miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Miz3, Why is it so difficult to just take Romans 3:12 as it reads? The context of Romans 3 does not deter whatsoever from the point that God is judged. The verse is plain and simple. I am sorry but the text does not say that God will be judged. To say that is too make the text say what it does not say. I explained the text to you already including the context.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. He surely meant 'God is judging' or something similar ? The context of the verse is clear, God already knows that no-one can be saved without Jesus' sacrifice.
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 This is a great question Gerry in regard to John 12:31. The answer is that now satan will be driven out from our human lives because God gave us Jesus Christ to make us Justified before God apart from anything humans could do/have done (see Romans chapter five). Also as Romans chapter eight states we can be "more than conquerors" through Jesus Christ because God/Holy Spirit drives all the evil out (including satan). When Jesus Christ cast out the demons from people on this earth Jesus was fulfilling this very statement He made in John12:31. God/Holy Spirit fulfills this statement of John 12:31 today when He casts out our sins/satan from us and makes us "over comers" as Romans chapter eight states. Thus, those who will be saved will have satan cast out of their lives and will have God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit rule their lives instead. This to me is the "Good News"/"Gospel" of Jesus Christ. And it is GOOD NEWS INDEED! Thank you Gerry for giving me this wonderful opportunity to cite for you and others the Good News direct from God. No longer do we have to be slaves of sin/satan. He has been cast out except to those who continue to REJECT GOD'S SALVATION and continue to cling to their slavery to sin/satan. It is this GOOD NEWS that SDA/SDA Church .org should be giving to the whole world. Unfortunately the SDA/SDA Church .org continues to think/give the unBiblical and false news of their "sanctuary/IJ/eschatology which is not the GOOD NEWS of the Bible. You see Gerry no one knows whether we are near to Christ's Second Coming or how near because as the Bible and the Bible only states "no one knows the day or the hour". If we don't know when then how can we know that it is near or far. To say that it is "near" rests only upon Hiram Edson's cornfield explanation. Ellen White endorsed it and like magic the SDA Church .org doctrine of the sanctuary/IJ/eschatology/gospel appears out of no where and it certainly does not appear out the Bible. The FACT is this doctrinal debacle comes right out of a failed prediction regarding the Second Coming of Christ and then an attempt to salvage the whole untruth and magically make what is not something to be something. Only God can take "nothing" and make "something". This is a failed human attempt to take "nothing" and make it "something". It is not based on the Bible and the Bible only. The FACTS of the documented story tell us that this doctrine (twenty-four in the SDA Church .org Fundamentals) came from the human mind(Hiram Edson) and Ellen White ratified it. This history alone debunks the claim that the doctrine is Biblical. In fact it actually demonstrates for all to see that this doctrine is unBiblical and is only the creation of the human mind trying to weasel out of a failed prediction which itself is also unBiblical and not based on correct Biblical Principles. Again Gerry I thank you for asking this great question which gives me the opportunity to share the Truth. The Hiram Edson argument actually favors Adventist doctrine, because then we cannot be accused that we got it from "Ellen White". Critics of Adventism have always accused us of getting our ideas of the Investigative Judgment and that Christ entered into the Most Holy Place in 1844 "from Ellen White", and that it came from no one else. The fact is, Hiram Edson did get it from scriptures. Although he was in a field, he was meditating upon certain scriptures he had remembered in his mind, and suddenly it dawned on him what Luke 12:34 meant - "And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately." This prove that the wedding commences prior to Christ's Second Coming, and spells the death-knell against 1. That Christ went straight into the Most Holy Place to commence the Antitypical Day of Atonement at His ascension, and 2. That the Wedding consummates AT the Second Coming. 1844 lines up PRECISELY with this Bible verse, and it makes perfect sense. The wedding is now being consummated, as the Father marry's Christ to His Church. However, with all this said, you I want you to know that you are very wrong with your assessment of Hiram Edson. Did you know that a large portion of these 75 expositors world-wide who believed the 2300 days terminated in 1843/1844/1847 did not believe that the Second Coming would occur at the terminus of this time period? Did you know that? So what did many of them believe? Many of them believed that this time period marked the commencement a "great revival" among God's people, a return to "apostolic times", when God's people would be cleansed and revived in preparation for Christ's soon return! Hiram Edson simply perceived a deeper understand of this, because revival and reformation coincides with Yom Kippur, a cleansing of the people. The Heavenly Sanctuary MIRRORS or REFLECTS what is going on in the earth with God's people. The literal things in heaven mirror the spiritual things on earth and vice versa. If you would like a wonderful sermon on this, I recommend the following: ">
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 He doesn't need to be proved right/justified. Such a concept is not Biblical. It's not enough, miz, just to declare something unbiblical. Again, I ask you - If it's not biblical, why then does God need to be justified & proved right? Isn't that what the psalmist & Paul are saying? Look, you have already admitted that Satan had laid a charge against God, i.e. that He is a liar. Doesn't He have an obligation to clear His name? And how does He do that? The Judgment, the IJ included, will not only clear the saints of Satan's accusations (Rev 12:10, Job 1 & 2), but it will also clear His name from all the lies Satan has charged against Him? NO.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Again, I am sorry Lysimachus but Hiram Edson did not get it from the Bible. Hiram Edson like those "Disappointed" at the time were trying to find some "out"/"excuse" to give them "legitimacy" for their failed prediction and their failed analysis of prophecy. I'm afraid I have also come to this conclusion. I've asked to see where the Bible actually explains this belief, and how we can know this prophecy has occurred ( which is what prophecy is for ) and got no real answers, just a rabbit warren's worth of SDA misconceptions about basic Bible doctrine, which I think mostly flow from the need to make Saturday keeping mandatory, and to make sense of the disappointment of 1844.
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I think we should just stop. You believe God is going to break His promises to Israel, Jesus lied about us ruling over Israel, and you think that the millennium is some period of 1000 years where what happens exactly, if everyone on earth is dead, satan is bound ( so he can't deceive dead people ) and we're up in 'heaven' somewhere ? At the core, the main question is, how can you tell that something happened in 1844 ? Prophecy is useless if it explains something that we would otherwise not even know was happening, and as far as I can see, your doctrine is based on some people frantically searching the bible to make up a story to cover a failed prediction. There is no passage that describes the process you're talking about, only a long chain of logic that is predicated on 'something must have happened in 1844'. Well said.
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Sorry, I am still not in a position to read all this, that's why I tried to tell you once before, so you don't waste your time writing these sort of epic posts when I just don't have time to read them. A simple explanation of how 1844 was a visible event, and how the Bible explains the details of what you claim, I will read. SDA cannot do this. They try and cover their failed doctrine with lots and lots and lots of words but nary a one from the Bible and the Bible only that speaks plainly and clearly that there is Sanctuary/IJ doctrine that took place in 1844. Lots and lots of suppose this and suppose that. But nary a clear unambiguous text.
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 We did see momentous events transpire in 1844. There is a HUGE list of critical events that transpired in that year the world-over. We have asked you again and again to give us PROOF OF THIS. You keep ignoring this and thus your unBiblical assertions fail. You actually have no data to prove your assertions.
Stan Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 BibleOnly It is kinda like this, you are coming into an astromathematics classroom, when everyone else is on Chapter 21and you come in saying nothing makes sense in Chapter 21, and you have not done the first 20 chapters. Let's start by asking you questions, on basic bible teachings. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
miz3 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly God has no literal home in a physical place called heaven, that is natural thinking. What is your list of events that were foretold in the bible and happened in 1844 ? Natural thinking? What you have is IDEALISTIC thinking, where you spiritualize and mystify the plain sense reading of God's Word! We have no reason whatsoever to spiritaulize the New Jerusalem in heaven. God made a literal earth, why wouldn't he have a literal city in heaven? Are we to conclude that God and the angels are just floating in outer-space like stupid ghosts? What foolishness! Satan did not copy God with the cities on earth? Where do you think Satan got it from? John goes through all that work describing the dimensions of the city, yet somehow, it's just nothing but "air"? Historic Adventism believes that the SPIRITUAL things on earth mirror the LITERAL things in heaven. Here is the Biblical, Adventist, Pioneer view. We are living in the Dispensation of the Holy Spirit, and under this Dispensation, we have the following: The things of God up in heaven have a literal application, the things of God on earth have a spiritual application. As long as you remember this principle, you will save yourself a lot of confusion and error. 1. In heaven, God is a Literal God. On earth, God is a Spiritual God--through the Holy Spirit. 2. Christ in heaven is present Literally. On earth He is present with you Spiritually. 3. In heaven there is a Literal Holy City. On earth there is a Spiritual Holy City--the Christian Church. 4. In heaven there is a Literal Temple. On earth there is a Spiritual Temple--the Temple of the Christian Church--believers--each believer is a Spiritual Temple. And all believers together make up a vast glorious Spiritual Temple made up of spiritual living stones. 5. In heaven there is a Literal Throne. On earth, there is a Spiritual Throne--the throne of the heart. 6. In heaven there are Literal Stones that are a part of the Holy City. On earth there are Spiritual Stones--each believer is a living stone. 7. In heaven there is a Literal Priesthood--Christ and the 24 elders. On earth there is a Spiritual Priesthood of believers--we are spiritual creatures. 8. In heaven there is a Literal Intercessor--the man Christ Jesus. On earth there is a Spiritual Intercessor--the Holy Spirit--who makes intercession with groanings and utterances. 9. In heaven there is a Literal Alter of Incense. On earth there is a Spiritual Alter--the Altar of the Heart. 10. In heaven there is Literal Incense. On earth there is Spiritual Incense, which represents the prayers of the saints. 11. In heaven there is a Literal offering of Christ's blood and His righteousness. On earth there are Spiritual offerings--the offerings of prayer, praise, and thanksgiving according to 1 Peter 2:5. 12. In heaven there are Literal lampstands. On earth there are spiritual lampstands representing the Church--the 7 churches. 13. In heaven there is Literal light in the lampstands. On earth there is Spiritual light in the Church--the light of the Holy Spirit, the light of truth. 14. In heaven there is a Literal shewbread. On earth there is a Spiritual shewbread--the Word of God. 15. In heaven there is a Literal Tree of Life. On earth, there is a Spiritual Tree of Life--the Word of God, the leaves of the Bible. 16. In heaven there is a Literal River of Life. On earth there is a Spiritual River of Life--the Holy Spirit (John 7:38,39) 17. In heaven there is a Literal resurrection of believers--when we enter the Kingdom of Glory there is a Literal resurrection. On earth there is a Spiritual resurrection of believers that are being born again. 18. In heaven there is Eternal Life for the believer Literally. On earth now we have Eternal Life Spiritually. 19. In heaven God's law is on Literal Tables in a Literal Temple. On earth God's law is on Spiritual Tables of the Spiritual Temple of the believer. 20. In heaven believers will sit Literally with Christ sharing His throne. On earth now believers sit with Christ in heavenly places in the Spiritual sense according to Ephesians 2. 21. In heaven it's a Literal Kingdom of Glory. On earth it's a Spiritual Kingdom of Grace. 22. In heaven Jesus is king--Literally king. On earth He is a Spiritual king now in the Kingdom of Grace. (Principles derived from Austin P. Cooke) This Adventist understanding was a revolutionary, God-ordained understanding that totally turns Evangelical thought upside down. It completely overturns their literalistics perspectives of an earthly reign. Such individuals looking forward to a literal reign on the earth during the millennium are repeating the mistakes of the Pharisees who thought Christ was going to establish a literal reign on a literal throne in literal Jerusalem. God cannot be contained. God actually contains everything that is. God is not a human who needs a "house" to dwell in. Your God is tooooooo small and it is not the God of the Bible. " 12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has understood the mind[d] of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor? 14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?" Isaiah 40:12-14. " 21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. 23 He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. 24 No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground, than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff. 25 “To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One. 26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing." Isaiah 40:21-26. "28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:28. No God is not contained in a "box". God is beyond beyond!
Lysimachus Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Again, I am sorry Lysimachus but Hiram Edson did not get it from the Bible. Hiram Edson like those "Disappointed" at the time were trying to find some "out"/"excuse" to give them "legitimacy" for their failed prediction and their failed analysis of prophecy. The Bible and Bible only did not saying even one thing about 1844/Heavenly Sanctuary. Yes, the Bible does refer to the Heavenly Sanctuary but it does link the Heavenly Sanctuary to the 1844 date. Let us be honest as well. SDA and the SDA Church .org would not have adapted Hiram Edson's "excuse" as its official position without Ellen White's blessing. Thus, because of Ellen White SDA and SDA Church .org hold to this unBiblical doctrine. Thus, Hiram Edson does NOT FAVOR SDA. Second, you keep saying "world wide" for those 75 expositors. Yet you have not listed all seventy-five and the countries world wide they came from. Again, we both know that these "expositors" came only from Western Europe/US. That is NOT WORLD WIDE. It is dishonest to use the word "world wide" when in FACT it is not world wide. If it is "world wide" we await your list and the world countries these expositors come from. IOW prove it. Third again I ask you to give PROOF THAT THE THERE WAS A WORLD WIDE (GLOBAL) spiritual awakening. Please give the documented proof that would include Africa, South America, the Far East, etc. Please demonstrate with actual documented data that this spiritual awakening was as spectacular as you claim on a Global basis. We await your proof. Anyone can make claims but we need to see your proof. If you cannot demonstrate with proof then we must assume that you are just not being accurate even in the least little way. Hiram Edson got it from the Bible. If you want primary sources as proof that there was a world-wide global awakening, read J.N. Loughborough's "The Second Great Advent Movement", and LeRoy Froom's Volume 4 of "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers". Froom provides all the primary sources from around the world. I was discussing these topics with a Church Historian over the phone the other day, and he and I both agreed that people like you are completely aloof to what really went on during these time periods because you don't study the material. And for the record, I have all 4 volumes sitting on my desk right now. Just volume 4 is 1295 pages long. :) ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 God cannot be contained. God actually contains everything that is. God is not a human who needs a "house" to dwell in. Your God is tooooooo small and it is not the God of the Bible. " 12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? 13 Who has understood the mind[d] of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor? 14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? Who was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?" Isaiah 40:12-14. " 21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? 22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. 23 He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. 24 No sooner are they planted, no sooner are they sown, no sooner do they take root in the ground, than he blows on them and they wither, and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff. 25 “To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One. 26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing." Isaiah 40:21-26. "28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:28. No God is not contained in a "box". God is beyond beyond! How does my list show that God is contained in a "box"? Actually, it is YOU who locks up the Father in the Second Apartment! lol The very fact that God is not contained vindicates Adventist doctrine that God could be in the Holy Place as well in 31 AD., and not just the Second Apartment. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 BibleOnly It is kinda like this, you are coming into an astromathematics classroom, when everyone else is on Chapter 21and you come in saying nothing makes sense in Chapter 21, and you have not done the first 20 chapters. Let's start by asking you questions, on basic bible teachings. The issue is simple. We agree the Bible is true, in theory, but in practice, you don't believe a lot of what it says, because you believe what Ellen White says. This thread keeps going only because I keep asking - where does the Bible say what you believe about 1844 ? Specifics, not, a prophecy ends here, so we believe this happened based on what Ellen White said.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Hiram Edson got it from the Bible. If you want primary sources as proof that there was a world-wide global awakening, read J.N. Loughborough's "The Second Great Advent Movement", and LeRoy Froom's Volume 4 of "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers". Froom provides all the primary sources from around the world. I was discussing these topics with a Church Historian over the phone the other day, and he and I both agreed that people like you are completely aloof to what really went on during these time periods because you don't study the material. And for the record, I have all 4 volumes sitting on my desk right now. Just volume 4 is 1295 pages long. I can't speak for miz3, but I have no interest in your 1295 page books, only the Bible. I am willing to hear from those sources regarding the 'worldwide' nature of the events you describe, only in so far as you then show that the Bible foretold them. Otherwise, it's just a human movement, from a time when China and Japan certainly where not part of the 'world' in the mind of most western writers, let alone Fiji or the Tonga Islands. The core question is, where does the Bible say what you claim regarding 1844, specifically ?
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 How does my list show that God is contained in a "box"? Actually, it is YOU who locks up the Father in the Second Apartment! lol The very fact that God is not contained vindicates Adventist doctrine that God could be in the Holy Place as well in 31 AD., and not just the Second Apartment. Second Apartment ? What do you take the word 'omnipresent' to mean ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 See the well-documented book, Midnight Cry, by F.D. Nichol. http://www.andrews.edu/library/car/collection/N/Nichol_Collection.pdf John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 See the well-documented book, Midnight Cry, by F.D. Nichols. Not sure which post this is a reply to, but I have some SDA books, I've read them, and compared to scripture to see where they make up stories and don't just rely on the Bible. Bible Only, remember ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 See the well-documented book, Midnight Cry, by F.D. Nichols. Not sure which post this is a reply to, but I have some SDA books, I've read them, and compared to scripture to see where they make up stories and don't just rely on the Bible. Bible Only, remember ? Are you interested in historical documentation or not? I thought you were interested in learning what happened during 1830-1844. Maybe not. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 OK - see, when you don't quote, it's confusing. Yes, I am interested in hearing about documentation about what happened then ( although I think SDA specific books will present the SDA perception, I'd prefer the Encyclopedia Brittanica as a real source ). Where do I find it ? Does it have a bibliography listing secular sources that back it's claims ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lysimachus How does my list show that God is contained in a "box"? Actually, it is YOU who locks up the Father in the Second Apartment! lol The very fact that God is not contained vindicates Adventist doctrine that God could be in the Holy Place as well in 31 AD., and not just the Second Apartment. Second Apartment ? What do you take the word 'omnipresent' to mean ? Jesus Christ cannot be personally everywhere at once. That is why the Holy Spirit was sent to the earth as His representative. The Holy Spirit can be with all believers at once, but Jesus personally cannot be. John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. Luke 24:38-39 And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? [39] See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Acts 1:9-11 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. [10] And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, [11] and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven." John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Have you read the book, Midnight Cry? If not, get it and read it. You can access it online. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Jesus Christ cannot be personally everywhere at once. That is why the Holy Spirit was sent to the earth as His representative. The Holy Spirit can be with all believers at once, but Jesus personally cannot be. John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. Luke 24:38-39 And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? [39] See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Acts 1:9-11 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. [10] And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, [11] and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven." So, to recap: 1 - Jesus could not be everywhere with a body of flesh 2 - He was changed after He died, so now He can be 2Th 3:16 ¶ Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is always with us, but Jesus moves from one person to another ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 ...they make up stories and don't just rely on the Bible. Where have SDAs made up stories? We do rely on the Bible but the Bible is not our only authority. Our official doctrines tell you that Ellen White is also an authority. We believe her to be a genuine prophet of God. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 2 - He was changed after He died, so now He can be 2Th 3:16 ¶ Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all. Jesus can be with us through His Spirit, but His death didn't change Him so that He can be everywhere at once. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly ...they make up stories and don't just rely on the Bible. Where have SDAs made up stories? We do rely on the Bible but the Bible is not our only authority. I am pleased that you admit this. The Bible is my only authority. I have a book called 'the ride of your life', it's meant to be about salvation. It often paraphrases half scriptures, and contradicts the full verse. It is full of made up stories about Jesus, not always flat out things that could not be true, but things that the Bible never says. The overall attempt is to appeal to the emotions with emotional stories, and I honestly could not work out what the core Gospel message was from it. I guess I am used to a simple and clear Gospel - Jesus died for you and if you obey Him, He will give you evidence that He is real and has saved you.
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