Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 So, the gift of healing is for God to heal you then ? No. The gift of healing is for the purpose of healing others, not for healing oneself. Again, the gifts are to build up the entire church and not to benefit oneself. God gave Ellen White visions and dreams and messages for the church, not just for herself or for a few other people. It was Jesus who instructed her to write out those messages for people to read long after her death. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Gerr Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 Because there's no need to keep tally, even if God is partial and shows favoritism, there's no benefit to the church in making sure people know who God prefers. The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons, so why would it be fovoritism for the Spirit to give you the gift of say, prophecy, and not to me? The gifts are meant to benefit and build up the church, not the recipient. Quote: I assume if you can identify the languages, then humans can understand them, therefore they are not tongues as per 1 Cor 14:2. and unless she woke up one day and knew them, they are obviously the result of her efforts and not God giving a miraculous gift. In light of Acts 2, why would you think that the gift in 1 Cor 14:2 is any different? If I spoke in my native tongue of Ilocano to my congregation, there's not a single person there that would/could understand one word I said. It would all be a mystery to them. Only God or the angels would/could understand it. So are you saying that unless a gift is supernaturally/miraculously given that it is not a spiritual gift?
Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 See, I believe all healing comes from God, and that for God, healing is healing, regardless of the impact on the person healed. It's as easy to heal cancer as a sore foot, for God. Sure, I agree. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Gerr Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 Every Christian has spoken in tongues, by definition. they have not interpreted or prophesied, and must seek to do so. With tongues, interpretation is required in the church, otherwise, we should stay silent and speak instead to God ( not to foreigners, BTW ). So, Paul says to keep speaking in tongues in church, but only when you're willing to take responsibility to also use the gift of interpretation. None of that makes any point in opposition to the idea that when all are told to 'covet to prophesy', it means that all can, if they choose to seek to. Let me ask you. My local church knows only English except for a few bilinguals. Why would God give someone a gift to speak Russian or Korean only to have it translated into English? Of what benefit is that? You can covet all you want, but the Spirit may not see fit to give you that gift. God has never given me everything I asked for. I doubt He is about to do it now.
Moderators John317 Posted December 19, 2011 Moderators Posted December 19, 2011 Because there's no need to keep tally, even if God is partial and shows favoritism, there's no benefit to the church in making sure people know who God prefers. The SDA church doesn't do that. Perhaps you misunderstand the SDA church's beliefs and practices. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted December 19, 2011 Members Posted December 19, 2011 Let me ask you. My local church knows only English except for a few bilinguals. Why would God give someone a gift to speak Russian or Korean only to have it translated into English? Of what benefit is that? Excellent post Gerry. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
BibleOnly Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly I don't understand the question. What are you trying to say ? Just look at the verses you quoted. The fact that you need an interpreter should tell you that not everyone in church have the gift of tongues. Why would there be a need for an interpreter if they all have the gift? That's all I'm trying to point out. Quote: When someone speaks in tongues they do not understand, only God does. so, your logic falls over in the face of the Bible definition of tongues. You're telling Paul he was wrong. Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: Here's another translation: NASB95 | ‎1 Co 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. A wish for the gift is not the same as having it. You can't just jump from translation to translation until you find the one you like. Col 2:1 ¶ For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and [for] them at Laodicea, and [for] as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; would in this verse is the same Greek word. You could choose just about any example through the concordance, the word means 'it is my desire', not that 'I wish' in the sense that it could never be true.
BibleOnly Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Every Christian has spoken in tongues, by definition. they have not interpreted or prophesied, and must seek to do so. With tongues, interpretation is required in the church, otherwise, we should stay silent and speak instead to God ( not to foreigners, BTW ). So, Paul says to keep speaking in tongues in church, but only when you're willing to take responsibility to also use the gift of interpretation. None of that makes any point in opposition to the idea that when all are told to 'covet to prophesy', it means that all can, if they choose to seek to. Let me ask you. My local church knows only English except for a few bilinguals. Why would God give someone a gift to speak Russian or Korean only to have it translated into English? Of what benefit is that? You can covet all you want, but the Spirit may not see fit to give you that gift. God has never given me everything I asked for. I doubt He is about to do it now. Your statement is based on a few misconceptions. First of all, Paul is talking about languages used to speak only to God, for no man understads. Second, you're arguing against the gift of tongues as the SDA defines it, and I agree. There is no point in a gift of human languages, as in almost all cases, people live in an area where they share a common language, no matter what other language they speak. The Bible says that God gives us the desire of our hearts. The gifts God gives, are given for a reason. Unless you're saying that 1 Cor 12 says that God denies you faith, or wisdom, or discernment, you can't use it to say that God would deny you tongues.
ClubV12 Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 I really don't understand how someone who can read English could find the things you do in your gross misinterpretation of scripture.
BibleOnly Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 ROTFL - touche. I guess one of two things is true 1 - God has made the Bible deliberately confusing or 2 - only His sheep hear His voice
Recommended Posts