BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly 2 - He was changed after He died, so now He can be 2Th 3:16 ¶ Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all. Jesus can be with us through His Spirit, but His death didn't change Him so that He can be everywhere at once. You think Jesus was always and will always be a man, in human form ? What about God then ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 ..I am pleased that you admit this. The Bible is my only authority. Our entire church "admits" this. It is a part of our Fundamental Beliefs. I think the evidence shows that you misunderstand our beliefs. The Bible is our only standard of faith and doctrine. Ellen White's writings are judged by the Bible. But that doesn't mean that everything she wrote must be found in the Bible. Joshua's writings must be tested and judged by the writings of Moses, but that doesn't mean everything Joshua wrote must be found in Moses. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Your test is flawed. The book is sealed, and now, anyone who adds to the bible, is cursed for it.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 You think Jesus was always and will always be a man, in human form? When Jesus returns for His Church, does He return as a man? What was Christ when He left? Was He a man? The angels-- who cannot lie-- said that "this same Jesus" will return in the same way as the disciples saw Him go into heaven. How did they see Him go? Was He omnipresent at that time? Look at these verses: Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 2 Tim. 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Rev. 19:11-16 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. [12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. [13] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. [14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. [15] From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. [16] On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. NOTE: Jesus Christ will forever be THE GOD-MAN. 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. NOTE: The Greek indicates that Jesus Christ continues to come in the flesh. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 "The angels-- who cannot lie- said that "this same Jesus" will return in the same way as the disciples saw Him go into heaven. " Typical SDA legalism. Did Jesus walk through walls before He died, or was His body changed after He died to a spiritual one ? Does 'this same Jesus' mean He'll have the same hair cut or that it will be Jesus Himself ? "NOTE: Jesus Christ will forever be THE GOD-MAN. " No Bible verse says that
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 "The angels-- who cannot lie- said that "this same Jesus" will return in the same way as the disciples saw Him go into heaven. " Typical SDA legalism. Did Jesus walk through walls before He died, or was His body changed after He died to a spiritual one ? Does 'this same Jesus' mean He'll have the same hair cut or that it will be Jesus Himself ? Of course His body changed. He has a glorified body, just like the saved will have at the resurrection. See 1 Cor. 15. Yet Jesus is still a man, the same man that He was when lived upon this earth. He is a man of flesh and bone, according to His own testimony. 2 John 7 says also that Christ is in the flesh today. So also 1 Tim. 2: 5. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 NOTE: Jesus Christ will forever be THE GOD-MAN. Originally Posted By: BibleOnly No Bible verse says that The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ is God and man. Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly "The angels-- who cannot lie- said that "this same Jesus" will return in the same way as the disciples saw Him go into heaven. " Typical SDA legalism. Did Jesus walk through walls before He died, or was His body changed after He died to a spiritual one ? Does 'this same Jesus' mean He'll have the same hair cut or that it will be Jesus Himself ? Of course His body changed. He has a glorified body, just like the saved will have at the resurrection. See 1 Cor. 15. Yet Jesus is still a man, the same man that He was when lived upon this earth. He is a man of flesh and bone, according to His own testimony. 2 John 7 says also that Christ is in the flesh today. So also 1 Tim. 2: 5. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; This is just making a point about Jesus having come as a man, and therefore being able to mediate. I think you mean 2Jo 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. This means He came in the flesh, not that He stayed, He did not, quite plainly. I don't know how to even discuss this with you, it's just insane. I am sorry, I don't mean disrespect, but there is no lteral place that is heaven, and Jesus is not a flesh and blood man sitting on the right hand of God, who is somehow everywhere and yet especially in one place to cover His Son's physical limitations. How was Jesus born as a baby, if He'd been a flesh and blood man before ?
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: John3:17 NOTE: Jesus Christ will forever be THE GOD-MAN. Originally Posted By: BibleOnly No Bible verse says that The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ is God and man. Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Neither verse says that. The first does not even indicate that Jesus is a man in any way. The second refers to the fact that Jesus came as a man, so He could be our mediator.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 How was Jesus born as a baby, if He'd been a flesh and blood man before ? Jesus Christ was NOT flesh and blood before the Incarnation. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 What was He, and why can't He be that again after rising from the dead ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 What was He, and why can't He be that again after rising from the dead ? The Father gave the Son to the human family FOREVER. He will always be a real human being. He returns to the earth as glorified human being. Rev. 19: 11-16. Jesus Christ was raised from death physically and literally. John 2:19-21 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." [20] The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" [21] But he was speaking about the temple of his body. Romans 1:4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Neither verse says that. The first does not even indicate that Jesus is a man in any way. Titus 2: 13 says that Christ is our great God. 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim. 2: 5 says that our mediator is a glorified man, the God-man, Jesus Christ, the same man who was resurrected from the dead. Only a human being-- the God-man-- can be a priest between God and man. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Have you read the book, Midnight Cry? If not, get it and read it. You can access it online. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Does the Bible teach that Christ was resurrected phyically and literally from grave? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 ...I am more interested to see if anyone here can show any Bible verse that backs up the SDA claims regarding what happened in 1844, in this thread. Tell what you believe SDAs claim happened in 1844? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Does the Bible teach that Jesus had a physical body after the resurrection identical to the one He had before ?
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 I can't make much sense of it, but somehow God started to judge people in preparation for the second coming, either to establish who is saved, or to show the devil who is saved. I'm not sure of the details, it's obviously a little nuts. In the absence of Bible verses to explain any of this in detail, I think it depends on whose story I am listening to, and isn't really clear at all.
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Does the Bible teach that Jesus had a physical body after the resurrection identical to the one He had before ? NO, but then SDAs have never made this claim. Your question actually only reveals your misunderstanding of what we believe. Again, my question: Does the Bible teach that Christ was resurrected phyically and literally from the grave? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 No, my question reveals the illogic of what you're claiming. I didn't expect you to say yes. I'm trying to shut this down because it's not remotely related to the topic at hand, and because what you seem to be arguing is just nuts in my view. Jesus is not still a flesh and blood man in a single literal location. If He were, how would He be with us at all ? If He and the Father are one, how can He be flesh and God be Spirit ?
Moderators John317 Posted January 4, 2012 Moderators Posted January 4, 2012 Study the following chapter: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-23.htm When you've read it and attemped to understand it, come back and we can talk about it. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 I've read it. It's plain wrong. "It is clear, therefore, that the Scriptures present the heavenly sanctuary as a real place (Heb. 8:2, NEB), not a metaphor or abstraction.4 The heavenly sanctuary is the primary dwelling place of God." If Revelation is factual, then heaven means being turned to stone and used to build a building. Revelation is a book of word pictures, not a home movie where everything is exactly as it is stated. Even then, Rev does not state what you believe started to happen in 1844. No Bible verse does that, in typical SDA fashion, it's some verses, some assumptions and a chain of human logic, leading to human conclusions.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 "a. The removal of sins from the sanctuary relates to the first, or pre-Advent, investigative phase of the judgment. It "focuses on the names recorded in the Book of Life just as the Day of Atonement focused on the removal of the confessed sins of the penitent from the sanctuary. False believers will be sifted out; the faith of true believers and their union with Christ will be reaffirmed before the loyal universe, and the records of their sins will be blotted out." So, this means that the book of life is being reviewed, in other words, that God did not know before 1844 who was saved and who was not, names were added erroneously. 'Before the loyal universe', does this mean God is explaining and establishing who is saved before the planets, comets and stars ? What does this mean ? How is it Biblical ? There's not one verse presented to back this up.
BibleOnly Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 "2. The time of restoration, cleansing, and judgment. God would not permit the eclipse of the truth of Christ's high-priestly ministry to go on indefinitely. Through faithful, God-fearing men and women He revived His cause. The Reformation's partial rediscovery of Christ's role as our Mediator caused a great revival within the Christian world. Yet there was still more truth to be revealed about Christ's heavenly ministry. Daniel's vision indicated that Christ's role as our high priest would be made especially prominent toward "'the time of the end'" (Dan. 8:17), when He would begin His special work of cleansing and judgment in addition to His continual intercessory ministry (Heb. 7:25).35 The vision specifies when Christ was to begin this antitypical day of atonement ministry—the work of the investigative judgment (Dan. 7) and cleansing of the sanctuary—"Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8:14, KJV).36 Because the vision refers to the time of the end, the sanctuary it speaks of cannot be the earthly sanctuary—for it was destroyed in A.D. 70. The prophecy must therefore refer to the new covenant sanctuary in heaven—the place where Christ ministers for our salvation." I know for sure that Daniel does not talk about the specifics of what the SDA claims for 1844. Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Nothing about this verse indicates that Jesus started to make intercession in 1844. I get the feeling that these people look for a scripture that has a keyword for what they are claiming, without ever once looking at the Bible and asking 'does the Bible say what we are claiming ?' Of course, it doesn't have to, because you elevate Ellen White to be the equal of scripture, that is the false prophet that is at the root of all the errors of the SDA, as far as I can see.
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