Daniel 11

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

... "be cleansed" is from the Hebrew 'tsadaq' which may also be translated "be vindicated" (see WTM, JDP - Groves-Wheeler Westminster Morphology and Lemma Database (release 4.4). Copyright © 2005).

Thus v14 may also be "Unto 2300 days then shall the holy be vindicated." Which event would vindicate the people of God other than the 2nd Coming itself?

Besides, identifying 'be cleansed' of Dan 8:14 (from Hebrew 'tsadaq') with the cleansing of the sanctuary in the day of atonement in Lev 16 is stretching the phrase too far. 'Cleansing' in Leviticus is from the Hebrew 'taher' which is concerned with physical cleansing as from leprosy (see Lev 14:52-57), bodily discharge or issue (Lev 15:1-33) or cleansing from sin (Lev 16:19, 30).

Miller was therefore correct as to the endpoint of the 2300 day-prophecy. The flaw was in the misapplication of Numbers 14:34 and Ezek 4:6. Had he, as others should have had, used the key provided by the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Master Teacher, that the setting up of the AoD will trigger the rapid succession of events starting from the great tribulation and culminating in the 2nd Coming, then no great disappointment would have befallen the people of God in 1844.

The same non-use of the Master's key currently have lead many to tread a way of understanding prophecy in a direction away from where the Scripture leads.

[Samie]

The use of another key instead of the Master Key, opened up a different door of understanding the time periods involved in prophecy. Thus, it had long been maintained that vv21 to 45 of Daniel 11 spanned centuries, nay, even more than a millennium, instead of just within the life span of a man. What strikes one amazed is the tenacity exhibited by many in holding on to this view despite the literal absence in the verses concerned of a direct statement that says or just even hints that the vile-person king of v21 did not continue in power until v45.

But the use of the Master Key opened up the right door. Despite the absence in the current week's SS Lesson of an explicit sign that would tell us whether the Lord's coming is just around the bend, the door of understanding opened up by the Master Key leads us to this explicit sign: the setting up of the abomination of desolation - the image of the beast - which will both speak and cause those who refuse to worship the beast to be killed.

Since when can an idol or an image speak, and pinpoint who are to be subject for assassination? We are now in the era of robotics and of cyborgs ran by sophisticated software able to skim at lightning speeds through terabytes of data housed in their physical hard drives. It is therefore no wonder if "666" - the number of the beast - and "www", the prefix of all websites and acronym of the world wide web, are directly related since the Hebrew letter "v" (pronounced "waw" and corresponds to the English "w") represents the number "6" in Hebrew!

[Samie]

Biblical basis why end of the 42 months could possibly be the 2nd Coming:

3-1/2 times or years is equivalent to 42 months. This is the time period allotted for the beast to continue with his blasphemous power and make war with the saints of God.

Quote:

Revelation 13:5-7

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This beast is described in Daniel 7 as the little horn. Notice the end point of the war of the little horn against the saints:

Quote:

Daniel 7:21-22

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The war of the little horn against the saints will be UNTIL the coming of the Ancient of Days and the time the saints possessed the kingdom. This coming to the Ancient of Days is described in vision as the coming of the Son of Man with the clouds of heaven:

Quote:

KJV Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him

The setting where judgment was given to the saints is likewise described in vision in one scenario with the Ancient of Days with books being opened.

Quote:

Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

This book opening scenario is described in Dan 12:1, 2 and is unmistakeably the 2nd Coming.

Quote:

Daniel 12:1-2

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[Samie]

Two years after Daniel saw in vision the little horn of Dan 7, he again was shown another vision of this little horn:

Quote:

Daniel 8:9-12

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Take note that the little horn was given a host (from Hebrew "tsaba'" which could mean army) which will purposely be against the 'daily'. A description depicting an identical scenario against the 'daily' was given to Daniel in ch 11:31.

Quote:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Because the little horn will be up against the 'daily' as with the vile person king of Dan 11:21, it only follows that they are one and the same. Notice the description of the little horn depicted as king of fierce countenance:

Quote:

Daniel 8:23-25

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The little horn which is the king of fierce countenance who will destroy the holy people of God will exercise a power not his own! Revelation tells us the source of his power:

Quote:

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The fact that the little horn or the king of fierce countenance is the beast whose image is the abomination of desolation, the setting up of which in the holy place heralds the nearness of the 2nd Coming, leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the exploits of the little horn will be up until the 2nd Coming. This only means that the 42-month period of warring against the saints (see Rev 13:5-7) is within the lifespan of a man and therefore must necessarily be literal months.

[Aliensanctuary]

It's unfortunate that the Founding Fathers and Mothers of Adventism didn't study the book of Daniel as carefully as they should have. There would have been no false prophecies about the exact day of the Son of Man's return in the mid-1800's. Their legacy lives on, though, misleading an entire denomination into believing that the Last Days events in Daniel have already occurred.

I do have a question for you, Samie. Ezek 38 and 39 describe the assault of Gog and Magog on Israel, then their utter destruction. Where do you think this fits into Daniel's time lines?

[Gail]

It's unfortunate that the Founding Fathers and Mothers of Adventism didn't study the book of Daniel as carefully as they should have. There would have been no false prophecies about the exact day of the Son of Man's return in the mid-1800's. Their legacy lives on' date=' though, misleading an entire denomination into believing that the Last Days events in Daniel have already occurred.quote']

Was it a case of not studying carefully enough or that the understanding has still been unfolding since that time?

[Samie]

The taking away of the 'daily' is depicted in Dan 8:11, 9:27, 11:31 and 12:11. Therefore, it is one and the same act recorded in different locations but the doing of which must necessarily be attributable to one and the same power.

KJV Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

NIV Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

KJV Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

KJV Daniel 12:11 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

It is the little horn = king of fierce countenance = vile person king = man of sin = beast who is responsible for the taking away of the 'daily'. This taking away of the daily is precursory to the setting up of the abomination of desolation, an event which the Lord said will usher in a rapid succession of events culminating in the 2nd Coming. This then leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the events and time periods involved and described in these different chapters quoted above - 2300 days, 70 weeks, 1290 & 1335 days - are all to occur shortly before the 2nd Coming well-within the lifespan of a man and must necessarily be literal days and weeks.

[Aliensanctuary]

Probably the Founding Fathers and Mothers biggest mistake was the 1-year=1-day interpretation of prophecies, then, the attempt to match historical events with the Last Days prophecies in Dan and Rev.

What they created, including the "prophetic fulfillments" of the "Dark Day, the Lisbon Earthquake, the annual meteor shower in October, 1844, etc.", was all misinformation. They, of course, mistakenly, but honestly, thought it was near the end of time and that Christ would very soon appear in the skies to take them home.

But, we don't have take everything Auntie Ellen says as the inerrant Word of God. Remember the parlor tricks the Whites began their ministry with...she, holding up a big Bible while in "vision", he, holding a mirror up to her to "prove" she wasn't breathing, and so on? Unfortunately, the hardliners keep beating the dead horse, but it won't get up.

We each have a brain that we can use to study the prophecies carefully, just as Samie has been doing in this topic. As the Messenger speaking to Daniel said, the prophecies were for the Last Days, not the Last Millennia. During the Last Days we will see the Four Beasts rise up in sequence from a surging sea of people, then rule the whole world until the End comes.

I believe in the Sabbath Day of rest, and I believe that the Son of Man will return to this world, but only after the events he prophesied come to pass. Therefore, I am a Seventh Day Adventist. I think it's time for the SDA Denomination to turn over a new page and stop misleading its members.

All religions are man-made, therefore, we shouldn't rely on them in our own search for truth. The time will come when the whole world will be tested to see who will serve the LORD. No church can help us on that day.

[Samie]

It's unfortunate that the Founding Fathers and Mothers of Adventism didn't study the book of Daniel as carefully as they should have. There would have been no false prophecies about the exact day of the Son of Man's return in the mid-1800's. Their legacy lives on, though, misleading an entire denomination into believing that the Last Days events in Daniel have already occurred.

I do have a question for you, Samie. Ezek 38 and 39 describe the assault of Gog and Magog on Israel, then their utter destruction. Where do you think this fits into Daniel's time lines?

[Samie]

...

Was it a case of not studying carefully enough or that the understanding has still been unfolding since that time?

I honestly believe it "has still been unfolding since that time".

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: Gail

...

Was it a case of not studying carefully enough or that the understanding has still been unfolding since that time?

I honestly believe it "has still been unfolding since that time".

I agree with you most heartily! The knowledge on Daniel has increased even in the last few years in a wonderful way!

[Samie]

...

It is the little horn = king of fierce countenance = vile person king = man of sin = beast who is responsible for the taking away of the 'daily'. This taking away of the daily is precursory to the setting up of the abomination of desolation, an event which the Lord said will usher in a rapid succession of events culminating in the 2nd Coming. This then leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the events and time periods involved and described in these different chapters quoted above - 2300 days, 70 weeks, 1290 & 1335 days - are all to occur shortly before the 2nd Coming well-within the lifespan of a man and must necessarily be literal days and weeks.

[Samie]

...

A close examination of the verses from v16 onwards reveals that the vile-person king of v21 is the successor to the successor of the king who caused the subject destruction of Jerusalem, the glorious land. Therefore, the vile person king = the little horn = man of sin = beast of Rev 13 will be from the country that will defeat and inflict destruction upon Jerusalem in a war yet to come. The issuance of the restoration decree after this foretold destruction had been inflicted upon Jerusalem signals the start of the 70-week prophecy.

[Aliensanctuary]

+------------------------------------- 2300 days(6.4 years) ----------------------------------+

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+----------------------1335 days (3.7 years)---------------------+

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+------------ 1290 days (3.6 years)-------------+--- 45 days --+

. . +--7 wks--+---62 weeks(1.2 years)--+-1 wk-+ .. +------ 3-1/2 times (years) -----+

. . +---------------70 weeks (1.3 years)-----------+ .. +----------- 42 months (3.5 years)-----------+

(assuming 360 days/year, 12 months/year)

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

and the panorama on the number of the beast shown to him could be the representation of the world wide web - "www" - which is Hebrew for "666".

Interesting. Those who use the internet at that time, if it even exists, will have the Mark of the Beast?

Quote:

mark (khar'-ag-mah): etching, scratch, or stamp.

We might get the impression that this is a permanent mark, like a tattoo or brand, to plainly identify who are slaves of the Beast.

Same story for the seal of God, used to identify those who are his slaves.

Quote:

seal (sfrag-id'-zo): to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation

The Seal of God, I suspect, might be something artistic with seven or twelve of something, maybe stars, along with the name or initials of its owner. Kind of like a logo where seven may indicate that the bearer's origin was Earth.

Rev 7:2, 3

Quote:

And I saw another angel coming from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. "Wait! Don't hurt the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants."

Some may think this seal is invisible, but it's more likely a visible, easily identifiable mark, something difficult to conceal.

Daniel doesn't specifically mention the Mark of the Beast or the Seal of God, but we might assume that those who bear the permanent Seal of God on their foreheads will have their names written in the Book of Life.

Dan 12:1

Quote:

But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book.

[Samie]

The taking away of the 'daily' is depicted in Dan 8:11, 9:27, 11:31 and 12:11. Therefore, it is one and the same act recorded in different locations but the doing of which must necessarily be attributable to one and the same power.

KJV Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

NIV Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

KJV Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

KJV Daniel 12:11 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

It is the little horn = king of fierce countenance = vile person king = man of sin = beast who is responsible for the taking away of the 'daily'. This taking away of the daily is precursory to the setting up of the abomination of desolation, an event which the Lord said will usher in a rapid succession of events culminating in the 2nd Coming. This then leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the events and time periods involved and described in these different chapters quoted above - 2300 days, 70 weeks, 1290 & 1335 days - are all to occur shortly before the 2nd Coming well-within the lifespan of a man and must necessarily be literal days and weeks.

In view of the above, to insist that there were other events that had already transpired in fulfillment of the yet-to-be-fulfilled time prophecies above-enumerated, would be to set aside the plain declaration of Scriptures and tantamount to a display of disbelief in the words of the Savior relative to the setting up of the abomination of desolation.

If we are a people who are supposed to uphold what Scriptures say, what prevents us from discarding what we have long been taught but proven to be not what Scriptures say?

[Samie]

...

If we are a people who are supposed to uphold what Scriptures say, what prevents us from discarding what we have long been taught but proven to be not what Scriptures say?

[Lysimachus]

Samie,

You pit Ellen White against the Bible constantly.

It is simple:

Everything must be supported by the Bible and the Bible alone. But whatever correct position that may be, from the Bible alone, it will never, and I mean never contradict inspiration given to us by the Spirit of Prophecy. If your private interpretation of the Scriptures contradict the inspired teachings of Sister White, it's not because Ellen White is wrong and the Bible is right, but because your interpretation of those passages are wrong, and the correct interpretation of them is in accordance with the Spirit of Prophecy.

[Samie]

Samie,

You pit Ellen White against the Bible constantly.

It is simple:

Everything must be supported by the Bible and the Bible alone. But whatever correct position that may be, from the Bible alone, it will never, and I mean never contradict inspiration given to us by the Spirit of Prophecy. If your private interpretation of the Scriptures contradict the inspired teachings of Sister White, it's not because Ellen White is wrong and the Bible is right, but because your interpretation of those passages are wrong, and the correct interpretationr of them is in accordance with the Spirit of Prophecy.

[12tribes]

In Daniel 11 when the saying do according to his will is mentioned it is introducing a new power.

Daniel 11:3 KJV

(3) And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

Daniel 11:16 KJV

(16) But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:36 KJV

(36) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

[Samie]

In Daniel 11 when the saying do according to his will is mentioned it is introducing a new power.

Daniel 11:3 KJV

(3) And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

Daniel 11:16 KJV

(16) But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:36 KJV

(36) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

After almost a month of silence in this thread, but of course, it seems the viewing never ceased, finally, the silence is broken.

Thanks for breaking the silence, 12tribes.

May I ask whether you believe the king of v36 is the vile-person of v21? If not, can you explain why not, citing Biblical proof, if any?

I believe the king of v36 is the vile person of v21 because an unbiased reading of vv22 - 36 (KJV) reveals that:

1. The 'him' in v22 refers to this vile person.

2. The 'he' in vv23-25 can only refer to him (the 2nd 'he' in v25 is the king of the south).

3. He is still referred to as one of the kings in v27.

4. The 'he' in vv28-30 refers to this vile person.

5. Through his army, he is responsible for taking away the 'daily' and the subsequent setting up of the abomination of desolation spoken of in v31.

6. He corrupts a group of people in v32 and vv33-35 speaks of two different groups of people.

7. Then v36 comes and provides description similar to other portions of Scriptures (see 2 Thes 2:1-4; Rev 13:5-7), and his exploits continues up till v45.

[Lysimachus]

Perhaps, Samie, we have not responded to you, because we do not find it expedient to echo your broken record.

You have simply ignored all my previous arguments concerning the definition and use of "he" in Daniel 11, for which I gave you a vivid example from Romans 13. "Unbiased" readings can only be conducted when harmonized with the hermeneutical principles found in other scriptures, and employing Isaiah 28:7-14.

The "him" and "he" in verse 23 and 24 is referring to a new rise in power, unequivocally, because the events that transpire are events that transpire only after the Prince of the Covenant, which is Jesus, is broken. The expression "he" is referring to a sequential line of rulers of the same power: Rome.

In verse 24 and 25, we see the rise of the Papacy without their own army, and the pope is a "man of peace" who will rule for a limited time. The 1260 days/years of Daniel 7:25; Rev 12:6,14. The king of the north now enters into its papal phase.

In verses 25-30, Pagan Rome made no such invasion of Egypt/south after the death of Jesus. So this must be the papal-led Crusades against Islam initiated by Pope Urban II in 1095. Islam now controlled the area to the south of Palestine. The king of the south is now in its Islamic phase.

We've had 9 major crusades and many minor ones, Armies large and casualties high, High intrigue within the armies, and Both sides liked and broke agreements.

In verse 28, we have the booty from the crusades that led to many relics and artifacts being taken from Western Europe.

In verse 29 the "Former:" = The first conflict between Islam and Christianity including Islamic conquest and Crusades (Dan. 11:25-28; cf. Rev 9, first woe) Current or "appointed time": The second conflict between Islam and Christianity. This time against the Islamic Ottoman Empire during the time of the Reformation (Dan. 11:29-39). Dan. 11:40-45 (cf. second woe of Rev. 9). The "Latter": = The future third and final conflict between Islam and Christianity (Dan. 11:40-45; possibly the third woe of Rev. 11:15-19 and 12:12)

In verse 30, we have the Islamic naval victories in the battle of Preveza in 1538 and Dierba in 1560 led to decades of Islamic naval control until Pope Pius V organized the Holy League, which temporarily stopped Islam in one of the largest Middle Ages naval battles. Pope Pius V also reasserted the liturgical Mass, Inquisition, and decrees of the Council of Trent.

In verse 31, the same theme as Daniel 8:11-13, the religious phase of the little horn, take place.

In verses 32-34, this represents the pre-Reformation and Reformation with many of the Reformers put to death and burned at the stake.

In verse 34 and 35, after it becomes after to be a Protestant, many joined from false motives, and verse 35 suggests that verses 36-39 will be a summary of the evils of the 1260-year rule of the Papacy and a description of the Counter-Reformation.

In verse 36 we have the Counter-Reformation and the stronger blasphemous statements of the author of the Papacy.

In verse 37 he speaks of celibacy, and in 38 the Pope as final authority.

In verse 39 the Papal practice of deciding who had the right to rule a country within the Holy Roman Empire is expressed.

In verse 40, the king of the north continues as the Papacy and allies, and the king of the south continues as Islam, as Dan 11:25-39. The time of the end begins after 1798, and the battle is after the healing of the deadly wound of Rev 13:3, because the Papacy is able to mount a massive counterattack. It could be said that the developments from 1798 (the end of the 1260 day/year prophecy) to the mid-1840s set up the time of the end. The military force comes from an alliance of the Papacy with Europe (Rev. 17:12) and the United States (Rev 13:11-17). After attacking the Papacy and/or its allies (NATO?), Islam is overwhelmed by the counterattack.

As we can see, it is unsafe, and unsound, to isolate Daniel 11 to single kings exclusively. If this were to be done, it would break Daniel 11 out of the grand prophetic time periods in Daniel 7, 8, and 9. Why would Daniel suddenly shift focus to isolated kings in the past when the grand theme is taking in the scope of history?

The Jesuits wish us to interpret these prophecies literally, because they know that to interpret these prophecies with spiritual lenses exposes their deceptions.

However, God wrote these prophecies in such a way to allow room for people, such as you Samie, to interpret them literalistically, and miss the spiritual blessing that is found in them.

I will pray that you will allow God to release you from this quagmire of deception for which you have inadvertently (or willfully) fallen.

Quote:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

In Daniel 11 when the saying do according to his will is mentioned it is introducing a new power.

Daniel 11:3 KJV

(3) And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

Daniel 11:16 KJV

(16) But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:36 KJV

(36) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

After almost a month of silence in this thread, but of course, it seems the viewing never ceased, finally, the silence is broken.

Thanks for breaking the silence, 12tribes.

May I ask whether you believe the king of v36 is the vile-person of v21? If not, can you explain why not, citing Biblical proof, if any?

I believe the king of v36 is the vile person of v21 because an unbiased reading of vv22 - 36 (KJV) reveals that:

1. The 'him' in v22 refers to this vile person.

2. The 'he' in vv23-25 can only refer to him (the 2nd 'he' in v25 is the king of the south).

3. He is still referred to as one of the kings in v27.

4. The 'he' in vv28-30 refers to this vile person.

5. Through his army, he is responsible for taking away the 'daily' and the subsequent setting up of the abomination of desolation spoken of in v31.

6. He corrupts a group of people in v32 and vv33-35 speaks of two different groups of people.

7. Then v36 comes and provides description similar to other portions of Scriptures (see 2 Thes 2:1-4; Rev 13:5-7), and his exploits continues up till v45.

As I mentioned before the term in Daniel 11 "Do according to his will" is introducing a new power. It is mentioned in 3 verses:-

Daniel 11:3 KJV (Greece)

(3) And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

Daniel 11:16 KJV (Rome)

(16) But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:36 KJV (France)

(36) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Verse 20 says this:-

Daniel 11:20

(20) Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

That is connected to Luke 2:1

Luke 2:1

(1) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Then verse 21 says that someone shall stand up in his estate or place a vile person and in Luke 3:1 has this:-

Luke 3:1

(1) Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

Tiberius Caesar is the vile person who stood up in the place of Caesar Augustus.

Then verse 35 has this:-

Daniel 11:35

(35) And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

It is talking about the time of the end then verse 36 is introducing a new power at that time

Daniel 11:36

(36) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

verse 37 says he shall not regard any god, while the Papacy may hold God in a false way it cannot be said that they do not regard any god but, it can be said of the French revolution which is also mentioned in Revelation 11 and is mentioned as coming up at the end of the 1260 days.

Revelation 11:7-8

(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Pharaoh said this to Moses:-

Exodus 5:2

(2) And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

[Samie]

Perhaps, Samie, we have not responded to you, because we do not find it expedient to echo your broken record.

Or is it because you ran out of biblical back up for your unbiblical position you tried to find shelter in what you called the SOP only to find yourself still in the midst of the storm because the SOP told you bluntly only Scriptures can shelter you?

Did you easily forget, brother? Just review the last posts before 12tribes broke the silence in this thread. Perhaps, your mind will be refreshed.

[Samie]

12tribes, I highlighted below your statement that collapsed your position:

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Then verse 21 says that someone shall stand up in his estate or place a vile person and in Luke 3:1 has this:-

Luke 3:1

(1) Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

Tiberius Caesar is the vile person who stood up in the place of Caesar Augustus.

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