I'm told by adventist 31 AD Friday Crucifixion. Is this correct?

[Samie]

It's interesting to see those who consistently preach false doctrine now arguing among themselves as to what is truth while each one remains in his own special darkness.

I'll go make some popcorn...

What is even more interesting is he who claims he has true doctrine but could not show Scriptures for his claim. And of course, instead of spending time looking for verses that don't exist, why not go and make popcorn instead?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

After 3 days & 3 nights, He rose from the grave, early Saturday morning, as Mark 16:9 Greek Scriptures specify that Jesus resurrected on "proi prote sabbatou" or "early morning of the chief sabbath".

quote: Kindly give us the location of this 'quote' in the Scriptures?!

Kindly but urgent, please!

:unquote

That is not a post of mine and I do not believe it is found in the Scripture. Perhaps this might be the one you had in mind.

"44 It was now about [p]the sixth hour, and darkness [q]fell over the whole land until [r]the ninth hour, 45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn [t]in two. 46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.....

....this man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid Him in a tomb cut into the rock, where no one had ever lain. It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes.

And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment. "Luke 23:44-46,52-56 NASB

" But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing; and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has [a]risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.” And they remembered His words, and returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the eleven and to all the rest."Luke 24:1-9 NASB

God cares!/Jesus saves!

[Samie]

In this post, this phrase is wrong: Full Moon in April 31 AD occurred on Tuesday, April 24, 4 days before the weekly Sabbath.

It should read: Full Moon in April 31 AD occurred on Wednesday, April 25, 3 days before the weekly Sabbath.

My apologies.

[Samie]

The Full Moon Phenomenon Disproves a Friday Crucifixion in April 31 AD:

One of the justifications forwarded by proponents of a Friday Crucifixion, is the belief that the phrase "for that sabbath day was an high day" (John 19:31), means Passover coincided with the weekly sabbath. Is this belief factually accurate? It better be because if not, the inevitable conclusion would be: Friday crucifixion in April 31 AD is a myth.

We will now test whether this belief is factual based on two incontrovertible Biblical facts:

1. That Passover is a full moon feast; and

2. Christ ate Passover on a full moon night, a day ahead of the Jewish national celebration of Passover.

For the weekly Sabbath to coincide with Passover based on the 2 Biblical facts above, the eating of Passover by the Jews must fall on Friday night. And because Christ ate Passover a day ahead of the Jews, His eating of Passover must necessarily be on Thursday night which must be a full moon.

But did full moon occur on Thursday night in April 31 AD?

Sadly, in April 31 AD, full moon occurred Wednesday night, and therefore the weekly Sabbath could not have coincided with Passover and Friday crucifixion in April 31 AD is a myth.

In Christ,

Samie

[Gibs]

For one, the seventieth week was the week of AD 27 through AD 33, so the midst of the week would be AD 30, not 31, AD 34 was the Jubilee yr. and a new beginning as Jubilees are, the Gospel went to and began with the Gentiles. You cannot shift this off the Jubilee calendar, it cannot be done! Understand the Jubilee calendar and you can rightly unravel this question.

Now since some of the Jews used the Babylonian method of starting the month by sighting the first visible crescent. The problem with it is this, when the moon is rising in the western sky the first sliver cannot be seen in the light of the setting sun, so it has to be calculated to be accurate and this is what Jesus and His with Him did.

OK, you start the month two days late and your Nissan 15 will be two days late, this one Jesus and His celebrated Nissan 15, Passover two days before.

Mark 16:9 stands solid,

Mr 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Mr 16:9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

In answer to: #677605 - Today

To believe other than this puts God in the position of allowing His Word to be confusing in the last days of earth's history, just at the most important time for reliance on the Word to enable new believers as well as those established, for yielding to that which the Holy Spirit knows to be necessary for preparation to joyfully meet their returning King.

Highly unlikely if one is to believe God is making every effort to aid all persons that will submit to His leading, as clear as possible except for those who already have chosen, without repentance, to walk without His intervention on their behalf.

God cares!/Jesus saves!

[Samie]

The Full Moon Phenomenon Disproves a Friday Crucifixion in April 30 AD:

Most Protestants believe that Christ was crucified in April 30 AD. Is it possible that Christ could have been crucified in April 30 AD?

We will now test whether this belief is factual based on two incontrovertible Biblical facts:

1. Christ ate Passover on a full moon night, a day ahead of the Jewish national celebration of Passover.

2. He must have spent 3 Passovers during His earthly ministry after His baptism. (see John 2:13; 6:4; 11:55)

If it passes the 2 Tests above, the belief is true, otherwise, it is a myth.

For Christ to have been crucified Friday in April 30 AD, His eating of Passover must fall on Thursday night. But did full moon occur on Thursday night in April 30 AD? The answer is Yes. Full moon occurred April 6, 30 AD. Test #1, Passed.

But how about Test #2?

If Jesus' last Passover was in April 5, 30 AD, then, that must necessarily be the 3rd Passover in His earthly ministry after His baptism. It is therefore necessary to ascertain the year of His baptism and see whether He has attended 3 Passovers, the last being the Passover in 30 AD.

Luke records that Jesus was baptized on the 15th year of Tiberius’ reign as Emperor (see Luke 3:1, 21). History has it that Tiberius started his reign 14 AD. His 15th year therefore is 28 AD. There is then no escaping that in consonance with Scripture specification, Christ was baptized in 28 AD, the 15th year of Tiberius’ reign. But do Scriptures tell us He attended that Passover in 28 AD, the year He was baptized, according to Scriptures?

After His baptism, Christ's first miracle done at Cana came a few days before a Passover feast (see John 2:11-13), the very first Passover He attended after His baptism. Was this Passover held in 28 AD, the year He was baptized?

Note the sequence of events: baptism, wedding at Cana, first Passover attended.

Jesus, after His baptism, spent 40 days and 40 nights fasting (Matt 4:1, 2; Luke 4:1, 2). It therefore follows that more than a month had passed after His baptism before He attended the wedding in Cana. The wedding occurred before the first Passover He attended. Passover is in the first month, on the 14th day of the month. The wedding in Cana occurred more than 40 days earlier. Even if the wedding coincided with the Passover, still His baptism would fall the year before.

Since His baptism was in 28 AD, the first Passover He attended was in 29 AD. And the Passover in 30 AD is but the 2nd Passover. Test #2, Failed.

Therefore, the belief that Christ was crucified Friday, in April 30 AD is a myth.

In Christ,

Samie

[ClubV12]

Samie, you must realize Ellen White does not agree with you. Which makes me wonder, why do you bother to quote her so much when clearly you don't accept her gift as a divine messenger?

[Gibs]

Well, Gerhard, glad we agree a little and so on here to Samie,

Samie Had 31 AD been the middle year of that 70. week Christ's age and the beginning of this 70'th would only just happened a yr later and the number of Passovers would remain the same. And so your thesis is not even worth a hill of beans!

If you knew anything about the Jubilee calendar that this prophecy of the 490 yrs. or 70 weeks or 10 Jubilees your tune would come closer to ringing true blue.

The Jubilee calendar is anchored so solidly it cannot be moved up a yr or two or a Jubilee up in time or back in time.

457 BC the decree was given to start the 70 wks of yrs and His Word or His Prophecy does not fail any plus or minuses.

The 70 wks allotted the Jews ended the yr 33 AD and a new Jubilee cycle began 34 AD, a Jubilee and the gospel a brand new beginning to the Gentiles.

Samie, I'm dropping this conversation with you as I may as well be telling it to a stump.

None of your stuff has any basis and any scripture you post is not of the context at hand.

Goodbye,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Just a note to any who would like to peruse the correct rendering of the Jubilee calendar, here it is as it has to be, there is a Jubilee in scripture that proves this rendering correct,

http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Calendar_Synopsis.htm

Actually all day for a yr. prophecy is given on this, one of God's time clock calendars, the Jubilee Calendar from all eternity past and will run into all eternity future.

The first year of earth was a Jubilee yr. and the first seventh solar day of it the Holy Sabbath in sync with Heaven as it was in Heaven long before earth, recurring for all eternity future also!

May you be blessed of wisdom and understanding from the fountain and foundation of all truth wisdom and understanding.

Who alone is our God and Father of all!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[tigerwillow]

Quote:

“From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks”—namely, sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years. The decree of Artaxerxes went into effect in the autumn of 457 B.C. From this date, 483 years extend to the autumn of A.D. 27.* At that time this prophecy was fulfilled. The word “Messiah” signifies “the Anointed One.” In the autumn of A.D. 27 Christ was baptized by John and received the anointing of the Spirit. The apostle Peter testifies that “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.” Acts 10:38. And the Saviour Himself declared: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.” Luke 4:18. After His baptism He went into Galilee, “preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled.” Mark 1:14, 15. {CIHS 56.2}

“And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.” The “week” here brought to view is the last one of the seventy; it is the last seven years of the period allotted especially to the Jews. During this time, extending from A.D. 27 to A.D. 34, Christ, at first in person and afterward by His disciples, extended the gospel invitation especially to the Jews. As the apostles went forth with the good tidings of the kingdom, the Saviour’s direction was: “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 10:5, 6. {CIHS 57.1}

“In the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” In A.D. 31, three and a half years after His baptism, our Lord was crucified. With the great sacrifice offered upon Calvary, ended that system of offerings which for four thousand years had pointed forward to the Lamb of God. Type had met antitype, and all the sacrifices and oblations of the ceremonial system were there to cease. {CIHS 57.2}

While this quote from Ellen White does not talk about the day of the week Jesus died, it is very specific about the year. Since Jesus was baptized in the fall of 27 AD, three and a half years later would be in the spring of 31 AD.

[Gibs]

Yes, His ministry began 27 AD and ran through to the spring of 34 AD. His death in the very end of 30 AD at the breaking point into 31 AD and if you peruse the Jubilee calendar link I gave you, you can see how it is.

http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/Calendar_Synopsis.htm

30 AD however being the mid yr. of His ministry.

The Jewish calendar ended the yr. in the fall but with God a new yr. begins with the spring equinox.

There is one assumption G. Moore makes that works but too hard to understand and that is this, counting down from 457 BC 490 years is easiest this way, 457 BC through 1 BC is 457 yrs. and then just start your count back up with 1 AD through 33 AD and viola, 490 yrs! 457+33 =490.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

correction is on you Jackson, 457 is your 1'st yr., 456 is yr two not yr 1 in counting down. Even a partial yr is inclusive.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I think the decree was made in the fall but no matter, look at the count of Christ in the earth in death. That is another that most can't get in the heads.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[tigerwillow]

I browsed through the Jubilee Calendar that you linked to and found the attached picture on the big blue chart at the bottom of the page.

I am not sure what the 30 in the bottom left corner of the last and biggest box at the bottom with the "4015" title refers to. If it does indeed refer to the year, than the chart contradicts itself and it is much easier to believe Ellen's White's very straightforward comment about Jesus dying in the spring of 31 AD.

I see what you mean by saying

Quote:

His death in the very end of 30 AD at the breaking point into 31 AD

because as I understand things, springtime seems to be the transition between ending an old year and beginning a new one. So maybe we are on the same page, just a few days off.

[tigerwillow]

Jackson,

I believe you are correct about 1844 and skipping the year zero to get that date because it only makes sense that the great disappointment and the beginning of the cleansing of the sanctuary would happen at the same time. Even more fascinatingly it seems to correlate with Jesus' baptism since the Great Disappointment was in October and Jesus' baptism was in the fall of 27 AD, according to Ellen White.

[ClubV12]

The 1,335 year segment of the 2,300 year prophecy DID end in 1843.

This is one of the factors that caused Miller confusion over the correct ending date for the 2,300. Which, with a little from his friends, was correctly established as October 22, 1844.

There seems to be two generally accepted methods of dealing with the "year zero" problem. One is subtracting a year because the theory is there was no year zero, or something like that.

The other is doing the calculation as a half year at the beginning and a half year at the end. Which makes more sense to me.

One thing is clear, the bible uses a 30 day month when it counts time. No leap years, no funny business. Find a start date, add it up at 30 days a month.

[Gibs]

Inclusive counting is used and so 457 BC is our first or number 1 yr.

Format here has gone wacky and makes reading posts difficult.

Blessings,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[tigerwillow]

Gibs,

Quote:

If it does indeed refer to the year, than the chart contradicts itself

After I thought about it for awhile, the chart is not as contradictory as it is confusing and potentially misleading.

I see now that the 30 most likely represents counting years in a continuum where year zero has to be included just like on a number line from math class, and 31 counts years in reality where year zero does not exist. So any time we determine the number of years from BC to AD, we have to add an additional year to make up for the missing year zero.

[ClubV12]

Formatting went whacky when Tigerwillow posted the EXTREME oversize graphic!

[tigerwillow]

Sorry everyone about the huge graphic. I am still learning how to post pictures to this forum. I deleted the huge graphic. Much easier to follow this thread now! I was getting tired of the messed up screen too, and everyone who was going to look at it probably already has by now anyway.

Cheers!

[Gibs]

No folks it is simpler than most of you are seeing,

You simply count down through 1 BC and continue with 1 AD, as a zero yr. there is none,

BC simply ends with 1 BC and we can only continue on with 1 AD and so 1 BC and 1 AD add

to two yrs. and is truly and actually two yrs. no problem.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because

greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Don't you all see, a zero yr. is zilch, nothing, no yr. or anything worthless!

Can't be used, forget it!

[ClubV12]

508 plus 1,335= 1843 THAT tripped up Father Miller! It may be that God intended this particular aspect of the prophecy specifically to "trip up" Miller so he would begin preaching and raise awarness before the most significant event, 1844, came to pass. We DO know, "God held His hand over some of the figures" so Miller and others could NOT figure it out until the fullness of time, as God reckoned it should be, had come.

The significance of the 1,335 was not well understood by the pioneers. But it's role becomes more clear when properly understood as it relates to end time events. Not yet revealed during Millers lifetime. There is a blessing for those who "wait for it". What IS that blessing? The seven last plagues, the 144,000, the special resurrection are a few events it relates to. When properly understood in relation to these events it is a beautiful thing. It is not a critical number, not pertinent to the overall prophecy, but it fits nicely when it's relationships are understood.

As to the 2,520 of Leviticus, this also left the pioneers scratching their heads. It wasn't long before they completely abandoned it as meaningless, worthless of consideration. Yet, some still try to figure it out, assign some meaning to it, place it in the future, use it to set dates for this or that, tie it to various politcal events (like Obama or whatever). Your beating a dead horse, James White and others figured it out over a 100 years ago. Let it go, it's a waste of time and a distraction.

The 1,335 is fascinating, but don't let it distract you from the more important aspects of the prophecy.

457 for a begin date, no doubt about it.

[Samie]

Did the 2300 days and 70 weeks start in 457 BC? Let's test it with Scriptures. If it passes the test, it's true, otherwise, it's a myth.

Here's the specification:

Quote:

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times

The Bible specifies a commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. [to restore from the Hebrew "shub", which means to return, to turn back; to build from the Hebrew "banah", which means to build, to establish]

Here's the supposed fulfillment:

Quote:

Ezra 7:27 Blessed be the LORD God of our fathers, which hath put such a thing as this in the king's heart, to beautify the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem:

Unfortunately, the commandment issued in 457 BC by the Achaemenid ruler Artaxerxes Longimanus was to beautify the temple in Jerusalem. [to beautify from the Hebrew "pa'ar" which means to adorn, to beautify]

Specification: "to restore and to build Jerusalem"

Supposed fulfillment: "to beautify the temple in Jerusalem"

And it failed the test. Therefore, the position that 2300 days and 70 weeks started in 457 BC is a myth.

In Christ,

Samie

[Samie]

Was Christ baptized in 27 AD? Let's test it with Scriptures. If it passes the test, it's true. Otherwise, it's a myth.

The Bible specifies Christ was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius' reign as emperor.

Quote:

KJV Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, ... 21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized

The first year of Tiberius reign was 14 AD. The fifteenth year of course, is 28 AD.

The belief that Christ was baptized in 27 AD fails the test. Therefore, it is a myth.

In Christ,

Samie