Luther on the Antichrist

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

I'll give you some clues from the Apostle Paul. First, let's look at his authority:

Gal 1:11 Paul, an apostle--sent not with a human commission nor by human authority, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead....

You see God's law will not allow the sinless (Christ) to die for the sins of the sinner. The sinner must die!!! The question is did your humanity die in Christ as the son of man? Yes!

2 Cor 5:14 "One died for all, then all died". Christ's death was a corporate death.

Go to Romans 6:6 "our old self (our life from Adam) was crucified with him"

Now Romans 7:4 "you also died to the law through the body of Christ"

Therefore you can say, "I have been crucified with Christ" (Gal 2:20)

Who died? You died in Christ. Now the law is satisfied because YOUR humanity died in Him.

[Robert]

You have a do nothing theology and it is not the right answer.

I'm not writing about works....That's your obsession because you don't know the gospel and therefore your ultimate hope is in your performance.

[Guest]

Works will not save you...

[Robert]

Works will not save you...

No, but the gospel will and then, and only then, as you are resting in Christ's finished work, can you begin to experience Christ in you. But only if you are resting in His perfect & complete work of redemption.

[Robert]

Now the law is satisfied because YOUR humanity died in Him.

Now this leads to the question "how did I die in Christ before I was born?"

[Guest]

Works will not save you...

But if you say, I can keep right on sinning and doing what I always have. And no need for me to change, or let God change me, because He has done it all so that I can keep sinning.

Then you are only deceiving your self, and don't have a grasp on the part that WILL save you. Which is a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ. John 17:3

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What does it profit, my brethren, though a man says he has faith, and has not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled; yet you give them not those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit?

Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.

But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

See how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:14-22

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Like Gibs said, you can't just pick and choose the parts of scripture you like. You have to take the whole gospel. Not just one leg of it, and then skew it into something different.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Now the law is satisfied because YOUR humanity died in Him.

Now this leads to the question "how did I die in Christ before I was born?"

Ps 139:13 For you (i.e., God) created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

At creation God set in motion procreation. Hence you were knit in your mother's womb. However, you came from "the depths of the earth". What does that imply?

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God made man (Adam) from the dust of the earth, breathing into him the breath of life: and man became a living soul.

So God created you, not when you were woven in your mother's womb, but when He created Adam from the earth.

Acts 17:26 From one man (Adam) He (God) made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth....

All of us, male and female, came from Adam. Eve came from Adam. Our humanity came from Adam!

[Robert]

[Guest]

Ok

[Robert]

Ok

Thanks....I mean we talk about works on almost all the posts. Let's keep this one to the gospel, only.

[Gibs]

The true saved from commiting sin gospel or the lying gospel saved in sin? If it isn't saved in continuing in sin you call it works.

Well Robert I won't sing that gospel message with you. Some may but it is a dire thing to teach such.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith:

Faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives

new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us

completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits,

our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with

it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this

faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't

stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone

asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without

ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an

unbeliever. Martin Luther

[Guest]

"The moment I open my mouth the Pope begins to fume and to rage. It seems we must choose between Christ and the Pope. Let the Pope perish." [Martin Luther]

We seem to be cut from the same cloth in this regard. I hate for somebody to interrupt while I'm trying to tell them something.

:)

[Robert]

[Robert]

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments....

Gibs, if you can't stay to subject I would rather you move on and post somewhere else. You beat folks over the head with the law...I'm trying to speak of the gospel, but since you don't understand it you keep bring up the law. Stop it!

[Guest]

In Gibs defence, I think he understands the gospel very well. But I understand you want to talk about Luther and the gospel.

Did you see what Luther said about the gospel, above? Works are very much a part of it. You cannot separate the two. That would be a lopsided gospel. No offence to you personally Robert.

[Guest]

Here, I'll post it again for your reading pleasure. That way you don't have to go back to page 9 to read it:

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith:

Faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives

new birth from God. (John 1:13). It kills the Old Adam and makes us

completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits,

our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with

it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this

faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't

stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone

asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without

ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an

unbeliever. Martin Luther

[Gibs]

Robert, For heavens sake man I am not off topic as one cannot separate the law and the gospel. That is the basis for the Gospel, I preach a far different Gospel than you do is all.

Bro. Robert, you brand me as not knowing the gospel. What gospel Robert? The one you expound is yours and not Biblical. You expound a gospel one can be saved in sin. Not true by a long shot. You seem to forget or haven’t come to realize it but Jesus and the Fathers’ plan was to give to each the same power as His Redeemer had that we too could do as He did. You surely realize Satan would have yelled fowl play till the heavens echoed forever if He had taken more power than He gives to man. In actuality we have an advantage over what Jesus did. Don’t you see now that as Satan and his see Jesus indwelling you, they immediately know they are defeated as long as He isn’t cast out by you. It is truly as Luther stated, “Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever.” Martin Luther

That’s exactly what you do when you will not confess you can overcome with His indwelling. You begin to yell “works” right off. Let me tell you this, you are doing more work trying to get out of the little bit of work of true faith than it would take to do it.. You work harder at getting out of work than it takes to do the job.

No, in my opinion and many here see you are not preaching the true saving gospel message. Because none are saved in sin. He graciously forgives then tells you go sin no more and He made it so you could my friend.

Please hear a word from the SOP,

There will be some terrible falls by those who think they stand firm because they have the truth; but they have it not as it is in Jesus. A moment's carelessness may plunge a soul into irretrievable ruin. One sin leads to the second, and the second prepares the way for a third and so on. We must as faithful messengers of God, plead with Him constantly to be kept by His power. If we swerve a single inch from duty we are in danger of following on in a course of sin that ends in perdition. There is hope for every one of us, but only in one way by fastening ourselves to Christ, and exerting every energy to attain to the perfection of His character. This goody goody religion that makes light of sin and that is forever dwelling upon the love of God to the sinner, encourages the sinner to believe that God will save him while he continues in sin and he knows it to be sin. This is the way that many are doing who profess to believe present truth. The truth is kept apart from their life, and that is the reason it has no more power to convict and convert the soul. There must be a straining of every nerve and spirit and muscle to leave the world, its customs, its practices, and its fashions. . . . {6MR 12.2}

Will those who claim to be children of the Most High elevate the standard, not for a day, not simply while assembled in your meeting, but as long as time shall last? Will they not be on the Lord's side and serve him with full purpose of heart? . . . If you put away sin and exercise living faith, the riches of heaven's blessing will be yours.--Letter 53, 1887, pp. 1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 12. (To "Dear Brethren and Sisters Who Shall Attend the April Meeting at Oakland, California," undated.) {6MR 12.3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

They can not be separated!

"Disconnect the Law and the Gospel?--The enemy has ever labored to disconnect the law and the gospel. They go hand in hand (MS 11, 1893). {6BC 1073.3}

We honor both the Father and the Son when we talk about the law. The Father gave us the law, and the Son died to magnify it and make it honorable (MS 5, 1885). {6BC 1073.4}

It is impossible for us to exalt the law of Jehovah unless we take hold of the righteousness of Jesus Christ (MS 5, 1889). {6BC 1073.5}

The law of Jehovah is the tree, the gospel is the fragrant blossoms and fruit which it bears (Letter 119, 1897). {6BC 1073.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

to your last few posts.

[Robert]

In Gibs defence, I think he understands the gospel very well.

[Robert]

Robert, For heavens sake man I am not off topic....

You are off topic and I refuse to read one thing you say if it is not on subject. Understand?

[Robert]

"Disconnect the Law and the Gospel?--The enemy has ever labored to disconnect the law and the gospel. They go hand in hand (MS 11, 1893). {6BC 1073.3}

Yes, but how? In other words for there to be a gospel Christ just couldn't set the law aside. The law had to be answered. How?

The law demands the death of the sinner! Christ's death instead of ours doesn't answer the law. Hence humanity had to die. That's why Ellen White said, "humanity died - Deity did not sink and die"!

"By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for men (mankind). This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption."

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

I have given you enough info that you should be able to answer my question, but for some reason no one can answer my question.

[Gibs]

Robert, I knew you didn't read hardly anything I say. So in fact I don't say it for your benefit but for the edification of others who have a heart for the truth of the matter.

I wonder, do you love the law? I certainly Hope So. It can become our nature as spoken of here.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Your question Robert will only be answered to suit you by one who sees as you do.

We should with the Divine Nature in us do very easy what those Gentiles did naturally. It really should IF the Divine Nature is in us be our very nature.

"We stop short of exercising faith. We need the simplicity of godliness that will take hold of the work and come right down to Christlike practises with a spirit willing to help where help is needed. The Majesty of heaven, the King of glory, came to our world to preach the gospel of salvation. He invites you to listen to his words. He was so filled with his mission to men that his own mother could not draw him from his work. The sick and suffering were before him, and he must labor for them." {RH, January 21, 1909 par. 17}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.