Luther on the Antichrist

[Robert]

Law

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will by them live."

"the doers of the law shall be justified"

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will by them live."

Same idea with all these: Obey & live, disobey & die.

These are Old Covenant demands!

The terms of the “old covenant” were, Obey and live: “If a man do, he shall even live in them” (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but “cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.” Deut. 27:26.

[Robert]

Faith does establish the law in that it is faith that works.

[Gibs]

The True Gospel Robert will prevail, and I will leave you as you are adamant to be saved as you want.

I see you do admit the law condemns the sin and will the sinner.

You only term what you don't want to see as "legalistic garbage" There is other garbage too Robert.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Your only hope is the righteousness of Christ....Will are never good enough otherwise. Who are you kidding?

[Robert]

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

"The law of liberty" is not the Ten Commandments. The law, says Paul, is "a yoke of bondage". He calls it "the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone".

What then is "the law of liberty"?

The best place to clearly see this in 2 Cor chapter 3:

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

You see the OC is "obey & live, disobey & die". If you accept Christ you are then delivered from under the law. Only in Christ is the veil of legalism and condemnation removed!

15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts (they were blinded to the gospel through their legalistic mindset).

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away (their eyes are opened). 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

The law of liberty is God's Spirit. If you reject Christ you are rejecting God's Spirit and that will bring judgment against you.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully (context - reject "the Spirit of grace") after we have received the knowledge of the truth (salvation in Christ), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law (the OC) dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified (set apart) a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[Gibs]

Robert, He has given me His Robe of righteousnes a long time ago and to date I have not relinquished it. He dwells within me and is my strength and stay and impervious covering. I walk and talk continually with the best friend I ever had. It is a pleasure!

I never did or ever will kidd around on the matter of Salvation and the true Gospel of the Kingdom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Robert, He has given me His Robe of righteousnes a long time ago and to date I have not relinquished it.

Well, that's good. Now can you improve on His robe of righteousness?

Answer: No!

Can you experience His righteousness?

Answer: Yes, you will..."some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred." However, this does not contribute to your standing in Christ. You are already perfect in Him.

[Gibs]

None can of course improve on His righteousness and that is not a goal. The continuing walk is the goal, in love to Him and doing His will in love to Him.

He walks with me and talks to me along this lifes weary way and will never forsake me. Since He in me is greater than Satan, he cannot wrest me away.

Our only danger is letting go of Him until we get Home. Many have backsliden and fallen back in the old wallow because of not deep enough consecration and stern resolve.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Many have backsliden and fallen back in the old wallow because of not deep enough consecration and stern resolve.

Sounds like you are the only one?

Romans 11:2 ...do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works;

[Gibs]

For sure it isn't our works that save us. Although true faith and true love has works but they are not to attain salvation but done from love and the desire to please Him and do His will.

We become one in Him and He in us and His love has become ours and so the walk to please Him is now our natural way.

By His Grace He made it so we could be with Him instead of against Him, one with Him.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

For sure it isn't our works that save us.

That's because of the gospel. I sure would like to get back to the subject, but I have a feeling as soon as I do I'll be sidetracked by the "works camp".

[Robert]

Here's the gospel in a nutshell:

Perfection through our own good works we can never attain. The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager, and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God’s Word. In amazement he hears the message, “Ye are complete in Him.” Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God.

[BobRyan]

Here is Paul explaining how the Gospel affects the saints vs the lost in Romans 2 -

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[BobRyan]

Here it is shortened for those who do not wish to read as much text.

Romans 2

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

...

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[Robert]

Here's the gospel in a nutshell:

Perfection through our own good works we can never attain. The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager, and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God’s Word. In amazement he hears the message, “Ye are complete in Him.” Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God.

Notice please, according to Ellen White, your "most costly sacrifice" is "meager" compared to Christ's agape love. He gave up heaven for you, not for three days, but for eternity. That's agape love. You can't come close to that! Therefore, you are falling short of God's agape love. Under law you must die! So please don't dare blaspheme God's name by insisting you can be justified by your law keeping. Heresy I tell you...heresy!!!!

[Gibs]

The level of perfection He expects of us Robert we are not to define. He does that with each individual of which His Spirit dwells in. How, that when we sin His Spirit within convicts of it and we repent. With resolve to fall into it no more of course, So it is a growing in sanctification toward the goal of pleasing Him whom we love foremost and best of all.

Abide with Him and He will with you and we reach the perfection He desires us too in this cesspool of sin we are surrounded with.

There is not one here that I am aware of trying to be justified by the works of the law. All the sins we have committed are not undone that way. It is only through Jesus Christ alone can any sin be justified. It takes repentance and a broken heart over the trangressions we have done, true sorrow, true resolve, the death of that old man and born again in Him. He is made Master in our heart and self is made dead.

Our goal then is to walk with Him then all the way Home, The Eternal Kingdom of our God and Saviour.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Well, again, we are off topic.

Quote:

So, back to the question of all questions, "how can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? Because no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one.

According to the Apostle Paul "all have sinned and fall short of" God's agape love. Therefore the law of God places all mankind in death row (prison - see Gal 3:23) awaiting execution (the 2nd death). That's our predicament "under law".

In fact Paul says, "the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives" (Romans 7:1). In other words the moment you die the law is satisfied. At that moment you are no longer under the law.

So how does God maintain integrity to His law that justly condemns the sinner and at the same time justify the sinner?

Does He, as some Christians teach, do away with the law? No! God never did away with His law. It is the measuring stick of righteousness. Go to Matt 5:17-18

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law ...I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them....until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

So "no" - Christ didn't do away with the law. Then what does that mean for fallen mankind? It means that the human race is guilty under law and that humanity must be exterminated from God's creation in order to preserve peace and harmony.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law (under it's authority), that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world (the human race) may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh (fallen human) will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known....

This is the gospel! The righteousness of God, apart from our law performance, has been made known.

So how did God deliver us from under the authority of the law without doing away with the law?

The answer is the gospel! Get to know it....

[intermission time]

[Robert]

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known....

This is the gospel! The righteousness of God, apart from our law performance, has been made known.

So how did God deliver us from under the authority of the law without doing away with the law?

The answer is the gospel!

I'll use principles from Romans 7:1-6 to explain the gospel. I need to keep it simple. Later we can dig deeper.

"The law has authority over a man only as long as he lives" (NIV)

"The law is binding on a person only during that person's lifetime" (NRS)

"The law has dominion over a man as long as he lives" (NKJV)

So clearly God's law has absolute authority over a person as long as he is living. When a person dies the law is finished with that person. He is no longer under the law's dominion!

You see the law wants one thing from the sinner - death - that is, the 2nd death. Goodbye to life forever. The law wants to rid the universe of sin (and rightly so).

So you follow me so far?

[Gibs]

I find we need at least 3 verses out of Galations to get the full picture,

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Ga 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

"Righteousness Within" How?

"Righteousness within is testified to by righteousness without. He who is righteous within is not hard-hearted and unsympathetic, but day by day he grows into the image of Christ, going on from strength to strength. He who is being sanctified by the truth will be self-controlled, and will follow in the footsteps of Christ until grace is lost in glory. The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.--Review and Herald, June 4, 1895. {MYP 35.2}

We are in the fitting up trying time in the here and now.

"You can never enter heaven unless you enjoy the communion of God here below, for this is our fitting-up place for heaven. God should be the object of the soul's highest reverence, love, and fear. This world is the only school in which you can receive a preparation for the higher grade. Those who do not love to retain God in their thoughts in this world, those who consider it irksome to be in subjection to God in this life, will never have enjoyment with Christ in the future life. The very things they choose and love here in self-pleasing are educating their tastes so that heavenly discipline will be a restraint. Let your soul be brought under discipline to God. . . . {HP 161.3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

Amen, brother Gibs!!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known....

This is the gospel! The righteousness of God, apart from our law performance, has been made known.

So how did God deliver us from under the authority of the law without doing away with the law?

The answer is the gospel!

I'll use principles from Romans 7:1-6 to explain the gospel. I need to keep it simple. Later we can dig deeper.

"The law has authority over a man only as long as he lives" (NIV)

"The law is binding on a person only during that person's lifetime" (NRS)

"The law has dominion over a man as long as he lives" (NKJV)

So clearly God's law has absolute authority over a person as long as he is living. When a person dies the law is finished with that person. He is no longer under the law's dominion!

You see the law wants one thing from the sinner - death - that is, the 2nd death. Goodbye to life forever. The law wants to rid the universe of sin (and rightly so).

So you follow me so far?

Remember, I want to keep it simple. So simple a child could understand the basics.

So we have a problem. The law has placed the human race in death row - that is in prison - awaiting execution day.

Here's Paul:

Gal 3:22 ...the Scripture declares that the whole world (the human race) is a prisoner of sin (we are sinners)...23 Before Jesus came (and legally rescued us), we were held prisoners by the law....

Now what? How does God save sinners and at the same time satisfy His law that justly condemns sinners?

Here's the next principle:

Romans 7:4 you also died to the law (it demanded your death) through (or in) the body (humanity) of Christ. (NIV)

Rom 6:6 says the same thing:

"our old self (our fallen life) was crucified with him so that the body of sin (our humanity under the curse) might be done away with"

So you see that "in Christ" God placed "us" (our fallen humanity) into Christ. So when Christ, as the Son of Man, died we died in Him.

Go to 2 Cor 5:14 "One died for all, and therefore all died."

God, at the incarnation, mysteriously combined our fallen humanity with Christ's Deity. This humanity belongs to all of us. We all share one humanity - the fallen life of Adam. So Christ took into Himself our fallen, corporate humanity. By corporate I mean a shared humanity. Even Eve came from Adam's side.

That humanity died "in Christ Jesus".

Therefore, "in Christ" our old life from Adam that all of us share, died in Him. Thus the law has been legally and ethical satisfied.

Don't believe me?

Romans 7:6 "But now, by dying to what once bound us (the law), we have been released from the law...."

No longer can the law demand your death because "in Christ" your humanity from Adam died the 2nd death. The law can't touch you! No longer can it demand death for disobedience. No longer can it say, "obey and live - disobey and die"! Why? You are dead and dead man can't sin.

Now later Paul will take this truth to present sanctification (i.e., consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God), but that's not the subject here.

So please stay to the topic or I'll beg any moderator to come and make sure we remain on topic.

Now I said I wanted to keep it simple and I've got a little deep in some places.

So for the children here's the simple version:

1] The law demands your death!

2] So God, through the Jesus, placed your life into Christ.

3] When Christ died you died.

4] Hence the law is satisfied with you because you died in Christ. You have been delivered from under the demands of the law.

[Robert]

The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.--Review and Herald, June 4, 1895. {MYP 35.2}

Please stay to topic!!!

Moderators, help....We have abusers here....Please ask them to stay to topic!

[Robert]

1] The law demands your death!

2] So God, through the Jesus, placed your life into Christ.

3] When Christ died you died.

4] Hence the law is satisfied with you because you died in Christ. You have been delivered from under the demands of the law.

This is the everlasting gospel. This is the gospel that we are to take to the world.

Matt 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

The human race needs to be delivered from under law. They have been, "in Christ". However, since God's agape love does not coerce or force, this truth needs to accepted by faith, individually, to make it effective in each and every life.

Once accepted the believer goes from condemnation to life. He goes from under the curse of the law to under grace.

Those who reject the gospel will remain under the law's authority. They will be kept in prison until the judgment. Then they will have to suffer the second death, which is goodbye to life forever.

[Robert]

So you see that "in Christ" God placed "us" (our fallen humanity) into Christ. So when Christ, as the Son of Man, died we died in Him.

"By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself."

You see Roman states that God actually makes you righteous by going out of Himself into you. Thus He actually infuses you with righteousness so you are positively just before His law.

Hence Roman teaches "another gospel" - the gospel of self-righteousness. They actually believe that they are just before God's law because God actually came into them and infused them with righteousness and therefore they are no longer sinful in the sight of God. This is not too far from how some SDA think.

But that's not the gospel. The gospel is not what Christ does in you (which is always incomplete due to human interaction). The gospel is what Christ did in you 2000 years ago. This is your ticket to heaven. This is the foundation and the assurance of your faith.

If not then you must depend on what God does in you to save you. The problem is God will not work in you if you do not accept that "in Christ" you are complete and can do nothing to add to that perfect righteousness.

For those who reject this all they can produce is a pretend righteousness or self-righteousness. Such works will be condemned in the judgment because they are proof that one has rejected the gospel.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Robert

So you see that "in Christ" God placed "us" (our fallen humanity) into Christ. So when Christ, as the Son of Man, died we died in Him.

"By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself."

How about the unrepentant then? Yes Christ died for ALL and those unrepentant too, but they are not accepting. Some are not accepting from wanting to enter in another way from the door He has made. His WAY and He is the door to the sheepfold. Many unrepenting ones believe, but to just believe is like works to obtain the goal.

Jesus did not keep the commandments from the works angle either, He did it as we must from our love to God. That law of love was He Himself exemplified by love who is Love.

He had the Faith that works by love. He was one of us and the Father in Him, we have the same equivalent with Christ in us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.