Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[dialoguewithus]

"Whenever the word "eons" is used in reference to mortals, it doesn't mean "eternally" or "endlessly.""

Actually, "eons" and "eonian" NEVER refers to eternity. God is the eonian God just as He is God of all the earth; He made the eons, existing both before they began and after they end, and He made the heavens and the earth, and is God of the universe.

[dialoguewithus]

The Places of the Dead

Job 33:22 (CLV)

His soul draws near to the pit And his life to the place of the dead.

The “place” of the dead now is called in Biblical Greek, “[h]ad’es”; UN-PERCEIVED; unseen, not perceivable by any of the senses, imperceptible; as a noun, idiomatically, “the unseen”. All who die, from Abel until the Great White Throne judgment, go to the “place” called “the unseen”. Rev. 20:12-15 shows us that, at the time of that judgment, death and the unseen will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

So what is the “place” of the dead during the New Jerusalem eon? Rev. 21:8- “…their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.” All of the dead, from the Great White throne until the consummation of vivification, will be in the “place” called “the lake of fire”. They will remain dead until the third class is vivified and death is abolished. 1 Cor. 15:20-28. (The second class of vivification receives immortality at Christ’s Second Coming.) After the consummation, death will no longer have any place in God’s creation. Col. 1:15-20; 2 Tim. 1:10; Ro. 5:18, 19.

[rodgertutt]

#109 - UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON

Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).

‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).

Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16). (end quote)

“God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.”

Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.

“Ah, I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!”

RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS – J. Preston Eby

http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK

“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation. Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.

‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9

In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.”

[dialoguewithus]

1 Corinthians 2:7 (CLV)

but we are speaking God's wisdom in a secret, wisdom which has been concealed, which God designates before - before the eons, for our glory,

Ephesians 3:11 (CLV)

in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord;

Colossians 1:26 (CLV)

the secret which has been concealed from the eons and from the generations, yet now was made manifest to His saints,

Hebrews 1:2 (CLV)

in the last of these days speaks to us in a Son, Whom He appoints enjoyer of the allotment of all, through Whom He also makes the eons;

1 Corinthians 10:11 (CLV)

Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained.

Hebrews 9:26 (CLV)

since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest.

These last two verses are somewhat "symbolic" if that's the correct word, but they do demonstrate that the eons end; they are limited periods of time, not endless time.

[John317]

John 12:47

Jesus declared that He came so that I should be saving the world.I should be saving is the Greek soso (4982); verb, aorist subjunctive active, first person singular. http://interlinearbible.org/john/12-47.htm

....Subjunctive Mood

The subjunctive mood indicates probability or objective possibility. The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances. It is oftentimes used in conditional statements (i.e. 'If...then...' clauses) or in purpose clauses. However if the subjunctive mood is used in a purpose or result clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action.

Here we see the saving of the world as the result of Jesus having come into the world. That is the purpose of His coming and giving Himself as a perfect Sacrifice- see verse 32. The saving of the world, as with the drawing described in verse 32, should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome.

The Bible is clear that Jesus came to save "the world," but it is also clear that in this instance "the world" does not mean every individual in the world will be saved. "The world" means people, but not ALL people. In fact, the Bible teaches that many people will be lost (not saved).

Here are some Bible verses which teach clearly that some people living on earth will not be saved in God's kingdom:

2 Thes. 1:7-10

.... when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels

[8] in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, [10] when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

Isaiah 1:28,31--

But rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together,

and those who forsake the Lord shall come to an end [be consumed].

.... [31] And the strong shall become tinder,

and his work a spark,

and both of them shall burn together,

with none to quench them.

Malachi 4:1-3

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

[2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. [3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Isaiah 66:17,24--

They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. ....[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Obadiah 1:16

For as you have drunk on my holy mountain,

so all the nations shall drink continually;

they shall drink and swallow,

and shall be as though they had never been.

Matthew 25:46

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

NOTE: the punishment of the wicked will last as long as the life [or reward] of the righteous; i.e., they are both without end.

Rev. 20:9

And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them [burned them up].

NOTE: Compare the above verse with Malachi 4: 1, 3.

Jude 1:12-15

These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; [13] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

[14] It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, [15] to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

2 Peter 2:4-17

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; [5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; [6] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; [7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: [8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) [9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: [10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [11] Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. [12] But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; [13] And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; [14] Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: [15] Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [16] But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. [17] These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

1 Peter 4:17-19

For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? [18] And

"If the righteous is scarcely saved,

what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

[19] Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.

[Stan]

really? REALLY?

Quote:

“Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.”

Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.

[rodgertutt]

John 3:17, what some people will not be saved from is kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement). But sooner or later everyone will be saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

#200 – THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS – Jeremiah White (1613-72 A.D)

“God’s love demands that all punishment be reformative, Divine punishment is both good in itself, because everything that God does is good, and good for those being punished, because God loves His creation”

[rodgertutt]

really? REALLY?

Yes really Stan. I agree with Minnie, and Jim, and Preston, and Paul, on how they understand those scriptures.

#109 - UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON

Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).

‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).

Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16). (end quote)

“God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.”

Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.

“Ah, I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!”

RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS – J. Preston Eby

http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK

“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation. Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.

‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9

In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.”

[John317]

A question for the partialists: Why won't God save all; is He unable, or is He unwilling? Please explain.

The Bible shows that God refuses to force people to accept Him; neither will God change people against their wills. God respects people's decisions to accept or reject Him.

God'a appeal is, "Choose you this day whom you will serve."

The simple fact is that the Bible teaches that many people choose to reject Him.

[John317]

Yes really Stan. I agree with Minnie, and Jim, and Preston, and Paul, on how they understand those scriptures.

They feed you a lot of lies. You need to accept the Bible, not what those uninspired people tell you.

[John317]

John 3:17, what some people will not be saved from is kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement). But sooner or later everyone will be saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

Can you show where the Bible teaches this?

[rodgertutt]

CLOUDS AND SUNSHINE – J.S. Taylor

I cannot believe that any being will exist in any part of the universe, so steeped in guilt and anguish (no, not Satan himself), as to be beyond the redeeming love and healing power of the Creator.

Oh, no; on the contrary, I believe that in this mysterious, but divinely ordained conflict of good and evil, the powers of light are everywhere slowly but surely gaining the ascendancy over the powers of darkness, and that it will continue to be so, even unto the perfect day; yes, that perfect day, wherein all these blessed victories over sin and ignorance shall have been consummated, these transformations completed, and no solitary stain of folly, guilt, or grief, be left in anyone to mar the luster of the universe.”

[John317]

Matt. 12: 14 says that the Pharisees took counsel against Christ in order that they might destroy [Gk apolesosin] Him.

What did they plan to do to Jesus? Didn't they plan to kill him?

[Stan]

I have no problem with you believing that or any other thing.

I do put my trust in the word, not something someone says about the word.

This is really bible 101

New International Version (©1984)

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

New International Version (©1984)

but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

The Best coverage of this is from Jesus

http://bible.cc/matthew/7-21.htm

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

[dialoguewithus]

Neither of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God-

So looking at the big picture, what we see at first is the apparently arbitrary God of Romans 9 hardening whoever He pleases and having mercy on whoever He pleases, doing what He will with those who are powerless to resist His will and have no right to complain. But at the end of that story (at the end of Romans 11) we find a victorious God who self sacrificially reveals Himself as a God of infinite love and mercy toward His entire creation.

God handed us all over to disobedience. He opened the door and allowed us to rebel knowing that we would rebel. He allowed us to bring unmeasurable misery on ourselves individually and collectively. He allowed us to become His enemies and hate Him. Why? So that He could reveal to us who He was, the self sacrificial God of infinite love and mercy. (John 3:16) By that example He also revealed what we should be, what His perfect maturity looks like and what we should try to emulate.

God has the whole world in His sovereign hands. They aren't the hands of a sadistic monster but the hands of an infinitely loving God, a God who IS love.

In the 1Timothy 4:9-11 text we find Paul again confirming that God is the sovereign savior of all men. Some try to make this text read that God is the potential savior of all men but only if they believe. The word "especially" never means "but only if".

If I say that I like ice cream, especially if it's vanilla, I don't mean that I like ice cream but only if it's vanilla. I mean that I like ice cream in general but that I especially like vanilla ice cream.

In a similar way, Paul is saying that God is the sovereign savior of all men without exception but that there is a special, greater salvation for those who are "in Christ"

http://www.biblicaluniversalist.com/OUniversal_Reconciliation.html

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

A question for the partialists: Why won't God save all; is He unable, or is He unwilling? Please explain.

The Bible shows that God refuses to force people to accept Him; neither will God change people against their wills. God respects people's decisions to accept or reject Him.

THE MAGNITUDE OF REDEMPTION – RAY PRINZING

“ ‘And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.” 1John 4:14.

‘Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the truth’ 1Tim. 2:4.

This is not a pitting of man’s will against the will of God as some try to teach, with man’s will able to resist and hold out until God cannot change him, but must throw him into some eternal cesspool to be annihilated. NAY – for we read that ‘He is working out all things after the counsel of His own will,’ and man cannot disannul that which HE has willed. It is God’s will that all shall come to Christ. He is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Why then shall we be so foolish as to dispute the immutability of His truth?”

A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER

“It is hard for man to accept how completely he is in the hands of God. Churchianity pictures God as sitting off to one side, waiting and pleading for His creatures to come to Him. Instead of that He is the active force; He is the mover of all things. We simply live and move and have our being in Him (Acts 17:28). If He does not move us we are not moved; if He does not enlighten us we are not enlightened.

The course that God has taken to accomplish His purpose for man is preeminently the right one for God is Almighty, so there is no question of His power to do whatever He wills, and He wills all men to be saved (1Tim. 2:3&4).”

OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX

“God is a despot. Paul in Ephesians 1:11, speaks of ‘the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will.’ Yes, God exercise a despotic sway over the whole universe, but we are thankful for this because He is Love. Though He will brook no opposition to the furtherance of His purpose, He is never a tyrant. When He inflicts evil upon any, it is always in order that good may follow. His sovereign will is the ultimate salvation and blessing of all, that He may be All in all.

For all creation in its need,

The future is engraved

In words of life, for all to read,

‘In grace shall you be saved.’

Let every mental conflict cease,

Let every barrier fall,

For grace removes each bar to peace

Till Thou art All in all.

O God, how glorious is Thy grace!

How radiantly divine!

It stretches out its wide embrace,

To make all creatures Thine.

When God is All in all, the whole creation will have become His achievement, and every member will be a beneficiary of His OVERWHELMING GRACE.”

[Stan]

can you switch over the a conversation rather than quotes?

[Dr. Rich]

The reason why only a few are found in Rev. 3:4 is because the narrow road will not hold all of the people on the wide road to destruction. And just how many people will be found in this group: Rev. 21:8 and 22:15?

[rodgertutt]

Quote:

The Bible shows that God refuses to force people to accept Him; neither will God change people against their wills. God respects people's decisions to accept or reject Him.

Quote:

THE MAGNITUDE OF REDEMPTION – RAY PRINZING

“ ‘And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.” 1John 4:14.

‘Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the truth’ 1Tim. 2:4.

This is not a pitting of man’s will against the will of God as some try to teach, with man’s will able to resist and hold out until God cannot change him, but must throw him into some eternal cesspool to be annihilated. NAY – for we read that ‘He is working out all things after the counsel of His own will,’ and man cannot disannul that which HE has willed. It is God’s will that all shall come to Christ. He is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Why then shall we be so foolish as to dispute the immutability of His truth?”

A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER

“It is hard for man to accept how completely he is in the hands of God. Churchianity pictures God as sitting off to one side, waiting and pleading for His creatures to come to Him. Instead of that He is the active force; He is the mover of all things. We simply live and move and have our being in Him (Acts 17:28). If He does not move us we are not moved; if He does not enlighten us we are not enlightened.

The course that God has taken to accomplish His purpose for man is preeminently the right one for God is Almighty, so there is no question of His power to do whatever He wills, and He wills all men to be saved (1Tim. 2:3&4).”

OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX

“God is a despot. Paul in Ephesians 1:11, speaks of ‘the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will.’ Yes, God exercise a despotic sway over the whole universe, but we are thankful for this because He is Love. Though He will brook no opposition to the furtherance of His purpose, He is never a tyrant. When He inflicts evil upon any, it is always in order that good may follow. His sovereign will is the ultimate salvation and blessing of all, that He may be All in all.

For all creation in its need,

The future is engraved

In words of life, for all to read,

‘In grace shall you be saved.’

Let every mental conflict cease,

Let every barrier fall,

For grace removes each bar to peace

Till Thou art All in all.

O God, how glorious is Thy grace!

How radiantly divine!

It stretches out its wide embrace,

To make all creatures Thine.

When God is All in all, the whole creation will have become His achievement, and every member will be a beneficiary of His OVERWHELMING GRACE.”

By GERRY BEAUCHEMIN

”Tradition has taught that God will not save a person against their will. I agree. However He has the power to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary to effect one’s will to change.

Once a full revelation of God is received in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), men will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord just as Isaiah and Paul prophesied (Is. 45:21-25; Rom. 4:11; Ph. 2:9-11). Who would want to continue in active and persistent rebellion knowing God only wants what is best for them? Knowing the great goodness and love of God, along with the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, these hardened hearts must melt before His glorious being.

It is impossible that an omnipotent God can fail in His purpose so that some would forever resist unconditional love opting for everlasting destruction. This would be totally irrational. And even if one were that irrational, such resistance would not arise out of a ‘free’ will, but an ‘enslaved’ will, a will in bondage to an enslaved mind.”

[Stan]

Please cease to copy and paste. That is not a conversation.

This is request number 2

[rodgertutt]

Please cease to copy and paste. That is not a conversation.

This is request number 2

Stan, others can say what I want to say far better than I can say it myself. Thus the copy and paste.

These are all from my snippets, and that is what this my thread is called.

"Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of Rodger Tutt." I am now applying them to specific challenges.

Does that not make a difference to you?

[dialoguewithus]

“But sooner or later everyone will be saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.”

“Can you show where the Bible teaches this?”

“Sufficient for you is My grace, for My power in infirmity is being perfected.” 2 Cor. 12:9. Infirmity is no obstacle to God’s saving grace. Nor is lack of faith, for faith is a gift of God. In some cases, faith comes through sight; remember Thomas. Will being resurrected, not once, but twice, make any impression on the minds of the lost? How could it not? Will God having judged the hidden things of ALL hearts have any effect on the lost? How could it not? “Not stronger than He are we!” To claim that it is God’s will to save all, but man wills otherwise, so all WON’T be saved, is to make man’s will sovereign and God’s will “wishful thinking”. Rodger and I have presented many clear Bible statements concerning the salvation, reconciliation, and vivification of all. Either one accepts those promises and conciliates them with the promises of judgment and destruction, or one accepts only one set of verses and ignores or explains away the universal reconciliation verses. It is true that the prophets for Israel focus almost exclusively on the eons and Israel’s place in God’s plan; they don’t make many references to UR, for that pertains to AFTER the eons conclude. Paul, the apostle of the nations, presents abundant teaching regarding God’s final glories, when the true power of Christ’s redemption becomes evident. We mustn’t fall into the trap of considering God a god who simply gives orders, but doesn’t live up to His own ideals. Luke 14:28-30 ; Ro. 12:21.

[Dr. Rich]

God will NEVER force anyone to become converted or He would have done that before the flood! This is why the story of Saul on the road being blinded is just not like God and since we can't find any other witnesses for this, it's his word verses Peter's as found in Psudo Climintine Homily 19.

[rodgertutt]

God will NEVER force anyone to become converted or He would have done that before the flood! This is why the story of Saul on the road being blinded is just not like God and since we can't find any other witnesses for this, it's his word verses Peter's as found in Psudo Climintine Homily 19.

The "force" of God's love will, sooner or later bring influences to bear that will cause all men to want what He wants for them, not against their will but by making them realize that His way is best.

[dialoguewithus]

Dr Rich: "God will NEVER force anyone to become converted..."

Here we agree.

As for the rest of your statement, I'm not following you.