Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[dialoguewithus]

Universalism, Calvinism, and Arminianism:

Which view does more, in the end, to undermine the glory and the majesty of God?

http://www.willamette.edu/~ttalbott/prolegomenon.shtml

[rodgertutt]

Universalism, Calvinism, and Arminianism:

Which view does more, in the end, to undermine the glory and the majesty of God?

http://www.willamette.edu/~ttalbott/prolegomenon.shtml

ARMINIAN AN BELIEF VERSUS CALVINIST AN BELIEF VERSUS UR BELIEF

ARMINIAN AN BELIEF - It's as if God says

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to terminate your existence.”

Christ's apparent mission: To save from annihilation only those who are lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they die, and also are smart enough to properly cooperate with Him before they die.

CALVINIST AN BELIEF - It's as if God says

"Since there is nothing you can do about it because you are totally depraved and you are not one of the elect, it is obvious that I created most of you for the purpose of terminating your existence. However, I am going to choose a few of you to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."

Christ's apparent mission: To let everyone cease to exist, without any say in the matter, except the few He rescues by His irresistible grace.

UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION BELIEF (mine) – God says

“Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, I am going to save all of you from everything from which you need to be saved, including your stubborn will.”

Christ's scriptural mission: 'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world' (1John 4:14).

I worship a Jesus Who will be completely successful in accomplishing the reason why His Father sent Him.

Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world experience extermination in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"

[dialoguewithus]

Psalm 2

(CLV) 1 Why are the nations perturbed? And why do the national groups mumble empty phrases? 2 The kings of the earth are standing by, And the chancellors are gathered together Against Yahweh and against His Anointed, saying, 3 Let us pull away their bonds, And let us fling off their ropes from us. 4 The One sitting in the heavens, He shall ridicule; Yahweh, He shall deride them. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His anger, And in His hot anger He shall fill them with panic, saying, 6 I will pour a libation on My King, On Zion, My holy mountain. 7 Let me recount the statute of Yahweh: He has said to Me, My Son are You; I, today, have begotten You. 8 Ask of Me, And I will give the nations as Your allotment, And as Your holding, the limits of the earth. 9 You shall smash them with a club of iron; Like a vessel of a potter, You shall shatter them. 10 And now, O kings, be intelligent; Be admonished, all judges of the earth;" 11 Serve Yahweh with fear, And exult with quivering. 12 Bear admonition lest He should be angry, And you should perish in the way, For His anger shall consume speedily. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

Psalm 110

(CLV) 1 {A Davidic Psalm{ The averring of Yahweh to my Lord: Sit at My right Until I should set Your enemies as a stool for Your feet. 2 The rod of Your strength shall Yahweh send from Zion; Sway among Your enemies. 3 Your people shall be willing in the day of Your potent power; In holy effulgence from the womb of the dawn, You will have the dew of Your childhood." 4 Yahweh has sworn, and He shall not regret: You are a priest for the [millennial] eon According to the order of Melchizedek." 5 Yahweh is at Your right; He will transfix kings in the day of His anger. 6 He shall adjudicate among the nations; He will fill them with dead bodies; He will transfix heads over the vast earth. 7 He shall drink from the watercourse along the way; Therefore He shall hold His head high.

“You shall smash them with a club of iron; Like a vessel of a potter, You shall shatter them.” “The rod of Your strength shall Yahweh send from Zion; Sway among Your enemies.”

Revelation 2:27 (CLV)

and he shall be shepherding them with an iron club, as vessels of pottery are being crushed, as I also have obtained from My Father.

Revelation 12:5 (CLV)

And she brought forth a son, a male, who is about to be shepherding all the nations with an iron club. And her child is snatched away to God and to His throne.

Revelation 19:15 (CLV)

And out of His mouth a sharp blade is issuing, that with it He should be smiting the nations. And He will be shepherding them with an iron club. And He is treading the wine trough of the fury of the indignation of God, the Almighty.

This verse refers to the end of the present eon, and to Christ’s rule with the iron club during the millennium. Along with their High Priest, the saints in Israel will be priests during the impending eon. Ps. 110:4; Heb. 7:17; Rev. 20:6. Once the millennial eon ends, so will the priesthood. Rev. 21:22.

Christ is the ideal Shepherd, and one day there will be but one flock. John 10:11-16.

[John317]

...

Notice that the verse says "may be saved," not will be saved.

Whether people will be saved depends on their choice. Some people don't want to be saved. God won't force them to be saved.

Consider John 3:16--

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

This verse teaches that salvation is conditional. It is conditioned upon one's belief or faith in Christ. Notice, again, that it doesn't say that everyone will be saved. For one thing, many people don't have faith in Christ.

Originally Posted By: dialoguewithus

...As for John 3:17, here's the interlinear http://interlinearbible.org/john/3-17.htm

"may be saved" or "might be saved" is the subjunctive; it depends on the rest of the verse, that is, on God's having sent Christ into the world for that purpose. I would compare this to Luke 19:10, where Christ came to seek and to save the lost/ destroyed (apollumi).

Luke 19:10

For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.

NOTE: It would make no sense at all to translate it, "to save the destroyed."

Matthew 10:6

but go rather to the lost [apollumi] sheep of the house of Israel.

NOTE: It would make no sense, either, to translate it, "Go rather to the destroyed sheep."

Matthew 9:17

Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed [apollumi]. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.

You apparently believe that Greek words in the New Testament only have one meaning, but as we can see from the above, this is not true.

Neither Luke 19: 10 nor Matt. 10: 6 express the idea of "destroyed" but to "stray" or to be "lost," as in not knowing one's way.

You also apparently misunderstand the purpose and function of the subjunctive mood.

It is the mood of contingency, viewed by the speaker as possible, contingent upon certain conditions.

It's used to express an action which may or should happen but which is not necessarily true at the present nor in the future, from the speaker's point of view. It expresses conditional or uncertain actions.

An example:

Jeff may have done his homework.

The subjunctive mood is in contrast to the indicative mood, which is the mood of certainty.

If the writer of John 3: 16, 17 had wanted to communicate the idea that the whole world would definitely be saved, he would have used the indicative mood, which expresses that whicgh is actual, factual, or real.

Examples of indicative mood:

Bible study has changed Jeff's life.

The Bible is clear as to what happens to those who are not saved in God's kingdom:

Jude 1:12-13

These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; [13] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Isaiah 1:28

But rebels and sinners shall be crushed together,

and those who forsake the Lord will come to an end.

2 Thes. 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of his coming.

[rodgertutt]

#187 – CONVERSATIONS ON THE DIVINE GOVERNMENT – Theophilus Lindsey

Everything is from God, and for the good of all. All things, good as well as what we call evil, are appointed by Infinite Wisdom and Benevolence, for the wisest and most gracious purposes for everyone.”

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: John317

...

for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever

Jude 1:13

Literally, "for an eon" (singular).

But by the end of the eon they will have been saved too.

The age following The Great White Throne Judgment is sometimes called 'the age of consummation,' or 'the age of Jubilee,' or 'the age of the New Heaven and New Earth.'

By the time that age has ended, all fallen creatures will have been saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY

“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE

http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

[rodgertutt]

A SNIPPET FROM THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

“The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.”

See this link.

http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd3.html

[dialoguewithus]

John 3:17-

sōthē verb - aorist passive subjunctive - third person singular

sozo sode'-zo: to save, i.e. deliver or protect -- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

This is interesting: http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/25/john-317-and-a-translation-that-might-work/

“Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice.”

The subject is the world, which will be saved (the world is the recipient of the action), unless I’m misunderstanding.

http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm

“Subjunctive Mood

The subjunctive mood indicates probability or objective possibility. The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances. It is oftentimes used in conditional statements (i.e. 'If...then...' clauses) or in purpose clauses. However if the subjunctive mood is used in a purpose or result clause, then the action should not be thought of as a possible result, but should be viewed as a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action.”

The objective factor or circumstance, as I see it, is that God sent His Son into the world. That could be termed the condition upon which is based the definite outcome, the salvation of the world. The salvation of all is definitely God's purpose, and that's why He sent His Son into the world, so maybe this is a purpose clause. I'm no expert on biblical Greek.

John 12:32 is in the indicative, isn't it? Nevertheless, we see here as well a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action.

Each word in Greek, or any other language, has one meaning; otherwise communication becomes impossible. When translating between languages, which have different histories, rules, grammar, etc., obviously the corresponding word may vary, but each word in the Bible has a meaning, which is best determined by seeing how it is used throughout the Scriptures.

“It would make no sense at all to translate it, "to save the destroyed."” No, it wouldn’t in English, but in ancient Greek, it does, for the meaning of that word applies.

[Lysimachus]

So you don't agree, Lysimachus, with the SDA teaching in favor of freedom of religion? Or are our arguments too powerful to ignore?

You've already expressed your religion, haven't you? No need to repeat your posts, as I haven't even had time to read 80+% of them.

And many of them you've repeated enough times. It's just copy/paste material from Tentmaker.

[rodgertutt]

#188 – About Dr. Joseph Priestly, Thomas Whittimore writes in THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM

“He believed that God’s punishment will not be administered with the slightest tincture of revenge, but as a necessary means of qualifying the sinner for a better state of existence, which his present propensities disqualify him from enjoying. It is not the effect of anger in an irritated and avenging tyrant as the abominable tenets of orthodoxy would induce us to think of the Deity, but it is the medicine administered for our good by the Physician of our souls. Nor have we any reason to believe that it is greater in degree, or longer in duration than is necessary to produce the beneficial effect for which it is inflicted.

It was a constant source of great consolation to him, that all thing exist and move on harmoniously to produce universal good for everyone by Divine appointment and direction.”

[dialoguewithus]

Don't worry, Lysimachus. You can read all of them later if you wish, and if you have time; it's entirely optional. Peace!

[rodgertutt]

#190 – In a letter to a friend, James Edmands (nineteenth century) wrote

“The death of Christ ensured the restoration of all as a result. Men are now in the hands of a Mediator, Who deals with them as rational and accountable beings, and afflicts, whether here or hereafter, only in order to bring them to a deep sense of their own folly, and then restores them to His favor. Those who love and believe in Him in this life, are the first fruits, and those who do not will be the harvest or ingathering.”

[dialoguewithus]

Once you realize that John 3:17 is a statement that stands on its own as 100% true and is 100% corroborated and explained in detail by many other plain statements in Scripture, you can then read John 3:16 and realize that it cannot possibly change the meaning of John 3:17. Jesus made both statements clearly as 100% true, without negating, qualifying or “adjusting” either one.

Of course there will be people who try to explain away John 3:17 by claiming that verse 16 changes the meaning of verse 17 – in other words, they claim that although God and Jesus wanted and intended to save the whole world (verse 17), they will fail at that goal because only certain people who believe will end up being saved (verse 16).

People who make this claim are missing three massively important things:

1. In verse 16 Jesus did not say that the penalty for not believing is eternal damnation and the reward for believing now is eternal life. He said that the penalty for not believing is death and the reward for believing now is eonian (pertaining to an age or ages) life. (“Eternal” is a blatant mistranslation; for example see how “eon” is used in 2 Cor. 4:4 and you will see it cannot possibly mean “eternal” or “forever”).

The very fact that Jesus used the phrase “eonian life” in John 3:16 to describe the reward of those who believe, tells us that He is talking about those who believe in Him before the next two eons – the kingdom of God. In John 3:16 Jesus was talking about those who would have faith in Him now in this current age, so as to obtain life in “the kingdom of God” (the next two ages of life on earth, the millennium and the New Jerusalem age) and so as to avoid being dead during those two ages. Of course, those who do not believe in Christ now will be dead during those two ages and will not enjoy a part in the “kingdom of God” (Christ’s reign on earth, see Acts 1:6-7 & Rev. 19:11-20:6). (See Part 1 of this article to learn why Jesus was constantly warning the Israelites living 2,000 years ago about “not perishing” at the beginning of His earthly reign.)

Bottom line, John 3:16 says nothing about eternity or eternal destiny; it is only about having faith now so as to take part in the next two ages of life on earth (“the kingdom of God”, “not perishing” but being alive during those two ages).

http://www.bible-questions-and-answers.com/Erasing-Hell-book.html

[rodgertutt]

Jesus did not ever say the words "eternal life". In John 3:16 Jesus promises eonian life (greek: aionios zoe), which quite literally means something of which the horizon/end-point is not in view, but can more generally have the meaning of "pertaining to an age or ages" ie. age-abiding.

Do not confuse this with the idea of immortality - which is also a promise as shown by Paul in 1 Cor 15: 53-57. This is why all will be alive truly forever. Not because of eonian life, but because immortality is granted.

It has caused much confusion and travesty due to the way modern Christian tradition has munged the terms "eternal life" and "immortality".

There are many examples where the word eon and its Hebrew counter-part olam simply cannot mean literally "eternal" or "forever", yet the meaning is forced there when it is not warranted.

You can study this for yourself if you wish to honestly understand.

Christian Universalism understands what immortality is and what it means to put it on as scripture defines it. That does not change simply because Jesus was talking about an undetermined period of time.

[rodgertutt]

#191 – Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)

“God’s justice is, of itself, nothing but goodness; for it rewards the virtuous with blessings, and conduces to the improvement of the sinful. God’s punishment is, in its operation, like medicine: it dissolves the hard heart, purges away the filth of uncleanness, and reduces the swellings of pride and haughtiness; thus restoring its subject to a sound and healthful state.

The necessary chastisements of the Great Judge, Who regards all with benignity, will make mankind grieve for their sins and imperfections, and advance them through the various states of discipline to perfection. Even God’s wrath is full of benevolence towards the human race; for whose sake the Word of God was made man. The chastisements of God are always salutary and instructive, leading to amendment.”

[dialoguewithus]

John 12:32 is another example; in that verse Jesus says He will draw all men to Himself and then a few verses later exhorts His Israelite audience to “become sons of light while you can” (my paraphrase). This does not mean that He will fail to draw all men to Himself or fail to save the whole world eventually. Even though some of those Israelites (the Pharisees, for example) did not become “sons of light” (partakers in the kingdom of God a.k.a. life in the next two ages on earth), we cannot draw the conclusion that Jesus will fail at His goal of saving/drawing all mankind eventually, because so many other Scriptures plainly declare that He has already succeeded at the cross and will succeed in reality at the consummation (Rom. 3:23-24, Rom. 5:18, 1 Cor. 15:20-28, Col. 1:20, Phill. 2:10, 1 Tim. 4:10 etc.). Rather, the correct conclusion is simply that it is 100% appropriate for Jesus to declare that all mankind will eventually be saved while simultaneously exhorting his audience in this age to do what it takes to have a good spot in the next two ages of life on earth (“the kingdom of God”). (Also see my article on The Kingdom Time Gap in the More Questions section of this site to understand why Jesus placed far more emphasis on works and behavior for earning a good spot in the next two ages in His preaching to Israel, than Paul did in his later preaching to the entire world.)

You see, Jesus and Paul (and all of Scripture) had a duty to tell people now how they can take part in “the kingdom of God” (the next two ages of life on earth, the millennium and the New Jerusalem age), while at the same time telling people about the eventual salvation of all which was accomplished in principle on the cross and will be accomplished in reality at the white throne judgment and consummation of the ages.

Jesus touched on the latter concept (the eventual salvation of all) less than Paul because it was not part of the message God had assigned Jesus to preach to Israel (see my article on what I call “Paul’s Pause” or “The Kingdom Time-Gap”); still we know that Jesus understood all mankind would eventually be saved (the true purpose of His death) because of quick, passing, or private statements He made like John 3:17, John 12:32, etc. (Israel and even the twelve disciples did not understand these statements because their mindset was not the salvation of all, they were only concerned about the “kingdom of God” and ruling over the earth with Christ. In other words, their concept of God’s plan did not go beyond what we would now call the millennium, and Jesus’ few passing statements did not explain it to them fully, see Acts 1:6-7.)

http://www.bible-questions-and-answers.com/Erasing-Hell-book.html

[dialoguewithus]

“Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” (Rom. 5:18-19, NIV)

The traditional religious mind, quick to condemn, will says, “Ah, it is true that the gift came to all men, but one has to choose to receive it and most do not.” But this verse does NOT give one the right to make this limitation. Were each of us given the opportunity to “choose” to enter death and condemnation? No, we were not! Our corporate plunge into death was imputed to us all through Adam. Likewise, corporate mankind’s entry into the life of Christ will be Christ’s decision, not our own despite what the traditional church says. Even our faith is a gift from God. (Heb. 12:2) We can’t confess with our mouth nor believe in our heart until He deposits and activates HIS faith in us.

This is another error found in some English translations. We are saved by the “faith OF Christ” in us, NOT by “our faith IN Christ.” (Gal. 2:16; Phil 3:9, KJV) The KJV, in this case has it right, the NIV is wrong. Once we have been given the gift of the “faith of Christ, then faith belongs to us and we then can have “faith IN Christ,” but not before we receive the gift of faith from Christ. Our ability to believe is a gift from God so that we do not become prideful because of “our” decision to follow Christ. There is a world of difference between the word “of” and “in” in Gal. 2:16 and Phil 3:9. “Of” gives all the glory and responsibility of salvation to Christ — “in” puts the burden upon man. This produces pride which brings about spiritual blindness — a disease plaguing the church.

http://lovewins.us/253/adam-succeeded-perfectly-will-christ/

[rodgertutt]

#192 – Origen Adamantius (185- 254 A.D.)

“The end and consummation of the world will take place when all the wicked shall be subjected to punishments. How long each one shall suffer God only knows. The great variety of characters and different orders of beings which now exist, will, through the goodness of God, their subjection to Jesus Christ, and the unity of the Holy Spirit, be finally restored. As the sick must be cured by harsh medicines, so God administers for the purpose of amendatation.

Our God is a consuming fire. He shall come as a refiner’s fire, to purify rational nature from the alloy of wickedness. Rivers of fire are said to go forth before the face of God for the purpose of consuming whatever of evil is admixed with the soul. (Dan. 7:10).

We assert that the Word, Who is the Wisdom of God, shall bring together all intelligent creatures, and convert them to His own perfection. We deny that of all the vices of the soul, there is any which the supreme Word cannot cure. For the Word is more powerful than all the diseases of the soul; and He applies His remedies to each one, according to the pleasure of God. And the consummation of all things will be the extinction of sin.

This may not, indeed, take place with mankind in the present life, but be accomplished after they shall have been liberated from the body.”

[dialoguewithus]

John 12:32 interlinear http://biblelexicon.org/john/12-32.htm

Here the aorist passive subjunctive is used in the verb meaning “lift up”. This is due to the use of the conditional particle “if”. Verse 33 is one of many which prove that this “if” is conditional, but by no means was there any doubt as to whether Christ would sacrifice Himself.

As the rest of the verse shows, because Christ WAS lifted up in sacrifice, He will drag or draw all (“the whole”) to Himself. This “drawing” must be unto salvation, for that is His reason for being, the purpose of His mission. Jn. 3:17; 1:9, 29; Eph. 1:9-11; Phil. 2:5-11.

[dialoguewithus]

There is no doubt that God has always existed, but the statement at Romans 16:26 speaks of Him as an eonian God. The Scriptures say He made the eons, so He existed before they were made, and He will exist after the eons have been concluded (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26). He is endless. To argue that “eonian God” makes the “eonian” unlimited time because God is unlimited is illogical. Isaiah 54:5, KJV, calls Him “the God of the whole earth.” This does not preclude Him from also being the God of the entire universe. In the context of Romans 16:26, He is called the “eonian God,” but He was God before the eons were made; He is God during all the eons, and in post-eonian times. In other words, just because the Scriptures refer to Him as the “God of the ages” does not preclude Him from being the God of eternity. The Scriptures declare Him the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,” and “the God of Israel.” Does that mean He cannot therefore be the God of the gentiles, of the whole universe? Of course not! As for the KJV translation, “forever and ever,” there are some students of the Greek who admit that this is not a faithful translation of the Greek words found in the text. The Greek uses three distinct phrases, all of which are translated the same in the KJV.

• Hebrews 1:8: ho thronos sou ho theos eis ton aiona tou aionos, “Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon.” In both occurrences in this verse, the Greek word we translated “eon” appears in the singular.

• Ephesians 3:21: auto he doxa en te ekklesia kai en Christo Iesou eis pasas tas geneas tou aionos ton aionon, “To Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons. Amen.” Here the Greek word for eon is used twice. The first time it is in the singular; the second time it is in the plural.

• Galatians 1:5: ho he doxa eis tous aionas ton aionon, “To Whom be glory for the eons of the eons.” Here the Greek word for eon appears twice in the plural.

Philippians 1:10 says (ASV margin), “so that ye may distinguish the things that differ.” Since the words of God are inspired and are used precisely, to ignore the differences in these passages is to ignore what He is saying.

http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

[dialoguewithus]

Mr. Ray A. Van Dyke, compiled a comparison between the revelation given in Revelation and that given to Paul, as recorded in 1 Cor. 15:22-28. His comments are reproduced here:

“In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:

In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:

• No more rule

• No more authority

• No more power

• No more enemies

• No more reigning

• All subjected

• No more death, death destroyed.

• All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20:21-22, we have:

• Still rule (20:6; 22:5)

• Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)

• Authority (21:24,25)

• Power (21:24,25; 22:2

• Kings (21:24-26)

• Saints reign (22:5)

• Second death still exists (21:5)

• The nations still mortal (22:2)

-end quote

Christians who believe in universal reconciliation believe that the Bible is God’s Word, and His Word cannot contradict itself, hence the inspired sacred Scriptures say in Rev. 11:15; 22:5,eis tous aionas ton aionon, “for the eons of the eons.” Thus, Christ our Lord “reigns for the eons of the eons,” not as the king’s translators rendered, “forever and ever.” Therefore, Revelation 20:21, 22 fits into the framework of the eons, and is truth relative to the eons. First Corinthians Chapter 15 fits at the consummation (end) of the eons. We give the second Adam, Christ, as much credit and numerical ability as the first Adam, and use 1 Cor. 15:22-28 also for this truth. (Read Rom. 5:18-19.)

http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/

[rodgertutt]

#194 – Gregory of Nyssa (335-390)

What is the scope of St. Paul’s dissertations? That the nature of evil shall, at length, be wholly exterminated, and divine immortal goodness embrace within itself every rational creature; so that of all who were made by God, not one shall be excluded from His kingdom. All the viciousness that like a corrupt matter is mingled in things shall be dissolved and consumed in fire; and everything shall be restored to its pristine state of purity.

In 1Cor. 15:22-28, the apostle Paul declares the extinction of all sin, saying that God will be All in all. For God will be truly All in all only when no evil shall remain in the nature of things. All evil must at length, be entirely removed from everything, so that it shall no more exist. For such being the nature of sin, that it cannot exist without a corrupt motive, it must, of course, be perfectly dissolved and wholly destroyed, so that nothing can remain a receptacle of it, when all motive and influences shall spring from God alone.

As the devil assumed a fleshly shape in order to ruin human nature, so the Lord took flesh for the salvation of man; and thus He blesses not only him who was ruined, but him also who led him into perdition; so that He both delivers man from sin, and heals the author of sin himself.”

[dialoguewithus]

John Milton, the famous 17th century English author wrote, “Who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe.”

[dialoguewithus]

Why Modern Christians Have To Work Harder To Understand Statements In the Bible Than the Original Audience Did

When a communicator is speaking or writing to an audience that they know is on the same page with them, they do not have to do as much explaining as when speaking or writing to an audience that does not have the same beliefs. Some people say, “If the Bible teaches universal reconciliation, why doesn’t it just come out and say so?” What I’ve been trying to show you is that it does come out and say so, over and over again!!!!

It’s just that modern Christians are reading English Bibles where the words “hell” and “eternal/forever” have been artificially inserted due to pagan/Catholic-inherited tradition, and we’ve been so brainwashed to ignore or explain away (by breaking the common sense rules of language and communication) all the times it plainly states that all will eventually be reconciled to God, that we are blind to how clear the Bible is about universal reconciliation!

Sometimes we read a particular passage like 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, John 3:16-17, or a particular verse like Romans 3:23-24, Romans 5:18 and surrounding context, and we wish Jesus or Paul would give us even more detailed and explicit explanation to help us unravel our pagan/Catholic tradition-infested minds. But you have to realize that Jesus and Paul were not speaking to pagan-Catholic-hell-mindset-infested modern Christians! Think about it…Paul was writing to people he had already taught extensively himself! Paul did not have to give a lengthy explanation about universal reconciliation to the Corinthians because he had founded the church himself and he had taught them most of this stuff already! In his letters he was usually just reminding them of things he’d already taught them.

We can read Paul’s letters today, and thankfully, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, God made sure that there is plenty of information in his writings and the rest of the Bible to figure out exactly what God’s ultimate plan for mankind is.

http://www.bible-questions-and-answers.com/Erasing-Hell-book.html

[rodgertutt]

#195 – Didymus, of Alexandria (313-398 A.D.)

“As mankind, by being reclaimed from their sins, are to be subjected to Christ in the fullness of the dispensation instituted for the salvation of all, so also the superior rational intelligences, the angels, will be restored to obedience by correction.