Could you opine about www.adventistalternative.org?

[Windsor]

Dr. Barkhuizen did not claim anything new or that he had any "visions of the night". He joined the chorus who went before him to try and convince the GC to do away with things most Progressive SDA's no longer believe in, INCLUDING some in high places. .

So because some regressives want Adventists to go backwards in knowledge, the GC should oblige? "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." Hosea 6:4

[jasd]

>>Where else could they be spending that time except in Heaven for when Jesus comes the second time the saints will be meeting Him in the air (1 Thess.4:16,17)<<

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Umm, nowhere in these texts is found the suggestion that having met the Lord in the air - the saints are then heaven-bound.

>>and they will ascend with Him to the courts above and reign with Him for a thousand years as told in Revelation 20:6,7.<<

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Again, these texts have been invested with that which cannot be found therein. The locale for the 'thousand-years reign' is not forthcoming in these texts.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Have you easily forgotten our discussion in the thread Daniel 11? Your last stand there against my biblically based position was that it is not in accordance with the SOP.

No, the 2300-day prophecy (literal days, NOT years, biblically) in Dan 8 has not yet even started and is yet to be fulfilled in the future shortly before the 2nd Coming! This I can prove from the Bible and the Bible alone, as Sister White bids us all to do.

I've lost track of a lot of discussions due to lack of time, and many responses to threads of mine that I have yet to read. I have been traveling, and managing about 3 businesses at the same time.

Biblically, you cannot prove that the 2300 days are yet future.

...

Oh, Yes, I can, Lys. It is not difficult to prove from the Bible the 2300 days, NOT years, are still to be fulfilled in the future, using the words of the Savior Himself as key to open up the door of understanding.

The Lord had delineated that the setting up of the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, will trigger a rapid succession of events starting with the the Great Tribulation - the occurrence of which God will shorten or no one would remain alive - at the end of which unusual celestial phenomena will occur to be capped by the 2nd Coming (Matt 24:15-31). It follows that prophecies related with the abomination of desolation will find fulfillment shortly before the 2nd Coming.

Daniel recorded that the setting up of the abomination of desolation will be preceded by the taking away of the 'daily' (Dan 11:31; 12:11). And because the taking away of the 'daily' will occur within the period of fulfillment of the 2300 days (Dan 8:11-14), the 2300 days will find fulfillment shortly before the 2nd Coming, and therefore still future.

[skyblue888]

Of course the abomination of desolation in these last days is the setting up of the image of the beast by the enforcement of Sunday worship. But as far as time is concerned, we have been told, in no uncertain terms, that after 1844 there will never again be a message to the people of God that will be based on time. See 1 S.M.188.

sky

[Samie]

Of course the abomination of desolation in these last days is the setting up of the image of the beast by the enforcement of Sunday worship. But as far as time is concerned, we have been told, in no uncertain terms, that after 1844 there will never again be a message to the people of God that will be based on time. See 1 S.M.188.

sky

[Overaged]

Here is the quote sky:

Quote:

I was searching through my writings, before coming to this meeting, to see what I should take with me to Australia, and I found an envelope on which was written, "Testimony given in regard to time setting, June 21, 1851. Preserve carefully." I opened it, and this is what I found. It reads: {1SM 188.2}

"A copy of a vision the Lord gave Sister White, June 21, 1851, at Camden, N.Y. The Lord showed me that the message must go, and that it must not be hung on time; for time will never be a test again. I saw that some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time, that the third angel's message can stand on its own foundation, and that it needs not time to strengthen it, and that it will go with mighty power, and do its work, and will be cut short in righteousness. {1SM 188.3}

"I saw some were making everything bend to this next fall; that is, making their calculations, and disposing of their property in reference to that time. I saw that this was wrong for this reason: instead of going to God daily, and earnestly desiring to know their present duty, they looked ahead, and made their calculations as though they knew that the work would end this fall, without inquiring their duty of God daily.--E. G. White. {1SM 188.4}

[/quote']It's nice to know that Mrs White, unlike the adventist alternative cult, is in agreement with the Bible; for Jesus also said: "No man knoweth the hour..."

[Umfundize]

I could not find any reference in Adventist Alternative as to the setting of time! Perhaps you confuse the Manuscript with what EGW said when she AGREED with Miller on the time of the second coming and also said something about "food for worms", remember? You labeled a group of about 20k Progressive Adventists a CULT! They do NOT have their own Bible, like The Clear Word Bible, they do NOT have their own prophet of a "higher order" above the Bible prophets, they do NOT believe they are the real Jews and all other Christians are lost in Rome. And they believe in John 5:24 and 10:22,23 Seems like we CAN have the ASSURANCE of our salvation right away! If you have found ANYTHING in Adventist Alternative that does not agree with Scripture, please tell us. You will do better than 2500 SDA ministers, theologians and scholars!

[Lysimachus]

Notice that the following has been ignored by Samie:

Biblically, you cannot prove that the 2300 days are yet future. This is garbage. A careful, word-for-word, verse-by-verse exegetical study will not allow it. The 'Daily' Source Book (222 pages) breaks down the verses methodically, and shows how the 2300 days can only begin during the time of the Persian empire. The "mareh of the evening and morning" encompasses the entire "chazon", not a "part" of the "chazon", and when does the Chazon begin? With the Ram (Persia) standing on the bank of the River Ulai. This is not future my friend. Sorry.

Unanswered.

[Samie]

Notice that the following has been ignored by Samie:

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

Biblically, you cannot prove that the 2300 days are yet future. This is garbage. A careful, word-for-word, verse-by-verse exegetical study will not allow it. The 'Daily' Source Book (222 pages) breaks down the verses methodically, and shows how the 2300 days can only begin during the time of the Persian empire. The "mareh of the evening and morning" encompasses the entire "chazon", not a "part" of the "chazon", and when does the Chazon begin? With the Ram (Persia) standing on the bank of the River Ulai. This is not future my friend. Sorry.

Unanswered.

Absenteeism has caught up on you, brother. You missed my post that answered what you think was an unanswered post. Just some few posts back, post #557113. It's you who have nothing Biblical to say against that post, have you, Lys?

That post proved from Scriptures the 2300 days cannot be years. So nothing from Scriptures regarding your 'mareh' or 'chazon' of 2300 years, brother.

[skyblue888]

If the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 are not prophetic days meaning one day for a year beginning in 457 B.C. and ending on Oct.22,1844, the Advent Movement was not of God and we have been deceived.

Personally I firmly believe that the day/year principle is biblical and that without it the 2,300 day prophecy would make no sense at all. Not only that but when one studies the 70 week prophecy, the first part of the 2,300 day prophecy, adopting the day/year principle, every small detail of the prophecy falls into place until the year A.D.34 which coincides with the stoning of Stephen, ending probationary time for the Jewish nation, thus ending the 70 week (490 years) allotted to the Jews.

This shows that the day/year principle is unimpeachable.

sky

[Samie]

If the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 are not prophetic days meaning one day for a year beginning in 457 B.C. and ending on Oct.22,1844, the Advent Movement was not of God and we have been deceived.

[skyblue888]

In the fall of A.D.27 Jesus was anointed in the Jordan River. This marked the beginning of the last prophetic week of the 70 week prophecy. Just as it says in the chapter where this prophecy is found, Jesus was cut off (put to death) in the middle of that prophetic week, three and a half years later, in A.D.31.

Between 27 and 31 are three and a half literal years during which He ministered. After the crucifixion are three and a half literal years at the end of which, in A.D.34, Stephen was stoned to death which marked the end of that last prophetic week thus accounting for 490 literal years (70 prophetic weeks) from the starting point in 457 B.C.

As you can see, I am not kidding, brother.

sky

[Samie]

In the fall of A.D.27 Jesus was anointed in the Jordan River. This marked the beginning of the last prophetic week of the 70 week prophecy. Just as it says in the chapter where this prophecy is found, Jesus was cut off (put to death) in the middle of that prophetic week, three and a half years later, in A.D.31.

Between 27 and 31 are three and a half literal years during which He ministered. After the crucifixion are three and a half literal years at the end of which, in A.D.34, Stephen was stoned to death which marked the end of that last prophetic week thus accounting for 490 literal years (70 prophetic weeks) from the starting point in 457 B.C.

As you can see, I am not kidding, brother.

sky

Are you not? So, are you serious with your error?

Who told you Christ was baptized in the fall of AD 27? Look again. The Bible says Christ was baptized in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius. History tells us Tiberius reign started in 14 BC. So when is the 15th year? 27 BC? That's why I said you must be kidding.

[Samie]

erratum: 14BC is 14AD; 27BC is 27AD. Sorry, my mistake.

[skyblue888]

Who told me? The very Word of God from that 70 week prophecy starting in 457 B.C.

sky

[Umfundize]

Interesting to note that , according to prophecy, Jesus would also be CRUCIFIED "in the middle of the week". That , of course, would mean a Wednesday crucifixion! Many SDA's (members as well as scholars) believe in a Wednesday crucifixion Matt 12:40 Did Jesus mean what He said? 3 days of 12 hours PLUS 3 nights of 12 hours? According to Jewish custom a person HAD TO BE dead for at least 3 days and 3 nights to be officially regarded DEAD! That's why Jesus only arrived at the tomb of Lazarus on the 4th day. To give credibility to a REAL miracle. Accordingly, Jesus died late Wednesday afternoon (preparation day of Passover Sabbath) and rose at twilight Sabbath afternoon. That makes the case AGAINST a Sunday-resurrection so much STRONGER. The Catholic translators tried everything possible to create a Sunday morning resurrection. Will not work! What say you?

[skyblue888]

We've already dealt with this issue before.

sky

[skyblue888]

It is amazing the efforts that are being made to unsettle our faith in the Advent Movement.

sky

[Umfundize]

So, AFTER the passing of EGW, we should not expect ANY NEW LIGHT? Because we already HAVE all the light? That is what the Jehovah's and Mormons also believe. Are we afraid to TEST ANY DOCTRINE by the BIBLE? And are we willing to make any adjustments IF we discover we made a mistake? Like the PIONEERS had done so many times?

[Samie]

Who told me? The very Word of God from that 70 week prophecy starting in 457 B.C.

sky

Ohhh... Well you could have taken the word of another for the infallible Word of God, that's why what you now have are errors you can not reconcile with the real Word of God.

So far,

1. You were made to believe the beautification of the temple = the restoration of Jerusalem

2. You were made to believe the 15th year of Tiberius' reign that started in 14 AD was in 27 AD.

Irreconcilable indeed, but you just close your eyes and insist what you were taught were true. Remember, belief in a lie does not make the lie truth.

[skyblue888]

So, AFTER the passing of EGW, we should not expect ANY NEW LIGHT? Because we already HAVE all the light? That is what the Jehovah's and Mormons also believe. Are we afraid to TEST ANY DOCTRINE by the BIBLE? And are we willing to make any adjustments IF we discover we made a mistake? Like the PIONEERS had done so many times?

Again, no offense, but, if I may ask, Are you and Samie familiar with topix.com? I think you both would have a better chance there to share your "new light."

New light from the Lord does not do away with the old. It builds on it.

sky

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Umfundize

So, AFTER the passing of EGW, we should not expect ANY NEW LIGHT? Because we already HAVE all the light? That is what the Jehovah's and Mormons also believe. Are we afraid to TEST ANY DOCTRINE by the BIBLE? And are we willing to make any adjustments IF we discover we made a mistake? Like the PIONEERS had done so many times?

Again, no offense, but, if I may ask, Are you and Samie familiar with topix.com? I think you both would have a better chance there to share your "new light."

New light from the Lord does not do away with the old. It builds on it.

sky

Thanks, sky, for the advice. I just share Truth with whomsoever the Holy Spirit allows me to come in contact with.

Yes, it's true, that "New light from the Lord does not do away with the old. It builds on it", as you very well observed. The question is what you think was "old light" was NEVER a light in the first place. And "new light" must not be be built on what was erroneously perceived as "old light".

[Overaged]

New light from the Lord does not do away with the old. It builds on it.

sky

If John and Andrew had possessed the unbelieving spirit of the priests and rulers, they would not have been found as learners at the feet of Jesus. They would have come to Him as critics, to judge His words. Many thus close the door to the most precious opportunities. But not so did these first disciples. They had responded to the Holy Spirit's call in the preaching of John the Baptist. Now they recognized the voice of the heavenly Teacher. To them the words of Jesus were full of freshness and truth and beauty. A divine illumination was shed upon the teaching of the Old Testament Scriptures. The many-sided themes of truth stood out in new light. {DA 139.2}

[Windsor]

>>Where else could they be spending that time except in Heaven for when Jesus comes the second time the saints will be meeting Him in the air (1 Thess.4:16,17)<<

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Umm, nowhere in these texts is found the suggestion that having met the Lord in the air - the saints are then heaven-bound.

Actually it suggests exactly that. Sure makes a lot more sense than God giving us a pogo stick to hop up in the clouds only to immediately fall back down. That's nonsense.

"In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

Notice that Jesus states He is going to His Father's house to prepare us a place. And then He states He is coming back from that place to take us to where He is, His Father's house, not here on Earth. He isn't coming back to take us to where we already are. To me, there is no clearer text in scripture as to where the 1000 years will take place.

[Umfundize]

This thread deals with the concepts postulated in Adventist Alternative. You will notice in the Manuscript a chapter "No One Goes To Heaven". You may want to look at the exegesis of John 14:1-3. And a special insight into the Millennium.