Luther on the Antichrist

[Gibs]

You done led me to it, Robert,

Back to Luther on the Antichrist, folks and His Blessings as you persue it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

[Gibs]

Robert, ain't ya got that figured out yet. Is God bound by any laws? I know not and it was and is His prililedge to do what He knows best and none, no not one can find fault not one in Him. Don't you see, HE IS THE LAW!

You can be saved because of His Grace and great Love to go far and beyond what man or angels could or would ever do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Is God bound by any laws?

The Bible states that "God is love". Upon further inspection it says "love is the fulfillment of the law". There God is the fulfillment of the law. His character is in complete harmony with the spirit of the law.

I don't get it with Christians who conclude that God can do as He wants. NO HE CAN"T!!!! It is impossible for God to sin.

Now then, can you answer my question?

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

[Gibs]

We did answer your question Robert, you just can't accept it. He, God is above any laws. Aren't you glad He made a way to cancel your sin and make of you a new man in His Saviour. He did it all for us and He broke no law as He is not bound by any law.

No yoke of law is upon God or Christ only as He came as one of us He too came under the law and He fulfilled it by keeping it, from love and we too do it from love. That is the only motive that will work.

Please read the following Sister White quote,

"Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God's; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all Heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man's freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come; and when God asked, "whom shall I send?" He could reply, "Here am I; send me." He could pledge Himself to become man's surety; for He could say that which the highest angel could not say,--I have power over My own life, "power to lay it down, and . . . power to take it again."--The Youth's Instructor, June 21, 1900. {7ABC 461.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

He, God is above any laws.

Then God can sin and it's okay. That idea is from the devil...

If God can do as He pleases He could have spared Christ untold pain and simply did away with the law. He could have simply said "I forgive you" and Christ need not have died.

"Had it been possible for the law to be changed or abrogated, then Christ need not have died." [Ellen White]

So God can't do as He pleases. His law states that "the soul who sins must die." According to Paul "you died to the law in the body of Christ" (Romans 6:6/7:4)

Now, can you tell me how you died in Christ 2000 years ago? That might help you answer my question "How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?"

[Robert]

Here's the problem: Christ isn't the sinner therefore He can't be charged with sin! For God to condemn an innocent man, Jesus Christ, is both unjust and a lie. Why? Jesus kept the law and He never sinned not even by a thought. So how could Christ be cursed by the law?

[BobRyan]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

God pays the suffering-and-torment debt of sin owed by the sinner according to His Law. The demands of the Law are met.

In Luke 12 Christ said that the one who knows much - owes much and the one who knows little and yet goes to hell - owes less (assuming both are guilty of the same things for comparison).

Christ pays the suffering and torment debt owed by both.

Thus the penalty demanded by the Law is met.

Furthermore the sinner is born again - a new creation take place and from then on the sinner "by the Spirit puts to death the deeds of the flesh" Romans 8.

Because of that combination (payment in full, transformation via the miracle of the new birth, daily putting to death of the old nature - the deeds of the flesh) - we have both justice and mercy in harmony in the Gospel.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

Robert, Robert, Don't you know Jesus was made to be sin in our place if we repent. That could be put better but that is what I see and I know it to be true, God didn't make any mistake.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

God pays the suffering-and-torment debt of sin owed by the sinner according to His Law. The demands of the Law are met.

In Luke 12 Christ said that the one who knows much - owes much and the one who knows little and yet goes to hell - owes less (assuming both are guilty of the same things for comparison).

Christ pays the suffering and torment debt owed by both.

Thus the penalty demanded by the Law is met.

Furthermore the sinner is born again - a new creation take place and from then on the sinner "by the Spirit puts to death the deeds of the flesh" Romans 8.

Because of that combination (payment in full, transformation via the miracle of the new birth, daily putting to death of the old nature - the deeds of the flesh) - we have both justice and mercy in harmony in the Gospel.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

[Robert]

Robert, Robert, Don't you know Jesus was made to be sin in our place if we repent.

Jesus' death was for all men. Jesus saved the human race in His doing & dying. Jesus didn't die for us IF we repent. He died for us when we were His enemies and living for the flesh.

Again, it is very plain that many of you are in Babylon. You are teaching practically the same gospel that the Roman Church teaches.

[Gibs]

The thing is Robert, He died for us in vain if you don't repent. Yes I worded it wrong but in the end those who don't repent will not have benefited so in reality you should find there is no remission of sin without repentance.

Let not His efforts or ours be lost in vain.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[earl40]

Robert and Gibs? Have either of you ever noticed that our faith is not part of The Gospel? The Gospel is that Jesus (Who is the second person of The Trinity) lived the perfect life as the representative of those He died for. IOW if Jesus died for YOU, you will be saved. If He did not you will be lost. The ultimate cause of anybodies salvation is Jesus doing all the work. Our faith and repentance is the outworking of Him and Him alone.

[Gibs]

earl140,

I fully realize it is the power of Christ, His Spirit that brings us to repentance. Now many will not repent is the problem. They keep ignoring the tugging of His Spirit until He is grieved a way and then they are lost. No one can come to repentance until the Power of His Spirit is upon them!

A word from Sister White,

" Repentance is associated with faith and is urged in the gospel as essential to salvation. Paul preached repentance. He said, "I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:20, 21). There is no salvation without repentance. No impenitent sinner can believe with his heart unto righteousness, Repentance is described by Paul as a godly sorrow for sin that "worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of" (2 Corinthians 7:10). This repentance has in it nothing of the nature of merit, but it prepares the heart for the acceptance of Christ as the only Saviour, the only hope of the lost sinner. {FW 99.2}

As the sinner looks to the law, his guilt is made plain to him and pressed home to his conscience, and he is condemned. His only comfort and hope is found in looking to the cross of Calvary. As he ventures upon the promises, taking God at His word, relief and peace come to his soul. He cries, "Lord, Thou hast promised to save all who come unto Thee in the name of Thy Son. I am a lost, helpless, hopeless soul. Lord, save, or I perish." His faith lays hold on Christ, and he is justified before God. {FW 99.3}

But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {FW 100.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Let not His efforts or ours be lost in vain.

Let's keep to the subject, again....

[Robert]

our faith is not part of The Gospel...

True...the gospel is what Christ did in our humanity

[Robert]

I fully realize it is the power of Christ, His Spirit that brings us to repentance. Now many will not repent....

You are off subject!

Why are you and others avoiding my question? I think the answer is you can't answer it because you do not understand the gospel. If you don't understand the gospel you'll get sidetracked into legalism.

[Gibs]

Not to what you brought up Robert. We both are off topic. Back to "Luther on the Antichrist" is fine with me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

[Gibs]

We all understand those verses Robert. We find it is Robert who don't. You won't leave it alone will you. He freely forgives and then says, "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee".Joh 5:14

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

Robert believes God has a sick sense of humor. Asking us to do things that even God Himself cannot give us the power to do.

What a twisted and cruel prank that would be, if it were true.

[Robert]

We all understand those verses Robert. We find it is Robert who don't. You won't leave it alone will you.

No, you don't understand because you can't answer the question. Not having an understanding of the gospel is very, very dangerous. You know how I know that it's dangerous? Gal 1:8

"even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."

You better understand the gospel or you'll believe any other gospel. Do you know what it means to be "accursed"?

It means to be under a curse. Why does Paul use that adjective? Because if you preach any other gospel then the one Paul delivered from Christ you will naturally preach a legalistic, unethical gospel. This is why Roman is Babylon and if you preach any other gospel you too belong to Roman.

Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law (as a matter of salvation) are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

To be cursed is to have God abandon you to the grave for eternity. Hence no heaven for you.....

[Robert]

"How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?" According to the Bible itself no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one!

[Gibs]

You have a do nothing theology and it is not the right answer. None not one will be saved while continuing in sin, don't just pick and choose what suits you and the Bible is clear and you will not see it. Get real Robert.

How much do you really love Him? If enough, doing His Will is your pleasure. His Will is set out for you me and all. I love to do it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.