Galatians 2:16

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

We are seeking to be Justified in Christ -

Galatians 2:17

But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

When the lost person is lead to Christ by the Law of God showing us our sin and our need of salvation - it is THEN that we are justified.

Galatians 3:24

Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

[BobRyan]

Rom 2:13-16 "For it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE JUSTIFIED ... on the day when according to my Gospel God WILL judge "

"You see than that a man is JUSTIFIED by works and not by faith alone" James 2

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

There is nothing in Romans chapter five about JUSTIFICATION being a "second probation". The term "second probation" as far as I know does not exist in the Bible!

If it were a "second probation" when did you and I have our "first probation"?

Our first probation was when God told Adam not to eat of the Tree of Life and that if he did eat of it, he would die.

God could have allowed all humanity to die when Adam failed the test.

But he didn't. Instead He set the plan in motion for Christ to come and die in order to make it possible for anyone who put their faith in Christ to be saved.

That was our second probation. We're on our second probation now. We're being tested to see who is worthy of being given immortality. God will not give it to just anyone.

Some people want a third probation and think God is going to give it to us. In that they are badly mistaken.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

There is nothing in Romans chapter five about JUSTIFICATION being a "second probation". The term "second probation" as far as I know does not exist in the Bible!

If it were a "second probation" when did you and I have our "first probation"?

Our first probation was when God told Adam not to eat of the Tree of Life and that if he did eat of it, he would die.

God could have allowed all humanity to die when Adam failed the test.

But he didn't. Instead He set the plan in motion for Christ to come and die in order to make it possible for anyone who put their faith in Christ to be saved.

That was our second probation. We're on our second probation now. We're being tested to see who is worthy of being given immortality. God will not give it to just anyone.

Some people want a third probation and think God is going to give it to us. In that they are badly mistaken.

That was Adam not us! That was Adam's probation! God gave Adam a "second chance"!

However, you and I never had a chance period!

Adam sinned and God by fiat declared all of Adam's children guilty. We didn't get a chance to pass any test! We are conceived guilty! "In sin did my mother conceive me"! However, simultaneously God's JUSTIFICATION kicked in, also by God's fiat, and we were not killed the instant our life was conceived!

Adam had the chances, you and I never got any probation whatsoever!

You are correct about one thing, their are no more tests!

To those who have "FAITH" IN THE JUSTIFICATION GOD HAS GIVEN US AS A FREE GIFT ALREADY, they will experience Heaven!

To those who REJECT God whether out rightly or somewhere along their life's line will not experience Heaven instead they will experience Hell!

This is the Gospel, this is the Good News! God made it very easy! No one has any excuse as to why they are lost! They are lost because they REJECTED GOD!

In like manner we are not saved because we did anything. We are saved by the FREE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE!

It is a given, REJECT AND DIE!

The only other thing that can happen is if you don't REJECT GOD AND HIS GIFT, you get to LIVE! If you don't REJECT God, God has done everything for you and will continue to do everything for you until you are "more than a conqueror"! That would be Romans chapter eight!

You are LOST BY WHAT YOU DO!

You are SAVED BY WHAT GOD DOES!

Very simple!

That is why we should all humble ourselves and thank the Almighty God for what He and He Alone has done!

[John317]

Please study the Ellen White statement below in regard to "probation":

Quote:

Christ's divine soul was exercised with infinite pity for the fallen pair. As their wretched, helpless condition came up before Him, and as He saw that by transgression of God's law they had fallen under the power and control of the prince of darkness, He proposed the only means that could be acceptable with God, that would give them another trial, and place them again on probation. Christ consented to leave His honor, His kingly authority, His glory with the Father, and humble Himself to humanity, and engage in contest with the mighty prince of darkness, in order to redeem man. Through His humiliation and poverty Christ would identify Himself with the weaknesses of the fallen race, and by firm obedience show that man might redeem Adam's disgraceful failure, and by humble obedience regain lost Eden. {Confrontation 17.2}

Can you see that Ellen White does not talk about all of humanity being justified? What she does talk about is Christ's death giving all humanity a second trial or a second probation.

In this she is teaching the same thing that the Bible teaches.

Quote:

Christ on Probation.--For a period of time Christ was on probation. He took humanity on Himself, to stand the test and trial which the first Adam failed to endure. Had He failed in His test and trial, He would have been disobedient to the voice of God, and the world would have been lost (ST May 10, 1899). {5BC 1082. 1083}

Quote:

Adam and Eve were given a probation in which to return to their allegiance; and in this plan of benevolence all their posterity were embraced. After the Fall, Christ became Adam's instructor. He acted in God's stead toward humanity, saving the race from immediate death. He took upon Him the work of mediator between God and man. In the fullness of time He was to be revealed in human form. He was to take His position at the head of humanity by taking the nature but not the sinfulness of man (ST May 29, 1901). {7BC 912.8}

Notice again that in the above, Ellen White is not speaking of a justification of all humanity but of giving all the world a second trial, or second probation.

Quote:

God does not commend or confirm men in impenitence, for this condition of the human heart does not glorify him, nor work good for humanity. God sheds light upon the souls of men, he grants them opportunities and privileges, and if these are not improved, if the precious moments of probation are neglected, the measure of the light given will be the measure of the guilt incurred through this inexcusable neglect of the gifts of God. The Review and Herald, February 17, 1891 The Measure of Light Given, Measures

Our Responsibility.

Quote:

This admonition and warning was left on record for all who have a knowledge of the truth, and claim to be Seventh-day Adventists. Our probation is of more value to us than all the gold and silver of the world. Man has been given a second trial; but it was at an infinite cost to heaven that we were granted another opportunity to form characters of which God can approve. Christ united his divinity with humanity. He possessed the qualities of infinite and finite. In his person all excellence dwells. His sacrifice was our ransom from the slavery of sin. By his atonement we are enabled to sit with him on his throne, and share his glory. Then shall we, with such possibilities before us, show ourselves incapable of appreciating the heavenly gift? As the recipients of his grace, shall we not do our part by working out our salvation with fear and trembling? It is God that works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Man works, and God works; but God can do nothing without man's co-operation. {RH, January 25, 1898 par. 2}

Quote:

The promise of the Father was pledged that if Christ clothed His divinity with humanity, if He endured the test that Adam failed to endure, His obedience would be counted as righteousness to His people. Thus He would conquer in their behalf, and place them on vantage ground. Thus they would be given a probation in which they might return to their loyalty by keeping God's law. And in this Christ would see of the travail of His soul, and be satisfied.Signs of the Times, June 28, 1899 The Only True Mediator.

Quote:

Every one is accountable to God according to the ability and talent which he has received. Those who are on probation to see whether or not they are to be subjects of the kingdom of God, must be tried and proved now. Those who love God in spirit and in truth, will be pronounced fit subjects of the heavenly kingdom. The law of God, which is perfect holiness, is the only true standard of character. Love is expressed in obedience, and perfect love casteth out all fear. Those who love God, have the seal of God in their foreheads, and work the works of God. The Youth's Instructor,July 26, 1894 Love God Practically.

Quote:

The Lord has given to every individual an opportunity to obtain a righteous character through the hours of probation; but he has not provided a way by which one human agent may impart to another the character which he has developed by going through hard experiences, by learning lessons from the great Teacher, so that he can manifest patience under trial, and exercise faith so that he can remove mountains of impossibility. It is impossible to impart the fragrance of love,--to give to another gentleness, tact, and perseverance. It is impossible for one human heart to pour into another the love of God and humanity. {YI, January 16, 1896 par. 2}

Quote:

A work of reformation is to be carried on in our institutions. Physicians, workers, nurses, are to realize that they are on probation, on trial for their present life, and for that life which measures with the life of God. We are to put to the stretch every faculty, every nerve and muscle, in order to bring saving truth to the attention of suffering humanity. This work must be carried on in connection with the work of saving the sick. Then the work will stand forth before the world in the strength which God designs it shall have. Through the influence of sanctified workers the truth will be magnified. It will go forth as a lamp that burneth. {Kress Collection 59.2}

[John317]

Our first probation was when God told Adam not to eat of the Tree of Life and that if he did eat of it, he would die.

God could have allowed all humanity to die when Adam failed the test.

But he didn't. Instead He set the plan in motion for Christ to come and die in order to make it possible for anyone who put their faith in Christ to be saved.

That was our second probation. We're on our second probation now. We're being tested to see who is worthy of being given immortality. God will not give it to just anyone.

Some people want a third probation and think God is going to give it to us. In that they are badly mistaken.

Originally Posted By: miz3

That was Adam not us! That was Adam's probation! God gave Adam a "second chance"!

However, you and I never had a chance period!

We all could have pershed when our Father Adam failed his probation. God would have been perfectly just to allow us to reap the consequences of Adam's disobedience.

We all get a second trial, a second probation, because of what God and Christ did. Even the animals and the plants reap the benefits of Christ's willingness to come here and die so that we might live.

WE're alive now because humanity was given a second trial on account of Christ's life, death, and resurrection.

[cheddar]

That was Adam not us! That was Adam's probation! God gave Adam a "second chance"!

However, you and I never had a chance period!

Adam sinned and God by fiat declared all of Adam's children guilty. We didn't get a chance to pass any test! We are conceived guilty! "In sin did my mother conceive me"! However, simultaneously God's JUSTIFICATION kicked in, also by God's fiat, and we were not killed the instant our life was conceived!

Adam had the chances, you and I never got any probation whatsoever!

You are correct about one thing, their are no more tests!

To those who have "FAITH" IN THE JUSTIFICATION GOD HAS GIVEN US AS A FREE GIFT ALREADY, they will experience Heaven!

To those who REJECT God whether out rightly or somewhere along their life's line will not experience Heaven instead they will experience Hell!

This is the Gospel, this is the Good News! God made it very easy! No one has any excuse as to why they are lost! They are lost because they REJECTED GOD!

In like manner we are not saved because we did anything. We are saved by the FREE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE!

It is a given, REJECT AND DIE!

The only other thing that can happen is if you don't REJECT GOD AND HIS GIFT, you get to LIVE! If you don't REJECT God, God has done everything for you and will continue to do everything for you until you are "more than a conqueror"! That would be Romans chapter eight!

You are LOST BY WHAT YOU DO!

You are SAVED BY WHAT GOD DOES!

Very simple!

That is why we should all humble ourselves and thank the Almighty God for what He and He Alone has done!

Wow! That sounded like something Jack Sequeira would say.

I didn’t think you liked him.

[ClubV12]

It is true, of course, that no matter what we do in terms of works, it will never be enough, in the end, only the sacrafice of Christ and His merits offered on our behalf will suffice.

I work on cars as a hobby, sometimes I help people work on their cars. I generally DON'T work on anybodys car for money, or by myself. I want them to roll up their sleeves, get involved, they may not have a clue where to start. It's not what they can do, it's if they are motivated to try, to get involved. On occasion they just want to pay me to fix it, I won't, I don't "work" that way. I'll help you, only if you help yourself. OK, some exceptions for old ladies who have a kind heart but can't handle hanging around the garage....

Likewise, we have a part to play in salvation, it's a gift, it's free, we can't earn it, but we certainly need to be involved in the process to the best of our God given ability.

[miz3]

Please study the Ellen White statement below in regard to "probation":

Quote:

Christ's divine soul was exercised with infinite pity for the fallen pair. As their wretched, helpless condition came up before Him, and as He saw that by transgression of God's law they had fallen under the power and control of the prince of darkness, He proposed the only means that could be acceptable with God, that would give them another trial, and place them again on probation. Christ consented to leave His honor, His kingly authority, His glory with the Father, and humble Himself to humanity, and engage in contest with the mighty prince of darkness, in order to redeem man. Through His humiliation and poverty Christ would identify Himself with the weaknesses of the fallen race, and by firm obedience show that man might redeem Adam's disgraceful failure, and by humble obedience regain lost Eden. {Confrontation 17.2}

Can you see that Ellen White does not talk about all of humanity being justified? What she does talk about is Christ's death giving all humanity a second trial or a second probation.

In this she is teaching the same thing that the Bible teaches.

Quote:

Christ on Probation.--For a period of time Christ was on probation. He took humanity on Himself, to stand the test and trial which the first Adam failed to endure. Had He failed in His test and trial, He would have been disobedient to the voice of God, and the world would have been lost (ST May 10, 1899). {5BC 1082. 1083}

Quote:

Adam and Eve were given a probation in which to return to their allegiance; and in this plan of benevolence all their posterity were embraced. After the Fall, Christ became Adam's instructor. He acted in God's stead toward humanity, saving the race from immediate death. He took upon Him the work of mediator between God and man. In the fullness of time He was to be revealed in human form. He was to take His position at the head of humanity by taking the nature but not the sinfulness of man (ST May 29, 1901). {7BC 912.8}

Notice again that in the above, Ellen White is not speaking of a justification of all humanity but of giving all the world a second trial, or second probation.

Quote:

God does not commend or confirm men in impenitence, for this condition of the human heart does not glorify him, nor work good for humanity. God sheds light upon the souls of men, he grants them opportunities and privileges, and if these are not improved, if the precious moments of probation are neglected, the measure of the light given will be the measure of the guilt incurred through this inexcusable neglect of the gifts of God. The Review and Herald, February 17, 1891 The Measure of Light Given, Measures

Our Responsibility.

Quote:

This admonition and warning was left on record for all who have a knowledge of the truth, and claim to be Seventh-day Adventists. Our probation is of more value to us than all the gold and silver of the world. Man has been given a second trial; but it was at an infinite cost to heaven that we were granted another opportunity to form characters of which God can approve. Christ united his divinity with humanity. He possessed the qualities of infinite and finite. In his person all excellence dwells. His sacrifice was our ransom from the slavery of sin. By his atonement we are enabled to sit with him on his throne, and share his glory. Then shall we, with such possibilities before us, show ourselves incapable of appreciating the heavenly gift? As the recipients of his grace, shall we not do our part by working out our salvation with fear and trembling? It is God that works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Man works, and God works; but God can do nothing without man's co-operation. {RH, January 25, 1898 par. 2}

Quote:

The promise of the Father was pledged that if Christ clothed His divinity with humanity, if He endured the test that Adam failed to endure, His obedience would be counted as righteousness to His people. Thus He would conquer in their behalf, and place them on vantage ground. Thus they would be given a probation in which they might return to their loyalty by keeping God's law. And in this Christ would see of the travail of His soul, and be satisfied.Signs of the Times, June 28, 1899 The Only True Mediator.

Quote:

Every one is accountable to God according to the ability and talent which he has received. Those who are on probation to see whether or not they are to be subjects of the kingdom of God, must be tried and proved now. Those who love God in spirit and in truth, will be pronounced fit subjects of the heavenly kingdom. The law of God, which is perfect holiness, is the only true standard of character. Love is expressed in obedience, and perfect love casteth out all fear. Those who love God, have the seal of God in their foreheads, and work the works of God. The Youth's Instructor,July 26, 1894 Love God Practically.

Quote:

The Lord has given to every individual an opportunity to obtain a righteous character through the hours of probation; but he has not provided a way by which one human agent may impart to another the character which he has developed by going through hard experiences, by learning lessons from the great Teacher, so that he can manifest patience under trial, and exercise faith so that he can remove mountains of impossibility. It is impossible to impart the fragrance of love,--to give to another gentleness, tact, and perseverance. It is impossible for one human heart to pour into another the love of God and humanity. {YI, January 16, 1896 par. 2}

Quote:

A work of reformation is to be carried on in our institutions. Physicians, workers, nurses, are to realize that they are on probation, on trial for their present life, and for that life which measures with the life of God. We are to put to the stretch every faculty, every nerve and muscle, in order to bring saving truth to the attention of suffering humanity. This work must be carried on in connection with the work of saving the sick. Then the work will stand forth before the world in the strength which God designs it shall have. Through the influence of sanctified workers the truth will be magnified. It will go forth as a lamp that burneth. {Kress Collection 59.2}

Paul in Romans chapter five says nothing about "probation" but says a whole lot about JUSTIFICATION AS A GIFT FROM GOD APART FROM ANYTHING THAT HUMANS DO OR SAY!

If Ellen White says something different than this, then she is not in harmony with the Bible.

The Bible does not say that humans are on probation!

I ALSO NOTICED THAT IN THE QUOTES ABOVE ELLEN WHITE DOES NOT ONE BIBLE TEXT FOR SUPPORT HER WORDS!

I would say that the Bible is HIGHER AUTHORITY!

[miz3]

Wow! That sounded like something Jack Sequeira would say.

I didn’t think you liked him.

Like I told Sonny in our great debate there is a whole lot of Jack S. that I can agree with. I do not however, agree with his assertion that Jesus Christ was born with a "sinful nature"!

I do not dislike Jack S. but I did dislike Sonny using him as Authority over the rest of us as to what the Bible says. Jack S. may have many good points but there is only One Authority that counts: GOD AND HIS WORD (BIBLE)!

[Just*]

Originally Posted By: Just

"He asks for the witness that God accepts humanity in the person of His Son. " {DA 111.6}

"And the word that was spoken to Jesus at the Jordan, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative. With all our sins and weaknesses, we are not cast aside as worthless. "He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:6. "  {DA 113.1}

Sure, those are all true statements, but none of them are saying that all humanity is justifed.

What Christ's death did was give all humanity a second probation. Christ's death did not declare that all human beings are acquited of sin and declared righteous as God's Son.

Those who put their faith in Christ are accepted in the Beloved. This is for certain!

But is Hitler, for instance, accepted in the Beloved?

Will anyone be saved in God's kingdom merely on the basis of "legal justification"?

"being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" Romans 3:24NKJ

There are times when the fog lifts and we see this truth more clearly than at other times

because the Holy Spirit presses home the conviction that we’re all the same by nature

sinners who can’t save ourselves. Not one of us by nature is any better than all the rest,

because we’re all made of the same dough, as Martin Luther wisely said. “All the world

[has] become guilty before God” (Romans 3:19).

It’s written all over all of us. Our very name is “Adam,” which is the Bible name for all

mankind. Adam was a sinner. When he sinned in the beginning, he was the entire

human race in himself, so that the whole human race sinned “in him.” All the sin in the

world was therefore included in Adam’s sin when he sinned. There is not a human on

earth who has not come from Adam, with his sinful nature. “All have sinned and fall

short of the glory of God,” (verse 23). But the Good News comes in the next half of the

same sentence: and “[all are] being justified freely by His grace through the redemption

that is in Christ Jesus” (verse 24). Thank God! The second half of that sentence more

than cancels the first half. How?

The word “justified” means to be straightened out, put right, or vindicated. (Remember,

only sinners need to be straightened out!) Please look carefully, because all this was

done before we ourselves could possibly do anything good. He justified us, put us

straight, redeemed us, saved us as the human race, without any contribution from

ourselves. It’s wrong to say or think that our faith saves us. Faith is not our Savior. “By

grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of

God” (Ephesians 2:8). That agrees with what we just read in Romans 3:24, we were

saved before we had faith, but our faith is what grabs hold of that blessed fact and

makes it real in our own personal experience. This Good News is clear in Romans 3:23,

24:

“All” are “justified.” That means the entire human race. This truth is the cure for

depression, despair, low self-respect. Believe it, and henceforth you cannot help but

hold your head high anytime, anywhere. But how does this change come about?

These “all” are justified “freely.” No admission ticket required. Anything “free” is for

everybody, no exceptions. No one can say, “This isn’t for me” (unless of course you are

from Mars or you haven’t sinned preposterous assumptions). Stop wasting precious

spiritual energy worrying about whether God has accepted you. Come into His presence

like the prince or princess that you are in His sight. You’ve already been adopted into

His family “in Christ”!

Someone says, “How can that be? I’m not a real Christian and never have been!” The

answer is that the entire human race was in Christ as the second Adam just as it was in

the first Adam. Therefore you were included. When Christ was baptized, the Father

said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (Matthew 3:17). He was

talking about us all, for He counted us “in Him.” A writer who understood says that word

“embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative.”

The “all” are justified “by His grace.” Note that the word “faith” is not there. Your faith or

your lack of faith had nothing to do with Christ giving His life for you, justifying you by

His sacrifice. And remember that “grace” is not meant for good people but for those who

don’t deserve it. “To him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is

accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:4, 5). This accomplishment redeems everyone

“in Christ Jesus.”

“Wait a minute! All this is given free to bad people?” Yes, the Bible says, “all.” If “your

Father in heaven makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the

just and on the unjust” (Matthew 5:45), it must include bad people. That has to be the

meaning of “grace,” or it isn’t grace.

Imagine the surprise that this is going to be. Many millions haven’t realized what the

Son of God has done! The very shock of learning this will capture their attention, for

most have never been told that Christ accomplished such a feat as this. (Even atheists

are going to be shocked, for no one could have invented this idea).

By now we’re taking a deep breath. This is shocking to all of us as well. What evidence

do we have in the Bible that the Good News is this good?

When the Father sent His Son into the world, He was given explicit instructions that His

job was to “save the world” for He says, “I did not come to judge the world but to save

the world,” and “to give [My] life a ransom for many” (John 12:47; Matthew 20:28).

And when He was about to die He prayed, “I have finished the work which You have

given Me to do” (John 12:47; 17:4).

Probably the first people to recognize this amazing truth were the Samaritans of the

village of Sychar who said, “We know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the

world” (John 4:42). They got the idea He’s not only the Savior of the Jews or of a

handful of Gentiles who believe and obey, but He is everybody’s Savior!

As the “last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45), He became “us” as truly as Adam was us.

Thus when He died in our place, He actually died as us. “You are complete in Him, who

is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10). You died “in Him,” were

resurrected “in Him,” and will live eternally “in Him” (see Romans 6:3, 4, 5, 6; 8:9;

Ephesians 1:3-12).

He won’t force you to be saved against your will. You can say “No!” and forfeit your

birthright even as Esau sold his for a mess of lentil stew (see Genesis 25:29-33). Many

will. But the “birthright” has been yours because you are a member of the human race.

You are not an exception. Are you a sinner? You are the reason why He came to do

this. Can you believe that you have been redeemed? That’s what the Bible is saying. Is

the gift given to us already? That’s what the words “grace” and “given freely” mean.

“Now wait a minute,” someone says, “isn’t there something I must do?” Yes, of course.

Something big and very important: you must believe this Good News that you have

heard and let it move your soul. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only

begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life”

(John 3:16). It’s true, and no one has a right to add any words that Jesus did not say,

such as “you must do this” or “you must do that,” or that “nothing happens unless you

take the initiative.” He has taken the initiative; He has loved; He has given.

But this does not mean that faith is a mere mental assent to an equation like believing

that 2 + 2 = 4. To believe means to appreciate what it cost God to love us like that and

to give His Son to die for us. This is the much bigger truth that many are now beginning

to discover is in the Bible. Such faith takes up the whole heart—nothing left over for the

selfishness of the world. The heart-appreciation is big because you realize what Jesus

did was big.

The death that He died for us was not merely enduring some physical pain for a few

hours, which was terrible enough. He died what the Bible calls “the second death,” the

death without personal hope, “the pouring out of His soul unto death” that Isaiah speaks

of (Isa. 53:12; Revelation 2:11; 20:14). In other words, out of love for us He gave

Himself to go to hell, truly giving Himself forever. (The most wonderful hero in the world

who died for somebody else couldn’t go that far!). On His cross He felt to the full the

pain of abandonment by God, and sobbed out, “Why have You forsaken Me?” There we

see the “width and length and depth and height” of love. It’s agape, a love as different

from what we call love as day is from night (Ephesians 3:18). When our shriveled up

little hearts begin to appreciate that, we begin to live. We are like dead people

resurrected. In fact, our hearts have never been so moved. We don’t realize our

potential for loving people who we never dreamed we could love, the tremendous

capacity for devotion to Christ we didn’t know is buried deep in our hearts. This

discovery about yourself is magnificent. It’s a resurrection to new life even now.

To have faith is not merely to trust the Lord like you trust the bank or the insurance

company. You can do that and still remain as selfish as you were before, because such

trust is a self-centered concern. The John 3:16 idea of faith solves the problem and lifts

our naturally self-centered hearts out of a dark cave into the sunlight: faith is a heartmelting

appreciation of what it cost the Son of God to save us.

We know this from several texts that tell us what faith is. Those two things that God did

in John 3:16 are: (a) He so loved the world that He ( gave His only begotten Son.

Those two trigger ©: we believe. The (a) and the ( come before the ©! If your heart

says “Thanks!” for (a) and (, then you’ve already begun ©. But just begun, for one’s

selfish heart only begins to come alive; you grow; the hardness is melted day by day.

And that faith “works through love” (agape). Your motives and your conduct are

transformed from the inside out. Don’t get discouraged if progress seems slow. The

Holy Spirit is working!

In other words, faith couldn’t even exist unless first of all there was the revelation of that

love at the cross (agape). All of this is just another way of saying that salvation is by

grace, “not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:9).

[Just*]

Christ 1)has redeemed us(being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus)

from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 2)that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:13-14

NKJ

[John317]

You are LOST BY WHAT YOU DO!

You are SAVED BY WHAT GOD DOES!

Very simple!

That is why we should all humble ourselves and thank the Almighty God for what He and He Alone has done!

For sure, we can't earn or merit salvation, but that doesn't mean that we don't have any part to play in salvation. Humans must cooperate with God.

WE are not saved by our obedience to God, but neither will anyone be saved without obedience to God.

It's extremely important to distinguish between "works of the law" and "works of faith." Works of faith are those works which result from a faith-based relationship with God. These are the same as the fruits of the Spirit.

Works of the law, on the other hand, are those works which people do for the purpose of earning salvation or merit and righteousness with God. They are absolutely worthless-- and even worse than worthless-- in the sight of God.

What kind of works did Jesus do?

Obviously Jesus did works of faith. His works were the result of His faith-based relationship with His heavenly Father.

Jesus is our example, our role-model.

As Paul wrote:

Gal.5:6-- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal.6:15-- For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

[Just*]

...justified by his blood Romans 5:9 RSV

"...we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son , much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.Romans 5:10

that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them , and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:19

God was in Christ reconciling the world ...

be reconciled to God