Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Read my post on Huldah and Deborah two OT woman pastors. Where does it say they were pastors miz3?
Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; ^^Try this one Woody... Unless you are claiming a husband can be a woman, seems clear that a bishop should be male... Now I have presented my evidence, where is yours? You need to reread my explanation of that very text. Or did you conveniently overlook that one. I did read your explanation and it did not make any sense. I believe others responded to it and pointed out the flaws in your logic. But to your credit, at least you are trying to make a biblical case.
Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Still no answer, where did GOD/CHRIST say directly women should be ordained from the Bible? Stop going down the road "well, its understood". The question is still not answered, why would God and where did God??? Woody can't find the illusive verse, CoAspen has searched in vain. I'll even accept a Spirit of Prophecy quote! Even ONE? Does't exist CV... Thats that whole problem.
Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Equality of leadership in the home and church is a secular ideal promoted through feminism CV. You will not find it in the Bible, because it is a direct attack on Gods Edict in Eden.
Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 "I'm sorry, but Ted Wilson actions are shameful..." Seriously, you think the G.C. President should violate his oath of office and ignore the board of directors and proceed of his own accord to ordain a women? Seriously? What blows me away about the twisted interpretation of these events is that if people are SO EASILY fooled by this you won't have a chance of understanding delusion and deception when it comes. Not a chance. You cannot trust what you think you see, what you feel, what you think might be right. You HAVE to base your decisions on biblical and Spirit of Prophecy principles. You have to be able to reason from cause to effect. The inability of so many people being unable to do this is astonishing! How is it possible you could come to the conclusion that Ted Wilson should have acted alone, literally in spite of the prevailing rules, constitution and understanding of the World Church Policies? Do you have any idea what this would have meant? We have a KING, subject to no one! If a President (POTUS) were to act in this manner it would be an impeachable offense! ...the sheer stupidity of condeming Ted Wilsons actions just blows my mind. A total mob mentality, ripe for the latest card trick, you guys won't have a chance when Satan proclaims himself Christ. You'll fold like a house of cards. Amen. But they are not listening... Others are though, so be encouraged.
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Posted December 7, 2011 Bishop, bishop....since when did the SDA church have Bishops and priests??? ...Come on, don't use the excuse that bishop means pastor, mankind adding definitions. If people are going to stick to obvious cultural circumstances for 'no women' then we should stick by 'bishops'!! Elders, pastors, and bishops were the names given to the leaders of the local churches in the first century. "Priests" came much later when heresy began to creep into the church. In those times, "elders" did the work of church ministers and pastors. The fact that church officers had different names doesn't affect the principle that men were the primary leaders and that the Holy Spirit instructed Paul to write as he did in 1 Cor. 11, 14 and 1 Tim. 2. Paul's explanation for his instructions show that he wasn't attributing them to cultural circumstances. Remember that Paul pointed to the events that took place in Eden. Why did Paul do this? What does the fact that Adam was created first have to do with who is the leader in the home and the church? What does it matter that Eve was deceived and Adam was not? What difference does it make that the husband is the head of the wife? What do you think? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Posted December 7, 2011 You still have a problem Twilight. Your "Edict in Eden" covers only the home but does not cover anywhere else. What you are failing to consider is the close relationship between what happens in the church and what happens in the home. How could women's leadership in the church NOT affect the leadership in the home? That would be impossible. The two go together, just as the Bible shows. That is why the Bible has men as the leaders in both the home and in the church. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Twilight II Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 You still have a problem Twilight. Your "Edict in Eden" covers only the home but does not cover anywhere else. What you are failing to consider is the close relationship between what happens in the church and what happens in the home. How could women's leadership in the church NOT affect the leadership in the home? That would be impossible. The two go together, just as the Bible shows. That is why the Bible has men as the leaders in both the home and in the church. Indeed.
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Posted December 7, 2011 Read my post on Huldah and Deborah two OT woman pastors. Miz3, Huldah and Deborah were not pastors; Deborah was a judge, the only female Judge in the Old Testament; and Huldah was a prophet. Both were raised up directly by God; they were not selected by humans. Also notice that their work was significantly different from the male Judges and the male prophets. For instance, Deborah sat under a tree and let the people come to her in private. She didn't lead the men in battle-- in fact, she refused to do that. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2011 Members Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Scripture does not agree with your "male chauvinist" view. Is Paul also a "male chauvinist"? Many who favor women's "liberation" believe he is. I am waiting to see if any of the people who favor women as elders and pastors will either agree or disagree with your statement. I for one favor women being elders and/or pastors. I do not agree with miz3's statement. I have not seen one angry statement from those who disagree with WO, but have seen many uncalled statements from those in favor of WO. I think that's pretty interesting. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Posted December 7, 2011 I for one favor women being elders and/or pastors. I do not agree with miz3's statement. I have not seen one angry statement from those who disagree with WO, but have seen many uncalled statements from those in favor of WO. I think that's pretty interesting. Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, pk. I have absolutely no anger towards people on either side of this issue. I just enjoy discussing it and learning from people on both sides. AdventistClub is fun for me, and is really like my church. :-) John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2011 Members Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Read my post on Huldah and Deborah two OT woman pastors. Miz3, Huldah and Deborah were not pastors; Deborah was a judge, the only female Judge in the Old Testament; and Huldah was a prophet. Both were raised up directly by God; they were not selected by humans. Also notice that their work was significantly different from the male Judges and the male prophets. For instance, Deborah sat under a tree and let the people come to her in private. She didn't lead the men in battle-- in fact, she refused to do that. I was just gonna post the same thing John. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Quote: Reread the article again. She could not move away from the podium, not with out causing a BIG disturbance. And the men did not make a way for her to remove herself. If anything, here was the Hand of God, telling the church that God was intervining and telling us to listen to Him and ordain the worthy woman.... Excellent observation May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators Bravus Posted December 8, 2011 Moderators Posted December 8, 2011 When God gets back, She's gonna be annoyed... Truth is important
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Quote: Both were raised up directly by God; they were not selected by humans. I would propose that its the female pastor now that is directly raised up by God for such a time as this. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 When God gets back, She's gonna be annoyed... May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
olger Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 Still no answer, where did GOD/CHRIST say directly women should be ordained from the Bible? Stop going down the road "well, its understood". The question is still not answered, why would God and where did God??? Woody can't find the illusive verse, CoAspen has searched in vain. I'll even accept a Spirit of Prophecy quote! Even ONE? Does't exist CV... Thats that whole problem. Indeed. "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Overaged Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Bishop, bishop....since when did the SDA church have Bishops and priests??? "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Overaged Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 When God gets back, She's gonna be annoyed... lol "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: CoAspen Bishop, bishop....since when did the SDA church have Bishops and priests??? Good to see someone with a little humor in this thread. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
CoAspen Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Still no answer, where did GOD/CHRIST say directly women should be ordained from the Bible? Stop going down the road "well, its understood". The question is still not answered, why would God and where did God??? Woody can't find the illusive verse, CoAspen has searched in vain. I'll even accept a Spirit of Prophecy quote! Even ONE?
Overaged Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Quote: Women constitute only a small percentage of Seventh-day Adventist pastors. Without ministerial ordination, the women function as pastors within their own church, but lack authorization to carry out certain administrative tasks at the conference level. On the other hand, women are often dynamic lay leaders of their churches. They also function in the church’s departments and committees, at conference, union, division, and General Conference levels. Dederen, R. (2001, c2000). Vol. 12: Handbook of Seventh-Day Adventist Theology (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Commentary Reference Series (20). Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association. Hey all, what's the problem? You are all arguing about nothing. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Quote: Women constitute only a small percentage of Seventh-day Adventist pastors. Problem is Overaged - instead of just a small percentage - there must be a majority to properly represent our church population. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Quote: I think we are arriving at the root of the problem....misquoting and insinuations!! But still no answer to my ORIGINAL question! I'm praying hard CoA that we will by some miracle get a Biblical answer from that side. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
miz3 Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Bishop, bishop....since when did the SDA church have Bishops and priests??? A lame, lame excuse. Cultural, cultural and cultural. Its time men quit using God as an excuse, He never decreed it to begin with, as just own up, they don't think women can handle the job. Come on, don't use the excuse that bishop means pastor, mankind adding definitions. If people are going to stick to obvious cultural circumstances for 'no women' then we should stick by 'bishops'!! Still no answer, where did GOD/CHRIST forbid women directly from the Bible! Stop going down the road "well, its understood". The question still not answered, why would God and where did God??? Can you tell how I think about this?
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