Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!
Gibs Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 And the question to be settled was How could God be just and true to His law and yet justify the sinner? This could be done only by the sacrifice of the Son of God. . . . {CTr 216.3} 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 And the question to be settled was How could God be just and true to His law and yet justify the sinner? This could be done only by the sacrifice of the Son of God. . . . {CTr 216.3} This didn't answer the question. BTW, the Son of God wasn't sacrificed. "Deity did not sink and die" (Ellen White)
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!
Gibs Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Deity did not have to sink and die. Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Guest Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Off topic?? You haven't said anything about Luther, OR the Antichrist since page 2. The only time you say off topic is when somebody posts a scripture that doesn't fit with your idea of the gospel. Those scriptures aren't allowed! lol
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Off topic?? You haven't said anything about Luther, OR the Antichrist since page 2. The only time you say off topic is when somebody posts a scripture that doesn't fit with your idea of the gospel. Those scriptures aren't allowed! lol
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 No, you are off topic. "Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God’s word, and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative, and seek to avoid discussion. The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what. I have been shown that many who profess to have a knowledge of present truth, know not what they believe. They do not understand the evidences of their faith. They have no just appreciation of the work for the present time. When the time of trial shall come, there are men now preaching to others, who will find, upon examining the positions they hold, that there are many things for which they can give no satisfactory reason. Until thus tested, they knew not their great ignorance. And there are many in the church who take it for granted that they understand what they believe, but, until controversy arises, they do not know their own weakness. When separated from those of like faith, and compelled to stand singly and alone to explain their belief, they will be surprised to see how confused are their ideas of what they had accepted as truth." [Gospel Workers 1915, Page 298]
Guest Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 But speaking of Martin Luther, he had this to say, which shoots down your misconception of the gospel. So it couldn't be more on topic. Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so certain of God's favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God's grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they're smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do. Martin Luther ______________________ Faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. Martin Luther
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 But speaking of Martin Luther, he had this to say, which shoots down your misconception of the gospel.... The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity. Please stay to the topic or excuse yourself. Please don't highjack this topic onto another works trip. Why? For one your law works aren't good enough to merit you salvation. So,
Guest Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 What you're really saying is: "I only want to talk about what I believe, unopposed. Without any of those pesky scriptures that give me problems proving it". The problem is, that your topic, if you want it to be about the gospel, REQUIRES discussion of the very things you say you don't want to discuss. Maybe you should just pick a different topic.
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 What you're really saying is..... How did Rome pollute the gospel? Namely, why did they introduce the immaculate conception? In a nutshell, to pervert the gospel. Christ's birth, life, death & resurrection is the gospel. You have nothing to contribute to what He did in our corporate humanity or did I miss something?
Gibs Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Death of self and repentance and to love Him first and best of all is our contribution. Without love you cannot please Him. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
BobRyan Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted By: Gibs And the question to be settled was How could God be just and true to His law and yet justify the sinner? This could be done only by the sacrifice of the Son of God. . . . {CTr 216.3} This didn't answer the question. BTW, the Son of God wasn't sacrificed. "Deity did not sink and die" (Ellen White) Romans 3:25 speaks about His "Atoning sacrifice" that was made "in his blood". 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— The same is true in 1John 2:2 - He is the "Atoning sacrifice for our SINS and not four OUR sins only but for the sins of the whole world" John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 Death of self and repentance and to love Him first and best of all is our contribution. Without love you cannot please Him. That's not the gospel. What you are presenting is in addition to the gospel. It's of Roman and it is "I plus Christ". It's subtle legalism. The gospel is "not I, but Christ". Nothing you do can add to Christ's perfect work (the gospel). If you disagree perhaps you would do well to make the Pope your friend because you are in harmony with each other.
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 That's right Gibs. No, that's wrong. I'm beginning to think you do not know the gospel.
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 Romans 3:25 speaks about His "Atoning sacrifice" that was made "in his blood". That doesn't answer the question. You just don't know...admit it!
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 The apostle Paul defines this gospel as “the righteousness of God” [Romans 1:16-17; 3:21]. By this he meant that the gospel is a righteousness initiated and planned by God before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4; Revelation 13:8], promised by God since the fall [Genesis 3:15], and fulfilled by God in Christ’s holy history [John 3:16-17; Galatians 4:4-5]. In other words, it is a righteousness entirely of God’s doing and without any human contribution whatsoever [Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16]. In this gospel, God has obtained salvation full and complete for all humanity, so that in Christ mankind stands perfect and complete before God and His holy law [Colossians 2:10; Romans 10:4].
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 That is the gospel according to Robert. I like the Biblical version and that of the SOP. Why because it makes sense, common sense. You may have it that way Robert for you, you are free to choose and so are we. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 That is the gospel according to Robert. My gospel is according to the Apostle Paul. Your gospel is more in line with Roman. Roman's gospel is I plus Christ. Paul's gospel is not I, but Christ. Roman's gospel is Christ's work is incomplete and therefore I must do something (good works) to be complete. Paul's gospel is that "in Christ Jesus" I am complete now and in the judgment.
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Re 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Then notice Robert after the three angels give out this everlasting Gospel what is said, Re 14:12, Also it is noteworthy to note the 144,000 are brought to view in verse RE 14:3, so it is probable they have something to do with the proclamation. Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Is Sister White not right then, the gospel and the law are entwined. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
BobRyan Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: Gibs And the question to be settled was How could God be just and true to His law and yet justify the sinner? This could be done only by the sacrifice of the Son of God. . . . {CTr 216.3} This didn't answer the question. BTW, the Son of God wasn't sacrificed. "Deity did not sink and die" (Ellen White) John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 Is Sister White not right then, the gospel and the law are entwined. I don't know her intention, but I can guess yours....It's "I + Christ". That's Roman Catholicism.
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