Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[rodgertutt]

Quote:

It's very important in the study of the Bible to consider all the texts that deal with a subject. So, in this case, we should study every verse in Scripture that has to do with what happens with the wicked.

Exactly!

And that is why I invite you to read why Gary Amirault converted to UR from AN.

#114 - ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

This is a writing showing that the Doctrine of Eternal Death finds no support in the Greek or Hebrew texts. While the teaching makes the Christian God more loving and merciful than the Doctrine of Eternal Torment, there is a much more Scriptural way of proving that our Father’s mercy extends far beyond “Eternal Death,” or “Eternal Punishment.”

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

[rodgertutt]

#121 - THE GOSPEL – BERT BAUMAN

The scriptures suggest that God’s judgments are desirable but not necessarily enjoyable. It is never pleasant to be judged, but the fruit of judgment is desirable. Correction produces righteousness which yields the fruit of the Spirit. Therefore, while the chastening is unpleasant, the results are a blessing. Out of love for His creatures, God chastens, and corrects. He judges His creatures for their own good.

Did not Jesus teach us to love and do good even to our enemies? And while He admonishes us to be perfect even as our heavenly Father, would our Father be less than we are expected to be? Can love pour out vengeance for its own gratification, or judge to satisfy its own sense of justice? The result of God’s judgments must ultimately be profitable and beneficial to the one being punished, ‘for the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them’ (Luke 9:56).”

[rodgertutt]

John317, How do you relate to the Bible's plain, clear testimony concerning the vessels of mercy and the vessels of indignation in Romans chapter 9? Do you accept these truths or do you prefer mythological ideas like "free will"?

Sooner or later everyone is going to learn that they started trusting in Jesus as thir Saviour ONLY because God laid hold on them by His sovereign grace and CAUSED Jesus to be "choice" in their heart, just like He did for Lydia, and Saul of Tarsus.

Until that happens, everyone will remain in the condition of Romans 3:10-18.

God's timing for the salvation of every individual is by His grace alone, plus nothing. Our choosing Jesus is the RESULT, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace.

Sooner or later because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, He is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, especially their stubborn will.

#123 - MAN’S FAILURE OR GOD’S SUCCESS – WHICH WILL STAND? – LEE SALISBURY

“The teaching of the ultimate exaltation of Jesus Christ and the ultimate reconciliation of all men unto Him, make God’s judgments consistent with His plan of creation. God’s judgments become understandable, purposeful, and constructive without violating any aspect of justice, truth, or mercy. God’s judgments are redemptive.

The end result of God’s judgments is, ‘That in the Name of Jesus every knee will bow, celestial, terrestrial, and subterranean, and every tongue will acclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God the Father (Phil. 2:10,11). God planned for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, both in the heavens, and on earth (Eph. 1:10). Amplified Bible

[BobRyan]

In Romans 9 God says that he "endures with much patience" vessels of wrath - those whom He foreknows will never choose to accept the Gospel and be saved - "in order that" He can demonstrate to the saved just how merciful an loving He really is that He would not simply ignore those whom He knows will NOT be saved!!

When the saved saints see just how true it is that "God so Loved the World! Yes Really!" even in the case of those who are destined for the lake of fire - who will not be saved they will know the truth of "God So Loved the World" even those He foreknew would never accept Him and would perish in the lake of fire.

when they see that "God made Christ the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD -- yes really!" even for those who will end up in the lake of fire - they know just how loving and kind He is to provide for ALL.

1John 2:1-2... when they see that "He is not willing for any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance -- yes really!" 2Peter 3... when they see the truth of "O Jerusalem How I WANTED to spare your children... but YOU would not" Matt 23 as spoken to the CHOSEN nation... then they will know for certain that this is not case of God "Arbitrarily selecting the FEW of Matt 7 to love and save" --- while ignoring the "MANY" of mankind the way that Calvinists have suggested.

Yes as it turns out - Jesus was correct in Matthew 7 -- it is the MANY that are lost among mankind and only the FEW that will be saved in the end.

in Christ,

Bob

[rodgertutt]

#125 - JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN? (SERIES OF16 VOLUMES) J. PRESTON EBY

A great introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.

J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.

Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective.

Highly Recommended!

Internet version

http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

[BobRyan]

Quote:

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

That much is true. And the bible says that the one that is true is the 2nd one - in Matt 7 the MANY are lost. In Matt 25 the goats are lost. In Rev 20 all the wicked world that did not accept the Gospel burn along with the devil and his angels in the lake of fire.

In the first statement - the claim is made that you must include ALL the texts in the "truth" and as soon as the ones above are IN THE MIX - then the mix by definition includes the majority of earth - going to the lake of fire and not heaven.

The wicked do not die "for lack of mercy on God's part" - that would be a fallacy not supported in scripture. That much we can all agree on. They die because they choose darkness rather than light.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Good luck John317!

I don't think Rudgertutt or Dialoguewithus are grappling with your arguments. They are like steamrollers who could care less about what is in front of them. They pay no attention to the arguments, they just keep copying nonsense .

It is not at all clear that they are even reading this thread.

in Christ,

Bob

[rodgertutt]

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

See what other Greek scholars say about it too.

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.

AIÓN – AIÓNIOS

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.shtml

SEE

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

Good luck John317!

I don't think Rudgertutt or Dialoguewithus are grappling with your arguments. They are like steamrollers who could care less about what is in front of them. They pay no attention to the arguments, they just keep copying nonsense .

It is not at all clear that they are even reading this thread.

in Christ,

Bob

I invite you to read why Gary Amirault converted to UR from AN.

#114 - ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

This is a writing showing that the Doctrine of Eternal Death finds no support in the Greek or Hebrew texts. While the teaching makes the Christian God more loving and merciful than the Doctrine of Eternal Torment, there is a much more Scriptural way of proving that our Father’s mercy extends far beyond “Eternal Death,” or “Eternal Punishment.”

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

[dialoguewithus]

ESV--Matthew 25:46:

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

The punishment of the lost lasts for eternity, just as the life of the saved continues for eternity.

"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." (Literal translation, rather than a "translation" based on false doctrines)

Verse 31 shows this takes place at the second coming.

Chastening, in the Bible and in other writings, is for the purpose of reformation. It will be eonian; pertaining to the two oncoming eons, although in this case it will be during one eon, the millennium.

The saints will enjoy eonian life, for the two final eons.

Other verse tell us that all will have life once the eons end.

As for Adam and Eve being free moral agents, God could very well have made each of us free moral agents if that's how He wanted to do things- we could each be individually tested, and death would only pertain to those who failed their test. Nevertheless, as Paul explains in Romans 5 and 1 Cor. 15, God subjected the creation to vanity in one man (Ro. 8:20); the only choice involved was Adam's and that was well known by God from before his creation. Paul continues, THUS ALSO, that is,, through the choice of Christ as outlined in Phil. 2, does God's grace superabound. THUS ALSO, we are saved as we were lost, through God's determination. And He does it in two main stages or classes (1 Cor. 15:20-28; Ro. 9; Acts 13:13; 2 Thes. 2:13), which He has decided beforehand to exist until the consummation at the end of the eons.

I know it's very "convenient" to have words such as eon and eonian which , it is claimed, can mean whatever the context dictates, and then define the context according to our personal philosophy, and, lo and behold, we have the doctrine we desire. Nevertheless, when the words are simply transliterated into English, the honest reader is able to compare the uses of identical or similar usages and reach his own conclusions as to meaning rather than dealing with the translator's theology instead. For example, we read of the saints' rule during the eons of the eons, and we read of Satan's torment during the eons of the eons. These are the same two eons, regardless of how someone might want to spin it.

Salvation is of God, not 50%, not 90%, not 99%, but 100%.

All our faith, our right choices, our obedience, our right understanding, comes from Him, so we mustn't boast as if not obtaining. And we mustn't limit God by man-made doctrines of partiality; God is the Savior (the One who saves) of all mankind, ESPECIALLY of believers (the vessels of mercy, who alone enjoy eonian salvation). Everyone will enjoy salvation after the eons, for death will be abolished for all mankind. 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

[rodgertutt]

ESV--Matthew 25:46:

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

The punishment of the lost lasts for eternity, just as the life of the saved continues for eternity.

"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." (Literal translation, rather than a "translation" based on false doctrines)

Verse 31 shows this takes place at the second coming.

Chastening, in the Bible and in other writings, is for the purpose of reformation. It will be eonian; pertaining to the two oncoming eons, although in this case it will be during one eon, the millennium.

The saints will enjoy eonian life, for the two final eons.

Other verse tell us that all will have life once the eons end.

As for Adam and Eve being free moral agents, God could very well have made each of us free moral agents if that's how He wanted to do things- we could each be individually tested, and death would only pertain to those who failed their test. Nevertheless, as Paul explains in Romans 5 and 1 Cor. 15, God subjected the creation to vanity in one man (Ro. 8:20); the only choice involved was Adam's and that was well known by God from before his creation. Paul continues, THUS ALSO, that is,, through the choice of Christ as outlined in Phil. 2, does God's grace superabound. THUS ALSO, we are saved as we were lost, through God's determination. And He does it in two main stages or classes (1 Cor. 15:20-28; Ro. 9; Acts 13:13; 2 Thes. 2:13), which He has decided beforehand to exist until the consummation at the end of the eons.

I know it's very "convenient" to have words such as eon and eonian which , it is claimed, can mean whatever the context dictates, and then define the context according to our personal philosophy, and, lo and behold, we have the doctrine we desire. Nevertheless, when the words are simply transliterated into English, the honest reader is able to compare the uses of identical or similar usages and reach his own conclusions as to meaning rather than dealing with the translator's theology instead. For example, we read of the saints' rule during the eons of the eons, and we read of Satan's torment during the eons of the eons. These are the same two eons, regardless of how someone might want to spin it.

Salvation is of God, not 50%, not 90%, not 99%, but 100%.

All our faith, our right choices, our obedience, our right understanding, comes from Him, so we mustn't boast as if not obtaining. And we mustn't limit God by man-made doctrines of partiality; God is the Savior (the One who saves) of all mankind, ESPECIALLY of believers (the vessels of mercy, who alone enjoy eonian salvation). Everyone will enjoy salvation after the eons, for death will be abolished for all mankind. 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

#126 – FUNDAMENTALS OR BASIS OF BELIEF – Thomas Griffith

“We will get good out of evil. Our gracious Educator does evolve for us out of corruption, temptation and sin, new purposes, new skill, new triumphs.

Beyond the overruling of intermediate evil into subserviency to a higher good, what has been superinduced as a transition state of things is therefore seen to be necessary only for a time. It will pass away with the functions which it is made to fulfill. It will at last be superseded by the highest good for everyone.”

[dialoguewithus]

"It is not at all clear that they are even reading this thread."

My brother, if we weren't reading the thread, how could we be responding to and explaining our understanding in regards to the matters which are being raised? Have we responded to each individual question or verse? No, nor have the other participants responded to all of our questions and verses. But we are interacting, virtually, and I wish you the best, Bob. Did you realize, Bob, according to Revelation 20:10, that Satan will be in torment during the final eon, when the new earth is in existence?

[rodgertutt]

#127 – DOOMED TO BE SAVED – Frances Power Cobbe

“I think if we were not caught in the meshes of that wretched Augustinian scheme of theology which postulates eternal hell to compel us to accept it, -- I think, I say, if it were not for this theology, all Christendom must have long ago come to see, that, at the very least, God feels towards a sinner as a saint would do, and not as a man less good, or wise, or merciful.

We do not think man’s evil can, in the long run of the ages, finally outspeed God’s ever-pursuing mercy. He must overtake us sooner or later. We may temporarily choose evil rather than good, and vileness instead of nobleness, and be ungrateful and sinful. But God will get the better of us at last.”

[dialoguewithus]

Not stronger than He are we!

How could man's will override God's?

How could it be that "no one seeks God", and yet, if we don't seek Him by a certain point in time, we're doomed? Was God unable, before creating the universe, to come up with a plan whereby it would be redeemed? Luke 14:29, 30.

Since only He can inspire faith (we are incapable of generating it) and since He will draw all to Himself, we KNOW He will one day grant faith to all. He has promised repeatedly to do so. And we've quoted the verses repeatedly. Everyone understands and accepts what he is enabled to by God. Peace!

[rodgertutt]

#128 - This is a thrilling poem by Matthew Arnold, keeping in mind the following fact.

Universalism was The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

As students of the history of Christian doctrine know, among believers in eternal torment, Tertullian was one of the most extreme. That is why I think this poem is so powerful. It sent a thrill up and down my spine. :-)

“He saves the sheep, the goats he doth not save!”

So rang Tertullian’s sentence, on the side

Of that unpitying Phrygian sect which cried, --

“Him can no fount of fresh forgiveness lave

Who sins, once washed by the baptismal wave!”

So spake the fierce Tertullian. But she sighed,

The infant church, of love she felt the tide

Stream on her from her Lord’s yet recent grave,

And then she smiled, and in the Catacombs,

With eye suffused, but heart inspired true,

On those walls subterranean, where she hid

Her head in ignominy, death and tombs,

She her Good Shepherd’s hasty image drew,

And on His shoulders, not a lamb, a kid.

[dialoguewithus]

Car troubles?

Let’s say your car is “on the blink”. In fact, it won’t start and someone stole all four wheels. Now, the neighborhood mechanic offers to fix it for you; in fact, he’s so generous, he even claims he’ll repair it for free! Nevertheless, you decide to sell it for scrap and it is hauled away to be crushed.

Question: Is your neighbor your mechanic? No, because he’s never fixed anything for you.

Thus also, unless God actually saves us, He is not our Savior. The word savior means “one who saves”. The scriptures don’t declare God to be the One who “offers salvation to all”. In fact, the Bible declares that none seek him (Ro. 3). The scriptures don’t declare God to be the One who “does all He can, and then it’s up to us to secure our salvation”. No, the scriptures declare God to be the One who saves all mankind, ESPECIALLY believers. (1 Tim. 4). Paul didn’t say, all mankind, provided they’re believers, or once they’re believers; he said “especially believers”. And he made it abundantly clear that God prefers some for salvation now, while some are not to be saved until later. 2 Thes. 2:13; Ro. 9:11, 15-18; Col. 1:15-20; Phil. 2:9-11; 1 Cor. 15:20-28. And the Potter has the right to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor –verse 21. In the final analysis, and in view of God’s overall plan, we can rest in the promise that “God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all”. Romans 11:32.

[dialoguewithus]

“Hippolytus (about A.D. 220) enumerates and comments on thirty-two heresies, but universal restoration is not named among them. And yet, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen- then living- were everywhere regarded as the great teachers of the church, and their view of man’s future destiny was generally prevalent, according to Augustine, Jerome and others. It could not then have been regarded as a “heresy” or Hippolytus would have named it. What a force there is in fact that not one of those who wrote against the heresies of their times ever named universal salvation as one of them! Hippolytus mentions thirty-two. Epiphanius wrote his Panarion and epitomizes it in his Anacephal’osis or Recapitulation, but not one of the heresy-hunters includes our faith in his maledictions. Could there be stronger evidence than this fact that the doctrine was not then heretical?”

-A snippet from Universalism the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years, by J. W. Hanson, 1899

http://www.truth.info/future/universalism.htm

[dialoguewithus]

The Eons of the Eons

Revelation 20:10 (CLV)

“And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons."

This occurs near the end of the millennial eon; the “eons of the eons” in this verse therefore refers to the remainder of that eon, and during the eon of the eons on the new earth. “The eons of the eons” are the two greatest eons, for Christ will be ruling; they are the final two eons. The Adversary (Satan) will be in torment during both those eons. He and his two cohorts will apparently suffer more chastisement for their sins than will any human offender. So the lake of fire continues into the final eon. We are told that that the lake of fire will be “the part” of those humans who were cast into it, which for them will be the second death –Rev. 21:8. The fact that Satan, the false prophet, and the wild beast will still be in existence shows that God’s plan of salvation is not yet finalized at that time. So too in regards to the presence of the “tree of life”, which will be for the “cure” of the nations. Rev. 22:2. So too the continued existence of death, for it must be abolished for all mankind. 1 Cor. 15:20-28; Ro. 5:18, 19.

Revelation 22:5 (CLV)

“And night shall be no more, and they have no need of lamplight and sunlight, for the Lord God shall be illuminating them. And they shall be reigning for the eons of the eons."

Here John speaks from the point of view of his presence on Patmos when he writes “they shall be reigning for the eons of the eons."; both those eons were (and still are) future. As rulers, they are referred to as kings- Rev. 21:24. This is before the consummation, when all sovereignty will have been abolished, along with death. 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

[rodgertutt]

#132 – THE SHAKING OF HEAVEN AND EARTH – Charles Kingsley

“We do not deny that the wages of sin is death. We do not deny the necessity and certainty of punishment. Only tell us not that it must be endless, and thereby destroy its whole purpose. We too believe in an eternal fire, but we believe its existence to be not a curse but a blessing. That fire is God Himself Who taketh away the sins of the world, and of Whom it is therefore written, ‘Our God is a consuming fire.”

[rodgertutt]

“Hippolytus (about A.D. 220) enumerates and comments on thirty-two heresies, but universal restoration is not named among them. And yet, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen- then living- were everywhere regarded as the great teachers of the church, and their view of man’s future destiny was generally prevalent, according to Augustine, Jerome and others. It could not then have been regarded as a “heresy” or Hippolytus would have named it. What a force there is in fact that not one of those who wrote against the heresies of their times ever named universal salvation as one of them! Hippolytus mentions thirty-two. Epiphanius wrote his Panarion and epitomizes it in his Anacephal’osis or Recapitulation, but not one of the heresy-hunters includes our faith in his maledictions. Could there be stronger evidence than this fact that the doctrine was not then heretical?”

-A snippet from Universalism the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years, by J. W. Hanson, 1899

http://www.truth.info/future/universalism.htm

A snippet from

OUR CHURCH FATHERS TESTIFY – DR. JACK JACOBSON

“If the concept of universal restoration seems to be a modern idea, it’s only because the understanding of this glorious plan of God is new to our modern minds. Universal restoration, in fact, is a truth once taught to and received by most of the saints of antiquity. The modern church has become blinded to the fact of universal restoration as given in the scriptures, but this is not a blindness that was shared by the early church.”

This introduction is followed by quotes by many UR church leaders during the first six centuries of the Christian church.

[Guest]

We will get good out of evil.

So that's where good comes from!

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: rodgertutt

We will get good out of evil.

So that's where good comes from!

THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL – RAY PRINZING

“God is sovereign, and He controls all the interaction of evil and good, and causes all to redound to His own glory. It is not – what was lost by the fall was to be regained by redemption, BUT by the interaction of FALL AND REDEMPTION, God achieves greater, wiser, nobler, and higher goals for everyone than by the Adamic race remaining in its pristine state.

Evil and good are synchronized to accomplish God’s will and purpose, so that the ultimate goal shall reveal all evil transformed back into good, and all negation cancelled out by GOOD. Evil is allowed for wise ends, and when these are secured it must cease to exist, for God will restore all things into good. HE controls all the interaction between evil and good until His purpose of the ages is fulfilled. Then shall God be All in all.”

“Modern theology has so long circumvented our thinking and teaching to the biased idea that God will save only part of His creation and so limited His redemptive powers that we have forgotten that with God all things are possible and shall be wrought out in due time. God has a definite schedule for saving His creatures, and there is nothing that can withstand His purpose.

Sin was allowed for wise ends, and only after these have been secured will sin cease to exist. It is all a part of God’s purpose of the ages and redemption’s glory will only shine out the more after the plan’s execution. God never allows sin to go beyond His transforming power. God always has everything under perfect control.”

[dialoguewithus]

Obviously God's purpose is good- in Him there is no darkness at all. Ro. 8:20. Acts 2:23.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (CLV)

"He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart So that the man may not find out His work, That which the One, Elohim, does from the beginning to the terminus."

Ecclesiastes 1:13 (CLV)

"I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."

I remember a presentation at work one day. She said, "Who is the most faithful customer?" "Is it the one who was always satisfied with the service? No. It's the customer who complains about something and then sees that the company does all it can to resolve the matter to the customer's satisfaction; that will be your most faithful customer from then on."

We will be closer to God than we ever could have been without redemption. You never really know what you've got till it's gone.

[rodgertutt]

#133 – POEM BY HELEN BRONTE

There lives within my heart,

A hope long nursed by me;

And should its cheering ray depart,

How dark my soul would be.

That as in Adam all have died,

In Christ shall all men live;

And ever round His throne abide

Eternal praise to give.

That even the wicked shall at last

Be fitted for the skies;

And when their dreadful doom is past

To light and life arise.

I ask not how remote the day,

Nor what the sinner’s woe,

Before their dross is purged away;

Enough for me to know,

That when the cup of wrath is drained,

The metal purified,

They’ll cling to what they once disdained

And live by Him Who died.

[dialoguewithus]

That's a beautiful poem, Rodger. It's wonderful to trust in an omnipotent God who never gives up on anyone. It's wonderful to know that He is able, not only to punish, but to draw all to Himself through one perfect sacrifice.