Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 The Bible is clear that YOUR humanity (the one we received from Adam) died in the body of Christ. That's found in Romans 7:4. Paul also tells us that our old life from Adam was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:6) And again, Paul tells us that when Christ, as the son of man, died "all" died in Him. Don't stop there. Read your bible some more. See if you can find out why you are still being tempted, if it's such a done deal. And no, the bible doesn't teach that everybody has already been saved.
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH Are you cutting and pasting from Jack Seroquell again, but just not giving him credit? I'm giving you Paul. And Jack's last name is Sequeira. Maybe you should improve your spelling techniques? You shouldn't try to pass his words off as yours. (JS) Not that his are any more valuable.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Where did you come from, RHL? Please don't tell me your mother. Go back further. Who are you original parents? I'll help you: You came from Adam. Even Eve was taken from Adam's side. Did Adam sin after or before he had children? Answer: After. Therefore his children were born with his humanity that is bent to self. That's why David could say, "Behold, I was shapen (developed) in iniquity (our bent to self), And in sin (iniquity) my mother conceived me." David was born a sinful, not by disobedience, but because Adam past to David a humanity indwelt with iniquity. We are born to a lost race....We stand condemned "in Adam" because all us (the human race) shares his humanity! So you don't only stand condemned because you have a sin nature, but you also stand guilty because you have sinned. No matter how you do the math you are in death row because of your association to Adam. Ellen White: -BC- FW -TI- Faith and Works -CN- 11 -CT- Obedience and Sanctification -PR- 03 -PG- 88 We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt (condemnation) and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression. Since God created all humanity out of Adam (Acts 17:26), then it goes without saying that all humanity was in Adam when he sinned, and therefore the whole human race was implicated or participated in that act of disobedience (it must be noted that all of Adam’s children were born after he had sinned). Hence, the condemnation of death that came to Adam was passed on to all mankind. In dealing with this truth, may I warn the reader that we must not go beyond Scripture and teach that in Adam all humanity also inherits his guilt. That is the heresy of original sin introduced by Augustine and adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. Guilt, when used in a legal sense, always includes volition or responsibility and God does not hold us responsible for something in which we had no choice.
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Hey, you can debate pretty good when you only quote yourself!
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Hey, you can debate pretty good when you only quote yourself! You aren't interested in truth...you are interested in fundamentalism, in legalism in anything that lifts up your self-importance & pride. In a nutshell you are being led of the devil in trying to sidetrack this issue into any discussion but the gospel of Christ. Stay to the subject or go away....Gibs couldn't stay to the subject either. Why? You don't know the gospel....All you know is legalism.
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Did Adam sin after or before he had children? Answer: After. Wrong again. Re-read Gen 2 & 3.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Did Adam sin after or before he had children? Answer: After. Wrong again. Very good.... At least you are reading. Yes, Adam sinned before he had children. Therefore the only humanity he could pass to you (through procreation) was a humanity in slavery to sin and a humanity indwelt with his bent to self (iniquity). That humanity (Adam's humanity) belongs to all of us. We are bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Hence we all share one humanity - the fallen life of Adam.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 That humanity (Adam's humanity) belongs to all of us. We are bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Hence we all share one humanity - the fallen life of Adam. Christ as the Son of God, took our shared humanity (our corporate humanity) into Himself and by His doing and dying legally answered all the demands of the law including justice. "By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption...." [Ellen White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7, Page 927]
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I'm going to go and hear a good sermon now, I think. Need to hear some truth now, after spending quality time with you.. Happy Sabbath all :)
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 I've given you truth....Please consider it.
Gibs Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH So if you still have temptation, then you still have your humanity. I am a child of Adam. I have his fallen nature...his fallen humanity. I was born bent to self. I cannot take my humanity to heaven, but "in Christ" I am sitting in the heavenly places. In Christ I have a glorified humanity that He obtained by His doing and dying. Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus Notice, 1] Christ saved me when I was His enemy. He saved me when I was living fully for the flesh (my bent to self). 2] I have a glorified humanity in Christ in the heaven itself. I receive this life at the 2nd coming. He is the last Adam (the 2nd Adam) There isn't one soul that needed to be lost. It is the fault of the lost one that he would not come to Christ and REPENT that he is lost. Some won't repent Robert. It is more than believe in the heart, that heart must be broken and a new heart in it's place. He will do that for you, but you must die of the old, be born again, a new creature in and for Him and of Him. "Repentance is associated with faith and is urged in the gospel as essential to salvation. Paul preached repentance. He said, "I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:20, 21). There is no salvation without repentance. No impenitent sinner can believe with his heart unto righteousness, Repentance is described by Paul as a godly sorrow for sin that "worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of" (2 Corinthians 7:10). This repentance has in it nothing of the nature of merit, but it prepares the heart for the acceptance of Christ as the only Saviour, the only hope of the lost sinner. {FW 99.2} He don't take a steam roller and crush the [censored] out of one, that is your part of the program to die of self, repent or no new man that will not be given a glorified humanity in the first resurrection but come up in the second with the old you went down with! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 That humanity (Adam's humanity) belongs to all of us. We are bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Hence we all share one humanity - the fallen life of Adam. Now, the minute Christ as God took upon Himself our humanity indwelt by sin the Holy Spirit took over our "bent-to-self". So Christ from the start was born of the Spirit. His mind wasn't born in slavery to our human nature. But because Christ as the son of man associated Himself with our humanity after the fall He came under condemnation. Not for breaking the law (transgression) but for sharing in our fallen humanity.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 It is more than believe in the heart, that heart must be broken and a new heart in it's place. He will do that for you, but you must die of the old, be born again, a new creature in and for Him and of Him. You keep sidetracking from the gospel of Christ in order to pervert the gospel, which is another gospel. This is of the devil. Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you (Gibs, you are one of them), and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.
Gibs Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Robert, The Gospel is a call to repentance, all must repent. "The “honest and good heart” of which the parable speaks, is not a heart without sin; for the gospel is to be preached to the lost. Christ said, “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Mark 2:17. He has an honest heart who yields to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. He confesses his guilt, and feels his need of the mercy and love of God. He has a sincere desire to know the truth, that he may obey it. The good heart is a believing heart, one that has faith in the word of God. Without faith it is impossible to receive the word. “He that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.” Hebrews 11:6. 44 {CSA 24.5} 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Robert, The Gospel is a call to repentance, all must repent. Before you can be called to repent you must know the gospel. Gib's, you are really getting on my nerves. You keep sidetracking the conversation to anything but the gospel. Discuss the gospel! Can you do it? Probably not, but I hope you can.
Gibs Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Robert, you must go back and read the quote I posted above, the gospel being described by Sister White. Now on the Gospel of Peace, "They began to realize the nature and extent of their work, to see that they were to proclaim to the world the truths entrusted to them. The events of Christ’s life, His death and resurrection, the prophecies pointing to these events, the mysteries of the plan of salvation, the power of Jesus for the remission of sins—to all these things they had been witnesses, and they were to make them known to the world. They were to proclaim the gospel of peace and salvation through repentance and the power of the Saviour. 70 {CSA 44.6} The Gospel takes in a broad spectrum and requires some study. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 You would have to have at least a little insight into the real gospel according to scripture, and not man, before you could understand what Gibs is talking about. Actually, he's more on topic than you are Robert.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 Robert, you must go back and read the quote I posted above, the gospel being described by Sister White. I don't care what Ellen White states. I care what Paul states. He was hand picked by both Jesus and the Father to expound the gospel. STOP stalling. Either you know it or you don't! Which is it, Gibs? Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 1 Cor 15:1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 You would have to have at least a little insight into the real gospel .... Stop stalling....I am giving you the gospel - the one that answers the law. You see the Roman Catholic gospel doesn't answer the law, so the believer must answer the law. That's salvation by works. Hence, all false gospels lead to legalism or salvation by works. You and Gibs might be SDA, but in theology you are in Babylon. You will gladly do Roman's biding when the anti-christ appears because your theologies are the same - salvation by works. I don't care if you say we aren't saved by works because you'll turn right around and state that we are. You and Gibs are a contradiction in action. You are like the Judizers of old.
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 When we call the Pope the Antichrist and his minions an evil brood, we do not slander them. We merely judge them by the touchstone of God's Word recorded in the first chapter of this Epistle: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." [Chapter 6, pp. 237-251] If the pope and his merry band of legalists are to be opposed, then all who preach a false gospel are to be opposed equally. Hence, there are many anti-christs. As Paul says, "let him be accursed" (abandoned by God)
Gibs Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I have found the TRUE gospel is salvation and saved from committing sin on and on. Are you continuing in sin? If you are alarm bells are ringing and the Holy Spirit is ringing them. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 13, 2012 Author Posted October 13, 2012 I have found the TRUE gospel is salvation and saved from committing sin on and on. That's nice, but it's heresy. The true gospel is how Christ answered the law. It is the birth, life, death and resurrection and NOTHING ELSE! What can you add to His perfection, Gibs???? Huh? What!!!!???
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 What can you add to His perfection, Gibs???? Huh? What!!!!??? There you go beating that straw man again. I told you before, he's down already. No use making a mess with all that straw. Nobody has said anything at all at all about adding to.. It's just a diversion on your part, since your case cannot be supported with scripture.
earl40 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 The true gospel is how Christ answered the law. It is the birth, life, death and resurrection and NOTHING ELSE! So if the Gospel you wrote above is THE Gospel (it is BTW) why are not all men saved?
Robert Posted October 14, 2012 Author Posted October 14, 2012 Nobody has said anything at all at all about adding to.. That post was to Gibs. Are you his lawyer? Let him answer.
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