Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[John317]

Does God wish all to be saved? Yes. “who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1 Tim. 2:4.

Of course God wishes all to be saved. Yet we must also consider the fact that God is love. Our God of love won't force people against their will to accept Him.

If God wanted to, He could overwhelm each individual with the evidence, compelling everyone to acknowledge Him, but because of His love for us and because of His respect for our freedom to choose, He doesn't do it.

[John317]

Therefore, it is apparent that God is able to save what was lost, and since He desires to save all that was lost, He has promised to do just that.

God has promised that He will do everything He can to save us-- short of forcing people to give up their sins and be saved.

If He'd wanted to, He could have forced Lucifer to stop His rebellion or even kept him from rebelling in the first place. As it is, God allowed 1/3 of the angels to rebel against Him and to side with Satan. It proves that God doesn't compel His creatures to choose Him.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

Can God do anything He wishes? Yes. All that Yahweh delights He does, In the heavens and on earth, In the seas and every abyss Ps. 135:6. See Matt. 19:25, 26.

But one thing God won't do is force people to choose to accept Him. God makes it possible for everyone to accept Him, but not all choose to allow God into their lives.

It's true that none of us would have a desire for God without the Holy Spirit, but again, God doesn't force anyone to surrender themselves to Him. God gets pleasure only out of worship and obedience that is freely, willingly and intelligently given.

Sooner or later the "force" of God's love will result in the salvation of everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, especially their stubborn will.

#108 - LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON

“The lake of fire will be abolished when it burns itself out because there is no evil left for it to feed upon, and the whole universe will throb with joy when the second death is abolished with the successful completion of the great and glorious work the Lord Jesus will bring to full fruition with the perfecting of all in the heavens and on earth.

What a prospect! God’s purpose of the ages (Eph. 3:11) fulfilled in perfect accord with His irresistible will. ‘And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, ‘Unto Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for the ages of the ages (Rev. 5:13) – a grand Hallelujah Chorus echoing through the boundless universe and proclaiming that God IS Love.”

[John317]

Sooner or later the "force" of God's love will result in the salvation of everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, especially their stubborn will.

Does the Bible clearly teach this? If so, where?

Lucifer rebelled in the very presence of God. What more could God show or do for Satan to cause the Devil to change his thinking?

[rodgertutt]

#109 - UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON

“The original scriptures taught final universal salvation; but translators usually rejected that theme. So they added to, or dropped words, to make the text conform to their wrong thinking. They could not eradicate the original theme; but we inherited their wrong thinking in our translations, and so we have the resulting direct contradictions. Unknown time periods they made endless.

Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).

‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).

Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16).

EDITOR’S NOTE: Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

[John317]

Faith in God’s promises, an acquaintance with His character and power, sequential logic, and the history of the early church all support universal reconciliation.

The history of the early church certainly doesn't favor the doctrine of universal salvation. False teachings about the topic came into the church through heretics such as Origen, and we don't find those teachings in the New Testament church or in the New Testament itself. Universal salvation was never the typical or accepted teaching of the Christian church.

We should have faith in God's promises, for sure; but we also need to keep in mind all the rest of the Bible, including God's threatenings concerning the destruction of the wicked.

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

Faith in God’s promises, an acquaintance with His character and power, sequential logic, and the history of the early church all support universal reconciliation.

The history of the early church certainly doesn't favor the doctrine of universal salvation.

Here is the proof that you are so very wrong.

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.”

And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

[John317]

- LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON

The lake of fire will be abolished when it burns itself out because there is no evil left for it to feed upon,

How will this happen? Will God force people to give up their wickedness and their love of sin?

You apparently don't believe the "lake of fire" is actually fire, yet there's nothing in the Bible to indicate the fire doesn't destroy the wicked just as the Scriptures teach.

The Bible doesn't say the "lake of fire" saves people; it says the fire "destroys" them and turns them into ashes. How then can you claim that God's Word teaches that the fire will result in the salvation of the wicked?

[dialoguewithus]

1 Timothy 5:21 (CLV)

I am conjuring, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the chosen messengers, that you should guard these things, apart from prejudice,

The messengers (angels), like mankind, and any other creatures which God has made, do as He wills. Ro. 8:20. Some are chosen to be "believers" now; others aren't.

Likewise the law does as He wills it to do. Ro. 5:20.

Free will is the theory you're operating under, John317. As long as that's the case, I think it's best we agree to disagree as we'll never see eye to eye. God bless.

[rodgertutt]

#111 - ALL AND ALL IN ALL – VINCE HOLLANDER AND HENRY BULLER

“This is a power packed and mind shaking question!!

To wit:

How can every creature which is in the heavens and on earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea and all that are in them (describing every living soul made by God) which includes everyone that has come from every dimension of life or death, or everything that came out from God … say, Blessing and honor and glory and power unto the Lamb Jesus Christ the heart of the Father, if they are not all going to be enjoying Him as we who now believe are? Does this not describe and give witness to the day of the reconciliation of all unto God where they came from?”

God will not be defeated in the slightest --- for ‘There are diversities of operations, but it is the same God Who worketh all in all (1Cor. 12:6).

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: rodgertutt

- LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON

The lake of fire will be abolished when it burns itself out because there is no evil left for it to feed upon,

How will this happen? Will God force people to give up their wickedness and their love of sin?

You apparently don't believe the "lake of fire" is actually fire, yet there's nothing in the Bible to indicate the fire doesn't destroy the wicked just as the Scriptures teach.

The Bible doesn't say the "lake of fire" saves people; it says the fire "destroys" them and turns them into ashes. How then can you claim that God's Word teaches that the fire will result in the salvation of the wicked?

The destruction is eonian, not eternal.

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

[rodgertutt]

#112 - THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN

Ultimate salvation is something that has been secured by Christ for all mankind without the works of man (either good or bad) being involved in the issue. Everyone will finally be saved and brought to a full knowledge of the truth of God. All humans will finally be forgiven for their sins and they will become reconciled to God. All things in the heavens, on earth and under the earth (the angels who are kept in chains in the bowels of the earth) will one day proclaim the Lordship of Christ to the glory of God the Father.

But it will not only be all humans who are reconciled to God (now that God has reconciled Himself to mankind). The reconciliation will reach out to embrace all the hostile powers which have been out of harmony with God over the centuries. There is prophesied, according to Paul, a full reconciliation between all the antagonistic beings throughout the universe. Even they will be reconciled amongst themselves,

Between themselves and mankind, and between themselves and God the Father (Col. 1:20). All grievances, both divine and human, are disposed of through the life and death of Christ our Saviour. Peace has been, or will be established between all hostile parties throughout the universe.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

Faith in God’s promises, an acquaintance with His character and power, sequential logic, and the history of the early church all support universal reconciliation.

The history of the early church certainly doesn't favor the doctrine of universal salvation.

Originally Posted By: rodgertutt

Here is the proof that you are so very wrong.

Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

This is no proof of anything. The writer's whole argument is based on the fact that the early Christian writings outside the NT don't mention endless torment or describe the length of time that the wicked are punished.

They do, however, refer to the coming of Christ to "judge the quick [living] and the dead." When we consider the NT teaching regarding Christ's coming as Judge, we recognize that at the Judgment, Christ separates the goats from the sheep, and then the goats are thrown into the fire.

The NT also contains the following reference to the Judgment, showing that the wicked are not saved:

Matthew 24:48-51

But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' [49] and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, [50] the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know

[51] and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No indication here that the wicked will eventually enjoy eternal life with God.

[rodgertutt]

#113 - THE EARLY VIEW OF THE SAVIOR – GARY AMIRAULT

“When one looks at the first 500 years of Christianity, not one creed denied “Universal Restoration;” no church council condemned “Universal Restoration.”

[John317]

That's an argument based on silence-- never a valid argument.

The fact is that the early church councils had no reason to condemn what it doesn't consider a serious threat to the church's doctrines. Given the clear teachings of the NT that the wicked will eventually be destroyed after the Great White Throne Judgment, the early church didn't consider it necessary to condemn the false teaching of Universal salvation. The truth is that very few held to that idea in the early centuries. It wasn't seen as a genuine threat to the church.

[John317]

John317, how do you relate to the Bible's plain, clear testimony concerning the vessels of mercy and the vessels of indignation in Romans chapter 9?

Can you show where Romans 9 clearly teaches that everyone who's ever lived will eventually saved in God's eternal kingdom.

Quote:

Romans 9:1-33

I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— [2] that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. [3] For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. [4] They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. [5] To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

[6] But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, [7] and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." [8] This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. [9] For this is what the promise said: "About this time next year I will return and Sarah shall have a son." [10] And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, [11] though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call— [12] she was told, "The older will serve the younger." [13] As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! [15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." [16] So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [17] For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." [18] So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

[19] You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" [20] But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" [21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? [22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, [23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— [24] even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? [25] As indeed he says in Hosea,

"Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'

and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.' "

[26] "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'

there they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "

[27] And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, [28] for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay." [29] And as Isaiah predicted,

"If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,

we would have been like Sodom

and become like Gomorrah."

[30] What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; [31] but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. [32] Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, [33] as it is written,

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;

and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

[rodgertutt]

#114 - ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

This is a writing showing that the Doctrine of Eternal Death finds no support in the Greek or Hebrew texts. While the teaching makes the Christian God more loving and merciful than the Doctrine of Eternal Torment, there is a much more Scriptural way of proving that our Father’s mercy extends far beyond “Eternal Death,” or “Eternal Punishment.”

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

[dialoguewithus]

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

John317, how do you relate to the Bible's plain, clear testimony concerning the vessels of mercy and the vessels of indignation in Romans chapter 9?

Can you show where Romans 9 clearly teaches that everyone who's ever lived will eventually saved in God's eternal kingdom.

Not offhand, no. I never claimed I could.

I find it interesting that we hear repeatedly how "gentlemanly" God is with regards to us sinners, how He wouldn't force us against our will, and so on. First, we don't believe anyone will be saved against their will; we believe in universal RECONCILIATION. We believe that all hearts are in God's hands, and that He, as the omnipotent Creator, is more than able to bring all to Himself. In fact, we accept the Bible evidence that not only are we incapable of accepting salvation apart from His work in us, but also, that He will eventually do that work in each heart. And I'd like to know where this much-mentioned "gentlemanlyness" (if that's a word) was when God, in Adam, condemned an entire race to sin and mortality. Supposedly,(according to the theory) His insistence on respecting our individual choices didn't kick in until we were "fallen in sin".

[rodgertutt]

#114 - ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

This is a writing showing that the Doctrine of Eternal Death finds no support in the Greek or Hebrew texts. While the teaching makes the Christian God more loving and merciful than the Doctrine of Eternal Torment, there is a much more Scriptural way of proving that our Father’s mercy extends far beyond “Eternal Death,” or “Eternal Punishment.”

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

#116 - THE SECOND DEATH – A.E. SAXBY

The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit mean by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’

When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ”

[John317]

...

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

....Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

It's very important in the study of the Bible to consider all the texts that deal with a subject. So, in this case, we should study every verse in Scripture that has to do with what happens with the wicked.

ESV--Matthew 25:46:

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

The punishment of the lost lasts for eternity, just as the life of the saved continues for eternity.

There's nothing in the Bible indicating that God will resurrect the wicked after the second death.

The first death is the death people die after this life.

The second death occurs after the resurrection of the wicked.

Rev. 21:8

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

The Bible teaches that the wicked are destroyed and consumed-- reduced to ashes-- by the fire that comes down out of heaven and consumes them.

Rev. 20:9

And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

This is the second death, a death from which there is no awakening.

Nowhere does the book of Revelation (or any other book of the Bible) suggest that the wicked rise up after they have been consumed by the fire that comes down on them out of heaven and become righteous citizens of God's eternal kingdom.

[rodgertutt]

#117 - OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX

“God is a despot. Paul in Ephesians 1:11, speaks of ‘the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will.’ Yes, God exercise a despotic sway over the whole universe, but we are thankful for this because He is Love. Though He will brook no opposition to the furtherance of His purpose, He is never a tyrant. When He inflicts evil upon any, it is always in order that good may follow. His sovereign will is the ultimate salvation and blessing of all, that He may be All in all.

For all creation in its need,

The future is engraved

In words of life, for all to read,

‘In grace shall you be saved.’

Let every mental conflict cease,

Let every barrier fall,

For grace removes each bar to peace

Till Thou art All in all.

O God, how glorious is Thy grace!

How radiantly divine!

It stretches out its wide embrace,

To make all creatures Thine.

When God is All in all, the whole creation will have become His achievement, and every member will be a beneficiary of His OVERWHELMING GRACE.”

[rodgertutt]

ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

This is a writing showing that the Doctrine of Eternal Death finds no support in the Greek or Hebrew texts. While the teaching makes the Christian God more loving and merciful than the Doctrine of Eternal Torment, there is a much more Scriptural way of proving that our Father’s mercy extends far beyond “Eternal Death,” or “Eternal Punishment.”

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

[John317]

I find it interesting that we hear repeatedly how "gentlemanly" God is with regards to us sinners, how He wouldn't force us against our will, and so on. First, we don't believe anyone will be saved against their will; we believe in universal RECONCILIATION. We believe that all hearts are in God's hands, and that He, as the omnipotent Creator, is more than able to bring all to Himself. In fact, we accept the Bible evidence that not only are we incapable of accepting salvation apart from His work in us, but also, that He will eventually do that work in each heart.

If God was going to do what you claim, why would He choose to do it only after the Great White Throne Judgment and after the fire comes down out of heaven and consumes the wicked?

Why not cause universal "reconciliation" before all that suffering and death?

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

And I'd like to know where this much-mentioned "gentlemanlyness" (if that's a word) was when God, in Adam, condemned an entire race to sin and mortality. Supposedly,(according to the theory) His insistence on respecting our individual choices didn't kick in until we were "fallen in sin".

God made Adam and Eve free moral agents, and they chose to disobey the command of God and to accept the words of Satan. God respected their decision, even though it obviously caused Him great sadness. He cast them out of Eden in order to prevent them from eating of the Tree of Life and living forever. Gen. 3: 22-24.

[rodgertutt]

#118 - THE GOSPEL OF GRACE – CHARLES W. WELLER

“Love conquers all, for it is the love of God that allows humanity to see its frailty that in the bitter dregs it may choose life. I thank the Lord that the plan of redemption wasn’t a stop gap measure but a well thought out plan that in the fullness of time, all will have Christ as their head. Victory in Jesus!

Before creation there was no time. Since creation there has been time. But with the consummation of things and God becoming All in all, time will end, and sin, which is limited by time shall end. Yet, God and creation shall go on.

If God cannot surmount the evil in the world and turn it all into good, then there is a power equal and opposite to Him. But sin isn’t eternal. The cross of Calvary isn’t a ‘hope so’ move by God, but rather, a well conceived thought out solution to the problem of sin. There is an end to sin and to the death it causes. All shall be swallowed up into victory. Some, God has planned to accept Him now. Others, like Pharaoh, He hardens their heart. But being a righteous Judge He will show wrath on those who need it to cleanse them of their fallen nature.

The plan of God is such that His grace, that unmerited favor, will cause man and all of creation to be restored. Great was the joy of the father for the return of his son. How much more so will God be rejoicing at the restitution of all.

A father never beats a child to death for wrong, but corrects and loves regardless. Even so is our Heavenly Father. The mercy and love of God is to be so revealed that Jesus shall be All in all.

The purpose for the present is to save some. The purpose for the future is to save all. Because men have failed to see and understand the doctrine of election, it has propagated false ideas of salvation. Even he who dies in sin shall be saved as by fire. Victorious grace covers a larger redemption than many would consider.”

[Lysimachus]

Good luck John317!

I don't think Rudgertutt or Dialoguewithus are grappling with your arguments. They are like steamrollers who could care less about what is in front of them. They pay no attention to the arguments, they just keep copying nonsense from authors hoping that maybe somehow the authors they are copying and pasting from will address your arguments, but they don't. They're just a bunch of fluffy words on paper with no substance.

The doctrine of Universalism is most certainly an appeasing doctrine for those who love their sins. It is a doctrine of Devils. A heresy of the highest order.

And those who continue to hold to this doctrine will be disappointed in the end. Guaranteed. Without question.