Luther on the Antichrist

[Robert]

if the Gospel you wrote above is THE Gospel (it is BTW) why are not all men saved?

You mean ultimately saved as entering into heaven?

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Nobody has said anything at all at all about adding to..

That post was to Gibs. Are you his lawyer? Let him answer.

Robert, you got to know without asking such a question the answer!

NO OF COURSE NOT! Nor have I or any that I have seen has implied such a thing. RLH is right! NOBODY HAS!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I have found the TRUE gospel is salvation and saved from committing sin on and on.

That's nice, but it's heresy.

The true gospel is how Christ answered the law. It is the birth, life, death and resurrection and NOTHING ELSE!

What can you add to His perfection, Gibs???? Huh? What!!!!???

You said nothing....Then let's stay with what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago. That's complete and that's what saves. It's the gospel. Now, can you stay with the subject or not?

[BobRyan]

I have found the TRUE gospel is salvation and saved from committing sin on and on.

Are you continuing in sin? If you are alarm bells are ringing and the Holy Spirit is ringing them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

indeed in Romans 6 Paul argues that if you claim to be enslaved to sinning - you are not saved at all.

In 1John 2:1 "I write these things to you that you sin not". That is quite a statement from John.

In 1Cor 10 Paul says "NO temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man and God IS FAITHFUL who will not ALLOW you to be tempted beyond that which YOU are able but will with the temptation provide a way of escape".

The Gospel provides not only freedom from the PENALTY of sin - it is also freedom from the SLAVERY TO sinning.

1John 2:3-4 says that the one who SAYS that he knows and loves Christ and yet does NOT walk as Christ walked - does not KEEP His Commandments - is not being accurate in his claims.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

The Gospel provides not only freedom from the PENALTY of sin - it is also freedom from the SLAVERY TO sinning.

[Robert]

In 1John 2:1 "I write these things to you that you sin not". That is quite a statement from John.....The Gospel provides not only freedom from the PENALTY of sin - it is also freedom from the SLAVERY TO sinning.

[Gibs]

Yes siree, The True Gospel sets the prisoners in Satan's prison house Free!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Yes siree, The True Gospel sets the prisoners in Satan's prison house Free!

Gibs...stay to the topic.

Can the moderator do anything with these men who keep trying to highjack this subject?

Here's the subject:

When we call the Pope the Antichrist and his minions an evil brood, we do not slander them. We merely judge them by the touchstone of God's Word recorded in the first chapter of this Epistle: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." [Chapter 6, pp. 237-251]

The Antichrist perverted the gospel. How? That should be the discussion. Hence we need to know the gospel to see how he distorted it.

[Gibs]

You say Robert, "the antichrist perverted the gospel", well I agree with that, but I feel you do too! You have a version of the Gospel that is strange to us. You yell off topic and we only stay in opposition to what you post. You see we do not and cannot see your view of this.

Make a post of a subject you want aired and we will come back to you on it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

Roman teaches that Mary's Mother womb was preserved from iniquity. Hence Mary was born pure and holy like Eve before the fall. Therefore the humanity she passed to Christ was like Adam's before the fall.

[Gibs]

I think you meant "Roman Catholicism teaches" above, if so yes they hold to "immaculate" conception.

But Robert I do think your question is answered down a little from Galations 3:10,

Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

And,

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God is not under any yoke of any law, He is the law Himself, this was His priviledge. Neither was Christ before Bethlehem as Yahweh of Hosts, the Father is Yahweh King of Israel.

Then when He came in the man Jesus Christ as one of us He became subject to God's law as one of us. He obeyed that law perfectly we all know and praises be to His Wonderful Name for it was a tremendous battle. How can we not love Him with all our hearts and soul as He did it all for us?

Perchance you have a better answer, let us hear or read it here.

Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

Roman (Catholicism) teaches that Mary's Mother womb was preserved from iniquity. Hence Mary was born pure and holy like Eve before the fall. Therefore the humanity she passed to Christ was like Adam's before the fall.

Indeed they teach that -- but it only defers the question back one generation. If they can't accept that Christ could be born of a mother with a sinful nature - and so have to make Mary sinless and having a sinless nature -- then they have the same problem with Mary's "immaculate conception" by her own mother having two parents both with sinful natures.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

"The Pope is the Antichrist, because he is against Christ, because he takes liberties with the things of God, because he lords it over the temple of God." [Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians (1535)by Martin Luther, Chapter 3, pp. 106-135]

"The moment I open my mouth the Pope begins to fume and to rage. It seems we must choose between Christ and the Pope. Let the Pope perish." [Chapter 4, pp. 172-193]

"You would never know the devil could be so gentle, the world so sweet, the Pope so gracious, and the princes so charming. But because we seek the advantage and honor of Christ, they persecute us all around." [Chapter 5, pp. 194-216]

When we call the Pope the Antichrist and his minions an evil brood, we do not slander them. We merely judge them by the touchstone of God's Word recorded in the first chapter of this Epistle: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." [Chapter 6, pp. 237-251]

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Robert

So Christ came to save us from the curse of the law. How did He do it? The answer is the gospel!

Now I'm going to turn it over to all the folks on CA. Here's a question (and it's very, very important):

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

I'll tell you what the Roman Church teaches (and some SDA): That God actually makes you Holy and therefore you are accepted before God's law. That, is not the gospel, that's legalism...that's heresy by "the man of sin". So please, keep your answer specifically to the question in red. No off topic grace vs works.

Well first of all - that statement misses some key details.

But secondly that is precisely where the first page comments for this thread give rise to all the other topics being mentioned on this thread.

[Robert]

I do think your question is answered down a little from Galations 3:10,

Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree...

How did He become a curse? Keep in mind that the law requires the death of the sinner, not a sinless man.

[Robert]

Thus when Paul says "It is not the hearers of the LAW that ARE Just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be justified ... we are in fact talking about what is and what is NOT "another gospel".

That's not the gospel...and it's not even the fruits of the gospel. Paul is speaking of the Old Covenant. He does this in at least two other places:

Romans 10:5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will by them live."

Gal 3:12 The law is not based on faith (it's based on performance); on the contrary, "The man who does these things will by them live."

So Paul, in all three cases, is writing about the demands of the law, which are, "obey & live" - "disobey & die".

Here's Ellen White:

The terms of the “old covenant” were, Obey and live: “If a man do, he shall even live in them” (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but “cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.” Deut. 27:26. [RH 10-17-1907]

[Gibs]

I guess I like a little more of the EGW quote,

"The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34. {PP 372.1}

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ. His blood atones for our sins. His obedience is accepted for us. Then the heart renewed by the Holy Spirit will bring forth "the fruits of the Spirit." Through the grace of Christ we shall live in obedience to the law of God written upon our hearts. Having the Spirit of Christ, we shall walk even as He walked. Through the prophet He declared of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And when among men He said, "The Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." John 8:29. {PP 372.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

I guess I like a little more of the EGW quote,

"The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26.

The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.

Yes, that's nice, Gibs, but I wasn't discussing the NC. Those statements by Paul in Romans and Galatians are discussing the OC. Keep to the subject.

[Gibs]

That's the reason I posted further into what Sister White was explaining. You only put in the part you want to be brought to light. You seem to think some are under the old covenant and none are.

Under the new the law is now in the heart of the obedient and that is very true. It is like you don't want to realize that.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

You seem to think some are under the old covenant and none are.

No, what you present is OC.

[BobRyan]

Thus when Paul says "It is not the hearers of the LAW that ARE Just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be justified ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge the secrets of all mankind" Romans 2:13-16 we are in fact talking about what is and what is NOT "another gospel".

That's not the gospel...and it's not even the fruits of the gospel.

[Gibs]

Yes Bob, Romans 2:13-16 nails it solid without any doubt, I can not see how any could but agree with such a direct scripture.

Thanks,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Your argument with the text above - is more than a little obvious to the reader.

[Robert]

Thus when Paul says "It is not the hearers of the LAW that ARE Just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL be justified ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge the secrets of all mankind" Romans 2:13-16

Well, you've sidetracked me off the gospel - just as you wanted:

Romans 2:13-16 (in context)

11 For there is no partiality with God.

How so?

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law,

The Gentiles didn't have the law, but through nature they knew of God and either rejected or received Him. (See Romans chapter 1)

and as many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law 13

To be under law is the opposite of being under grace. Under law you must obey or die, period. The law doesn't forgive transgression, it demands perfection and death for imperfection. And then Paul makes his point by stating:

for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified

In other words "under law" you must justify yourself by your performance.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

God will judge if individuals are resting in Christ or in their own works. Those who are resting in Christ will be declared perfect in Him according to the gospel of Paul!

[Robert]

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!