Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 Ellen White's writings do NOT have priority over Scripture. Originally Posted By: Woody That's kind of deceptive. Does the SDA Church teach that Ellen White's writings have priorty over Scripture? What did Ellen White say regarding the relationship between her writings and the Bible? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: What did Ellen White say regarding the relationship between her writings and the Bible? People don't care what she said regarding that. They want a King and they have made one out of her,. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 But she says things that the Bible does not say. Did Joshua say things that Moses did not say? Did Paul say things that are not found in the rest of the Bible? Isn't that different from saying she contradicts the Bible? Wouldn't we expect that God's prophet would say some things not found in the Bible? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 Ellen White's writings do NOT have priority over Scripture. That's kind of deceptive. Because - many SDAs don't bother to try to determine what scripture says. They rely on EGW as a crutch rather than searching the Bible. ANd of course many actually believe that it is impossible for her to have an opinion that is outside of the Bible. So, it's clear to see why non SDAs would think that it is she who is the priority over scripture. See, I think the difference between what I said and what you said is all semantics :-)
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly But she says things that the Bible does not say. Did Joshua say things that Moses did not say? Did Paul say things that are not found in the rest of the Bible? Isn't that different from saying she contradicts the Bible? Wouldn't we expect that God's prophet would say some things not found in the Bible? No, not if we understand the Bible. In the NT, we can all prophecy ( 1 Cor 14 ) and when someone prophecies, every time, we are to judge what they say ( 1 Cor 14 again ). The idea that God would send a special prophet to clarify and expand on the Bible after the NT was written, is wrong and based on false premises ( that the bible is incomplete, that God hid parts of His message from Christ and the early church and that a prophet today is someone special, whose words must be written down and added to scripture ).
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 Ellen White's writings do NOT have priority over Scripture. Originally Posted By: Woody That's kind of deceptive. Does the SDA Church teach that Ellen White's writings have priorty over Scripture? What did Ellen White say regarding the relationship between her writings and the Bible? These word games are irrelevant. People saying what they know they are supposed to say does not change where they turn to, the Bible, or Ellen White, and how they react when EW says something the Bible does not say.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: See, I think the difference between what I said and what you said is all semantics :-) The difference is that I've been an SDA all my life and so I can get away with sayin' it. You can't. smile smile. And while it is similar - there are important distinctions. One is that the church beliefs are not like this - it is just a large bunch of ultra conservatives who give us a bad name. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Esp when you guys quote EW to prove bible passages wrong, as has happened to me several times. Show examples of where her writings have been quoted to prove the Bible wrong. How odd that I keep asking people to show where the Bible says what the SDA claims about 1844 and get no answer, but when I insult the perfection of EW, I am flooded with responses. Again, this is off topic. I've covered it. And, you only have to read through the threads I've participated in, to see people quoting EW to disprove what I say from the Bible.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: See, I think the difference between what I said and what you said is all semantics :-) The difference is that I've been an SDA all my life and so I can get away with sayin' it. You can't. smile smile. And while it is similar - there are important distinctions. One is that the church beliefs are not like this - it is just a large bunch of ultra conservatives who give us a bad name. I would accept that no church, or any other organisation for that matter, should be judged by it's weakest members. The fact an SDA says something, does not mean it's the official SDA position. But the SDA does allow that EW is a prophet, correct ? Someone who is more than the average Christian with a special, important and unique message from God ?
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: And, you only have to read through the threads I've participated in, to see people quoting EW to disprove what I say from the Bible. Again - those who do that - do not represent the church. They only represent themselves. They are the ultra cons of the church. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: But the SDA does allow that EW is a prophet, correct ? That is not an official stance of the church. One does not have to believe that to be a member. It is also a more recent belief by some. It didn't used to be that way. I suppose it takes time to build up a Saint - even in the Catholic church. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 OK - so everyone who quotes EW as a prophet from God, is not reflecting SDA belief ? Does the SDA publish or promote her writings then ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 But the SDA does allow that EW is a prophet, correct ? Originally Posted By: Woody That is not an official stance of the church. One does not have to believe that to be a member. The official doctrine of the SDA church is that Ellen White was a prophet of God. Quote: 18. The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.) See discussion in chapter 17: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-17.htm The fact that a person may be a member and reject an official doctrine of the church doesn't affect the church's doctrines. Some Catholics claim not to accept the authority of the pope. Et Cetera. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Big difference. ANd the proof is in the interpretation and demonstration. The church does not require one to believe she was a prophet to become a member of the church. She rejected the term "prophet" and for good reason. She had the gift of prophecy. That does not mean that all she said was coming from a prophet. The term prophet has become in our church what Sainthood has become in the Catholic church. Thus - EGW was wise in just saying she was a pastor or messenger. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 Do you believe she was a genuine prophet of God? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Do you believe she was a genuine prophet of God? Not in the sense that the cons have made her out to be. I believe she was fallible. But this is not about me. This is about the official stance of the church. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly But the SDA does allow that EW is a prophet, correct ? Originally Posted By: Woody That is not an official stance of the church. One does not have to believe that to be a member. The official doctrine of the SDA church is that Ellen White was a prophet of God. Quote: 18. The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.) See discussion in chapter 17: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-17.htm The fact that a person may be a member and reject an official doctrine of the church doesn't affect the church's doctrines. Some Catholics claim not to accept the authority of the pope. Et Cetera. I scanned it enough to establish that they would quote 1 Cor 14, but hope no-one reads it enough to notice that it says that every Christian can prophecy and that this is a gift that should operate every time any church comes together. The idea of a special prophet who everyone needs to refer to, instead of an active gift in every Christian church, is at odds with the Bible.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Very good thoughts there BO. She would not approve of the way she has been used and abused. I agree. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 This is about the official stance of the church. And what is the official stance of the church regarding the work and ministry of Ellen G. White? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 You quoted it accurately John317. (#18) I just disagree with your interpretation. And I already game my interpretation. I also think that BO came close with his observation. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Posted January 5, 2012 ...She rejected the term "prophet" and for good reason. She had the gift of prophecy. That does not mean that all she said was coming from a prophet. What did Ellen White say about this? Why did say she reject the title "prophet"? Did she deny that Jesus Christ gave her many dreams and visions and messages for the SDA church? Did she deny that her work included that of prophet? See 1 SM for her answers. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: Did she deny that Jesus Christ gave her many dreams and visions and messages for the SDA church? Did she deny that her work included that of prophet? No one is denying that . Hey - BO might possibly agree with that to some degree. I gather that from one of his posts above. But if not - I bet I could convince him. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Posted January 5, 2012 If she didn't have the Holy Spirit, then I don't see how she could be a prophet. If she said anything that the Bible also says, then she was prophesying, if you want to split hairs.
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 Ellen White's writings do NOT have priority over Scripture. That's kind of deceptive. Because - many SDAs don't bother to try to determine what scripture says. They rely on EGW as a crutch rather than searching the Bible. ANd of course many actually believe that it is impossible for her to have an opinion that is outside of the Bible. So, it's clear to see why non SDAs would think that it is she who is the priority over scripture. Extremely made point. You have nailed it Woody.
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly None, really. Then how can you say that the claims made for Ellen White are the same as those made for Eddy and Jospeh Smith? Your claim is simply untrue, but you won't know this until you've compared them. Just because those two are false prophets is no evidence that Ellen White was a false prophet or that God did not raise up a true prophet in these last days. You're speaking out of ignorance rather than out of knowledge. The first thing to do is know what Ellen White said regarding her relationship to Scripture. Does she ever suggest that her writings take priority over the Bible? Compare her statements about this to the statements made by Eddy and Joseph Smith. Come on John, stick to the topic. You are just creating a "smoke screen" to cover the failed Doctrine of the Sanctuary/IJ/1844. You cannot defend it from the Bible and the Bible only. Your barrage of questions is just stalling. We all who have followed this thread have seen the points and see clearly that you depend on Ellen White for holding Doctrine number twenty-four of the twenty-eight Fundamentals. Please stay on topic. If you cannot please start a new thread.
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