Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. He could have sinned; He could have fallen, but not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity. He was assailed with temptations in the wilderness, as Adam was assailed with temptations in Eden. {13MR 18.1} This is how EGW defines "an evil propensity": Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart (mind), and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. [MAR 91] Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 The lamb up to that point was without spot or blemish. You can't mix the symbolic with the reality, Christ. The symbolic lamb didn't actually have sin placed on or in it. "Sacrifice and offering you didn't desire, But a body did you prepare for me" Clearly Hebrews chapter 10 points out that these symbolic sacrifices couldn't take away sin. Instead a human body was created for Christ. In that humanity was indwelling sin. That humanity was given Christ at the incarnation. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II The lamb up to that point was without spot or blemish. You can't mix the symbolic with the reality, Christ. The symbolic lamb didn't actually have sin placed on or in it. "Sacrifice and offering you didn't desire, But a body did you prepare for me" Clearly Hebrews chapter 10 points out that these symbolic sacrifices couldn't take away sin. Instead a human body was created for Christ. In that humanity was indwelling sin. That humanity was given Christ at the incarnation. The sin was placed on the Lamb as an object lesson of Christ. Any gospel that ignores this is "another gospel". If you have to remove the nature of the object lessons in the sanctuary to prove your point, you should be able to see that something is wrong with your gospel. Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Again, you can't mix the symbolic with the reality, Christ. The symbolic lamb didn't actually have sin placed on or in it. "Sacrifice and offering you didn't desire, But a body did you prepare for me" Clearly Hebrews chapter 10 points out that these symbolic sacrifices couldn't take away sin. Instead a human body was created for Christ. In that humanity was indwelling sin. That humanity was given Christ at the incarnation. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 The symbol explains the spiritual Robert. The whole sanctuary service was a symbol of Christ. That includes the lamb. That is why the sins being placed on the spotless lamb show that that sins were placed on Christ the spotless one, at His crucifixion. To argue against this, is to argue against the obvious... Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 That is why the sins being placed on the spotless lamb show that that sins were placed on Christ the spotless one, at His crucifixion. Sin cannot be placed on any object. This is a metaphor. Let's say you murder someone. Can the judge place this action on you? No, but He can charge you with murder. God didn't actually lay actions on Christ. Actions aren't tangible. Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 ...sins were placed on Christ the spotless one, at His crucifixion.... He was spotless in performance, not in the nature He assumed. Our nature is the problem. Take care of the nature and you take care of sin. For Christ to take the curse He had to take our nature. Otherwise God would be placing the curse a sinless human. Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree" Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came (at the incarnation), God sent forth his Son, born to a woman, born under the law (under its curse). Again, Christ was never guilty of sin, but since He took our life indwelt with sin, that life came under condemnation the moment He was born. For 30 something years Christ never served His assumed human nature (not even by a thought) and on the cross God abandoned our humanity and hence our corporate life died the wages of sin in Christ. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II That is why the sins being placed on the spotless lamb show that that sins were placed on Christ the spotless one, at His crucifixion. Sin cannot be placed on any object. This is a metaphor. Let's say you murder someone. Can the judge place this action on you? No, but He can charge you with murder. God didn't actually lay actions on Christ. Actions aren't tangible. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II ...sins were placed on Christ the spotless one, at His crucifixion.... He was spotless in performance, not in the nature He assumed. Our nature is the problem. Take care of the nature and you take care of sin. For Christ to take the curse He had to take our nature. Otherwise God would be placing the curse a sinless human. Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree" Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came (at the incarnation), God sent forth his Son, born to a woman, born under the law (under its curse). Again, Christ was never guilty of sin, but since He took our life indwelt with sin, that life came under condemnation the moment He was born. For 30 something years Christ never served His assumed human nature (not even by a thought) and on the cross God abandoned our humanity and hence our corporate life died the wages of sin in Christ. Until you can accept that Adam was tempted in the garden of Eden, without a sinful nature, then you will ever understand that Christ could have the same experience. Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 1 Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body..... Everyone of us has gone astray, since we have all turned or bent “to his own way.” 2. This own-way-ness (i.e., self-centeredness) is synonymous with iniquity, which was laid upon Christ our sin bearer; and it was this “sin in the flesh” that Christ “condemned” on the cross [Romans 8:2-3]. Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Until you can accept that Adam was tempted in the garden of Eden, without a sinful nature, then you will ever understand that Christ could have the same experience. How can a sinless being, indwelt with agape (in the image and likeness of God) be tempted by the love of self (iniquity)? Yes? I'm waiting! Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II Until you can accept that Adam was tempted in the garden of Eden, without a sinful nature, then you will ever understand that Christ could have the same experience. How can a sinless being, indwelt with agape (in the image and likeness of God) be tempted by the love of self (iniquity)? Yes? I'm waiting! Again, we are way off subject. I'll start another thread. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II 1 Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body..... Everyone of us has gone astray, since we have all turned or bent “to his own way.” 2. This own-way-ness (i.e., self-centeredness) is synonymous with iniquity, which was laid upon Christ our sin bearer; and it was this “sin in the flesh” that Christ “condemned” on the cross [Romans 8:2-3]. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II Until you can accept that Adam was tempted in the garden of Eden, without a sinful nature, then you will ever understand that Christ could have the same experience. How can a sinless being, indwelt with agape (in the image and likeness of God) be tempted by the love of self (iniquity)? Yes? I'm waiting! Despite your denial of this possibility Robert... ...It happened in the garden of Eden to Adam and Eve. Quote
Robert Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 To support your ideas Robert you have to cut the verse short... it beats thinking that sins can be laid like a bed sheet on Christ.... Quote
Twilight II Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II To support your ideas Robert you have to cut the verse short... it beats thinking that sins can be laid like a bed sheet on Christ.... Quote
Robert Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 No metaphors here: Romans 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ Romans 6:6 we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away If our humanity died with Christ 2000 years ago - if our old self - our life from Adam - died in Him, then what type of nature did Christ assume? Well, what type of nature is in our humanity? Answer: A sinful nature - one that is bent to self. So for our humanity to have died in Christ means that Christ had to have assumed the same self fallen nature. If not, then our humanity didn't die and we still stand under the curse of the law. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 No metaphors here: Romans 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ Romans 6:6 we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away If our humanity died with Christ 2000 years ago - if our old self - our life from Adam - died in Him, then what type of nature did Christ assume? Well, what type of nature is in our humanity? Answer: A sinful nature - one that is bent to self. So for our humanity to have died in Christ means that Christ had to have assumed the same self fallen nature. If not, then our humanity didn't die and we still stand under the curse of the law. The sin of man (both the sinful nature and the sins committed) were laid on Christ at the cross. They were laid on the lamb without spot or wrinkle. As the sanctuary teaches. As does Peter. As does Paul. Quote
Robert Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 The sin of man (both the sinful nature and the sins committed) were laid on Christ at the cross. Metaphorically.... Quote
Twilight II Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II The sin of man (both the sinful nature and the sins committed) were laid on Christ at the cross. Metaphorically.... Then Christ did not die for your sins... How is it Robert that you can accept our sins were placed in Him at birth (for which there is no biblical support), but when it comes to our sin being placed on Him at the cross you reject it (for which there is overwhelming biblical evidence)? Quote
Robert Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Then Christ did not die for your sins... You said my sins where laid on Christ. I said that was metaphoric. Now you are asking another question Quote
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