Guest Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 All though... the people that teach that stuff..well, it must be nice to be able to just keep right on sinning because it don't matter, you're going to heaven no matter what you do. Right? Quote
Guest Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 No, the sin nature is eradicated at the 2nd coming, not before. Not according to Peter. Look at what he said about it, in it's context: According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who has called us to glory and virtue: By which are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And for this reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge self control; and to self control patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Peter 1:3-8 Quote
Robert Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Not according to Peter. Look at what he said about it, in it's context: According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who has called us to glory and virtue: By which are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Yes, and the divine nature is present in us through the Spirit of God, but this in no way infers that the sin nature is eradicated.... Quote
Twilight II Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II He crucifies the old nature, He doesn't suppress it. This is utterly false. Quote
joeb Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb "Jesus said, Be perfect as your Father is perfect. If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. If you are stating we are as perfect as God then Ellen White disagrees: Troll much? Or, do you have a reading comprehension problem? You quote the beginning of an Ellen White quote I gave you back to me and then go on to tell me Ellen White disagrees with the quote.... I will have a very hard time taking you seriously after this type of behavior. Do you really think Jesus was setting up everyone for failure by telling us we must be perfect even as our heavenly Father is perfect? As Ellen White says, all God's commands are enablings. After even this short exchange with you it seems to me that you seem to glorify the power of sin, and discount the power of God. It seems to me that you, from everything you've said, see sin as the unconquerable power, and the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers as a weak second. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Robert Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Then you have a problem with Paul... Quote: Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. When was Christ crucified? A: 2000 years ago. I don't know what translation you used, but correct ones read: "our old man was crucified". You see Christ took our humanity indwelt with the sin nature. When Christ died our life that He assumed died and therefore indwelling sin died too. If your nature died then you too would have died forever and we wouldn't be having this chat. Quote
Robert Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Troll much? Or, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Let's not sin and make comments like this. I thought your nature was dead? Quote
joeb Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb Troll much? Or, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Let's not sin and make comments like this. I thought your nature was dead? Assume much? Do you assume I'm angry? Do you assume I'm out to put you down? I'm not. Just wondering what you're up to. It doesn't appear to be an honest give-and-take on your part by your last few responses. Fess up. Did you misread, or not really read, the quote you said Ellen White disagreed with? What was up with that? You've misrepresented my position several times in this conversation by trying to make it appear I'm saying something I'm not. Why? What's up with all this? Clear things up for me so that I can understand where you're coming from and what's going on. If I'm mistaken I will gladly apologize for any offense given as I'm certainly not deliberately setting out to offend you. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Robert Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Assume much? Do you assume I'm angry? Do you assume I'm out to put you down? I'm not. This is putting someone down: "Troll much? Or, do you have a reading comprehension problem?" Let's play nice or not at all... Quote
Robert Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Let's not get off into the works issue....The issue is, is our nature dead or is it alive in the believer? Quote
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Yes, and the divine nature is present in us through the Spirit of God, but this in no way infers that the sin nature is eradicated.... Rom 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live. Call it whatever you like. You can say it's not eradicated yet, but it's definitely under control. Because you're putting the actual deeds of the body to death. As long as you abide in Christ, the power is there. Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Quote
Robert Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Rom 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live. Here's the NKJV: 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Compare this to Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery.... those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. The deeds of the body is the same as the works of the flesh. Those who live for their nature as a lifestyle are either babies in Christ or folks pretending to be followers of Christ. The thing is we can't judge.... The reason we are tempted to sin is because of indwelling sin. If you were free of sin you wouldn't be tempted; neither would you ever sin. Quote
Twilight II Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 As we abide in Christ, our sinful nature is kept in a state of death. Once in that condition, any temptation is the result of two things: 1. Unknown sin dwelling within, that hasn't been confessed and handed to the Lord. 2. External temptation from satan. If we start from the ground of being "dead in Christ" then we know what temptation really is and where it really comes from... Quote
joeb Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb Assume much? Do you assume I'm angry? Do you assume I'm out to put you down? I'm not. This is putting someone down: "Troll much? Or, do you have a reading comprehension problem?" Let's play nice or not at all... I agree. Play nice, Robert. Answer the questions I've put to you. Stop misrepresenting other's positions. Explain your actions in playing Ellen White against herself. I'm not picking on you. I'm holding you accountable for your actions. Isn't that what you're doing to me from your point of view? Take your own admonition and play nice. Misrepresentation is NOT "playing nice". Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Robert Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 As we abide in Christ, our sinful nature is kept in a state of death. Quote
Robert Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 As we abide in Christ, our sinful nature is kept in a state of death. Once in that condition, any temptation is the result of two things: 1. Unknown sin dwelling within, that hasn't been confessed and handed to the Lord. 2. External temptation from satan. You act as if our human nature becomes better or holy. This is ridiculous. Human nature is 100% rotten. Paul states, "I know that in me, that is in my flesh, there's nothing good." Quote
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 The reason we are tempted to sin is because of indwelling sin. If you were free of sin you wouldn't be tempted; neither would you ever sin. Now that is just nonsense. Indwelling sin is NOT what tempts you. And it is not a sin to be tempted. Even Jesus was tempted. Quote
Robert Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Indwelling sin is NOT what tempts you. You are kidding me, right? Quote
Robert Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: RLH Indwelling sin is NOT what tempts you. You are kidding me, right? James 4:1 Where do wars and fightings among you come from? Don't they come from your pleasures (your bent to self) that war in your members? What is battling? The flesh and it's bent to self and God's Spirit, in the heart of the converted, which is the opposite of iniquity, i.e., agape. Paul states it best: Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man (the converted man), 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind.... So you have the flesh - the members of my body - where the desires of our human nature wants our mind to participate in it's lust. In the unconverted the flesh and mind are in harmony, but in the converted the flesh and the mind are in opposition. Hence they war against each other. The mind wants to live for God's agape and the flesh wants the mind to live for sin. Quote
joeb Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb Answer the questions I've put to you. You're not my boss, so don't tell me what to do. Thanks. Quote: Stop misrepresenting other's positions. Explain your actions in playing Ellen White against herself. I'm not.... Well, Robert, I'll give you one more chance to be honest with me before I call an end to our discussion. You've misrepresented my position several times already, and you've obviously played Ellen White against herself. This (#481172) post of mine on this thread, and your reply(#481249) to it is clear proof of your behavior. There was nothing in my words in that post to lend credence to your representation of my position. And you clearly quoted Ellen White and said she disagrees with the her own words. There's also other instances where you've clearly misrepresented my position by attributing positions to me that I've never taken so that you could argue against something I've never said. Please allow us to have a harmonious search for truth between us, not an end to communication between us, as each of us have the right to expect honest communication between Christian brothers, even when we disagree. I want to search for truth, not play dueling quotes, so if I have to stop responding to you it will be because of that. I see no sense in pointless argument. It gets none of us anywhere that is good. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 6, 2011 Moderators Posted October 6, 2011 ...The reason we are tempted to sin is because of indwelling sin. If you were free of sin you wouldn't be tempted; neither would you ever sin. Not necessarily true. Remember that Adam and Eve were tempted and sinned before they ever had indwelling sin. Are you using "indwelling sin" as a synonym for "fallen nature" and "sinful nature"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Not necessarily true. Remember that Adam and Eve were tempted and sinned before they ever had indwelling sin. Quote
Robert Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 You've misrepresented my position several times already, and you've obviously played Ellen White against herself. This (#481172) post of mine on this thread, and your reply(#481249) to it is clear proof of your behavior. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 6, 2011 Moderators Posted October 6, 2011 Are you using "indwelling sin" as a synonym for "fallen nature" and "sinful nature"? Originally Posted By: Robert yes... Jesus took a fallen nature, but not a falling nature. There's a difference, right? So Jesus took sinful flesh but not a sinful mind. Would you say then that Jesus had "indwelling sin"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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