Guest Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 The gospel is about what Christ did in our corporate humanity 2000 years ago and nothing else. Simply put, that is a false gospel. The gospel was preached to Abraham. {Gal 3:8} And Abraham received it by his obedience to God. {Gen 22:18} Which is the only way to tell if anyone has received it.
Guest Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 John 7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water. Do you think that your old lifestyle, or mine, is a river of living water? Of course not. That's why we have to become willing to let God change us.
Guest Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so certain of God's favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God's grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they're smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do. {Martin Luther}
Gibs Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 RLH, Thanks for that post, didn't really know Luther was so well versed, wonderful passage! No wonder Sister White spoke of him so highly! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 I wonder, do you love the law? Like I said...you push the law and beat it over our heads. Again, off topic. This proves you do no understand the gospel!
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert The gospel is about what Christ did in our corporate humanity 2000 years ago and nothing else. Simply put, that is a false gospel. The gospel was preached to Abraham. {Gal 3:8} And Abraham received it by his obedience to God. {Gen 22:18} Which is the only way to tell if anyone has received it. This comes from hell....This is the doctrine of devils. It's a false gospel and those who teach such will be cursed of God. That means God will abandon you to your own self-righteousness.... Gal 4:5 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. That means you are lost....
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 When we call the Pope the Antichrist and his minions an evil brood, we do not slander them. We merely judge them by the touchstone of God's Word recorded in the first chapter of this Epistle: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." [Chapter 6, pp. 237-251] How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Gal 1:7 And would pervert the gospel of Christ. To paraphrase this sentence: "These false apostles do not merely trouble you, they abolish Christ's Gospel. They act as if they were the only true Gospel-preachers. For all that they muddle Law and Gospel. As a result they pervert the Gospel. Either Christ must live and the Law perish, or the Law remains and Christ must perish; Christ and the Law cannot dwell side by side in the conscience. It is either grace or law. To muddle the two is to eliminate the Gospel of Christ entirely." It seems a small matter to mingle the Law and Gospel, faith and works, but it creates more mischief than man's brain can conceive. To mix Law and Gospel not only clouds the knowledge of grace, it cuts out Christ altogether. The words of Paul, "and would pervert the gospel of Christ," also indicate how arrogant these false apostles were. They were shameless boasters. Paul simply had to exalt his own ministry and Gospel. [Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians (1535) by Martin Luther]
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 So Galatians 3:8 and Genesis 22:18 came from Hell? This is news. I've noticed that you don't become belligerent like this until somebody shows you a text that totally refutes your so called gospel. Then since there is nothing you can show from scripture to counter it, you get mad and tell us we're from hell, or going to hell. Or both. Gen 22:18 And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice. Why does the very thought of obeying God make you foam at the mouth Robert? You should seriously ask yourself that question. Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Gibs Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Gibs I wonder, do you love the law? Like I said...you push the law and beat it over our heads. Again, off topic. This proves you do no understand the gospel! When you bring up the gospel you bring up the law for sure. No I don't push the law but I do love the law as it is in my heart and love to do it's standards. Robert for sure I do not understand the Gospel as you do and not many do and will I feel sure. The wonderful good news of His Grace, "There is perfect harmony between the law of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. "I and My Father are one," says the great Teacher. The gospel is the good news of grace, or favour, by which man may be released from the condemnation of sin, and enabled to render acceptable obedience to the law. The gospel points to the moral code as a rule of life. That law, by its demands for undeviating obedience, is continually pointing the sinner to the gospel for pardon and peace. {BEcho, April 16, 1894 par. 7} Says the great apostle, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the law." And again he declares that the "law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Enjoining supreme love to God, and equal love to our fellow-men, it is indispensable alike to human happiness and the glory of God. {BEcho, April 16, 1894 par. 8} 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 To mix Law and Gospel not only clouds the knowledge of grace, it cuts out Christ altogether. Luther disagrees with you, as I've shown above. Ellen White disagrees with you. And most importantly, the scriptures disagree with you. Yet you quote from all these sources, the parts that you like. If they are from hell, then the parts you like are not inspired either. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they're smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do. {Martin Luther}
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Rom 6:16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 So Galatians 3:8 and Genesis 22:18 came from Hell? No, your gospel comes from hell. You can't add anything to Christ's perfect redemption. You, like Roman, try to synthesize the gospel and works. You cannot. Any attempt to do so is of Babylon.
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Robert for sure I do not understand the Gospel as you do and not many do .... The gospel, received by faith, is what saves. Better get to know it....
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 ...unto all them that obey him... or of obedience unto righteousness.
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert To mix Law and Gospel not only clouds the knowledge of grace, it cuts out Christ altogether. Luther disagrees with you,... That was Luther's quote, not mine.
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 The gospel is the good news of grace, or favour, by which man may be released from the condemnation of sin, and enabled to render acceptable obedience to the law. Ellen White is wrong! The gospel is the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Son of Man and the Son of God. Nothing extra. I am complete in Christ. Ellen White is not the last word. She isn't our pope. She said to go to the Bible. She never claimed infallibility. She only claimed to have a glimmer of the light that was to come after her death. Use Paul...then you have the full light.
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Adventists are polarized into various groups, concerning the gospel, historically we [Adventists] belong to the Arminian camp. As a result, most, if not all, Adventists have been raised up to believe that Christ did not actually save anyone on the cross, but simply made provision for the salvation of all mankind; that unless we take the initiative and believe, repent (i.e., turn away from sin), and confess all our sins, we stand as lost or condemned sinners before God. In practice this concept of the gospel has done two things to our people. Since we are still struggling with the sin problem, no matter how hard we try, many Adventists question whether their repentance has been genuine. This, in turn, has robbed our people of the assurance of salvation. Hence, most Adventists are very insecure about their salvation. Value Genesis confirmed this fact, when the majority of our youth admitted they had no assurance of salvation because their conduct was not meeting God’s high standard. Added to this problem is the fact that every time one sins one becomes unjustified, until confession of that sin has been made. This has added to the problem of having no assurance of salvation. Because of this twofold problem, we have produced a people who are experiencing no joy of salvation and who are trying to live the Christian life, either out of fear of the judgment, or a desire to make it to heaven. But the greatest tragedy of all is that this Arminian mind-set has become a real stumbling block to many Adventists. When they hear the true good news of the gospel, to them it sounds like heresy, or it is too good to be true. [js]
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Ellen White is wrong! Are you sure? Is Heb 5:9 wrong? Is Rom 6:16 wrong? How do you explain away those verses? Get some rest Robert. You'll need it so you can fight against God's law another day. (tomorrow) Jude 1:24 Now unto him who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Robert Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Ellen White is wrong! Are you sure? Yes! Please tell me what you can add to what Christ did in His birth, life, death & resurrection? I would like to know how you can add to His perfect work. I'm all ears. Ellen White: Only the covering which Christ Himself has provided can make us meet to appear in God's presence. This covering, the robe of His own righteousness, Christ will put upon every repenting, believing soul. "I counsel thee," He says, "to buy of Me . . . white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear." Rev. 3:18. This robe, woven in the loom of heaven, has in it not one thread of human devising. Christ in His humanity wrought out a perfect character, and this character He offers to impart to us. "All our righteousness are as filthy rags." Isa. 64:6. Everything that we of ourselves can do is defiled by sin. But the Son of God "was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin." Sin is defined to be "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:5,4.
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Ellen White is wrong! So Ellen White is wrong, but now here you are quoting her as proof of something. That's a strange logic Robert. If she's wrong about salvation, then that means she wasn't a prophet, and shouldn't be referred to for proof of anything.
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Ellen White: Only the covering which Christ Himself has provided can make us meet to appear in God's presence. This covering, the robe of His own righteousness, Christ will put upon every repenting, believing soul. "I counsel thee," He says, "to buy of Me . . . white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear." Rev. 3:18. This robe, woven in the loom of heaven, has in it not one thread of human devising. Christ in His humanity wrought out a perfect character, and this character He offers to impart to us. "All our righteousness are as filthy rags." Isa. 64:6. Everything that we of ourselves can do is defiled by sin. But the Son of God "was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin." Sin is defined to be "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:5,4. This is absolutely correct. Because not one shred of your works can save you. But without the fruits, the world can plainly see that you are a phony when you proclaim that you are "saved", or that God has done something for you. So both sets of statements are correct, but you cannot see that, because your gospel is lopsided. The gospel of man. "I'm saved in my sin, and God doesn't expect me to want to change." The world is looking at you, to see if God is real. they don't put any stock in what you say. They want to see proof.
Gibs Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Sister White brings out that to obtain The Robe of Christ's righteousness requires surrender. "Paul pleaded with those who had once known in their lives the power of God, to return to their first love of gospel truth. With unanswerable arguments he set before them their privilege of becoming free men and women in Christ, through whose atoning grace all who make full surrender are clothed with the robe of His righteousness. He took the position that every soul who would be saved must have a genuine, personal experience in the things of God. {AA 388.2} Each one will have a close struggle to overcome sin in his own heart. This is at times a very painful and discouraging work; because, as we see the deformities in our character, we keep looking at them, when we should look to Jesus and put on the robe of his righteousness. Every one who enters the pearly gates of the city of God will enter there as a conqueror, and his greatest conquest will have been over self. {HS 138.1} “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.” {HS 138.2} Number one thing is self must be done under, killed that a new man not of self be raised with Him Within as The Master, and now covered with His Robe, pure White Robe. As workers together for God, brethren and sisters, lean heavily upon the arm of the Mighty One. Labor for unity, labor for love, and you may become a power in the world. Thursday morning, Sept. 24. {HS 138.3} 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Mat 7:19 Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. Eph 5:8-11 For you were once darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Gal 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, self-control: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. What do you believe these texts mean Robert?
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