George Knight's book on Romans says Romans 2 is true!

[BobRyan]

Oh good - we get to talk about Romans 2 - and the GOSPEL Paul says in it.

[BobRyan]

And that brings us to the actual text of Romans 2 -

Now on to Romans 2 - since you seem to think I wrote it.

But what does Paul say about those under the GOSPEL in Romans 2? (You know -- the "Gospel" where the LAW of God is written on the mind and on the heart?? Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:31-33)

Romans 2

9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

=======================

Please note - Paul is the author of Romans 2 -- it is Paul that affirms this to be "according to my GOSPEL".

[BobRyan]

Even you, if your fruits are of the Spirit and not your own self-righteousness, are ultimately saved by what Christ did 2000 years ago. Otherwise you are saved partially by Christ and partially by your law obedience. That's a subtle form of legalism. It's "I + Christ". This is Roman Catholic in origin and belongs to Babylon.

Quote:

But first Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them...not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father"

Yes, by their fruits you'll know them, but fruits does not equal perfection.

[Gerr]

NO one will ever be saved because he/she obeys the law. No saved person deliberately breaks the law.

[BobRyan]

indeed - the instruction to the lost is not "be better behaved lost people" and the instruction to the saved is never "don't worry about obeying the law of God just try to be justified".

Paul's instruction to the saved is found in Romans 2 as well as his condemnation of those who reject the Gospel also found in Romans 2.

in 1cor 7:19 Paul says to the saved "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

in 1 cor 7:19 Paul says to the saved "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

We need to examine the whole context. I read chapter 7 - the context is marriage/adultery.

Marriage

1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command: 7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? 17 Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts. 20 Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to. 25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. 27 Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. 32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife-- 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 36 If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin--this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better. 39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is--and I think

that I too have the Spirit of God.

Okay, the commands of God, in the above context, have to do with marriage. This is not speaking of the Ten Commandments, although it does speak to adultery.

[Robert]

NO one will ever be saved because he/she obeys the law.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

in 1 cor 7:19 Paul says to the saved "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

We need to examine the whole context. I read chapter 7 - the context is marriage/adultery.

Marriage

... This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts. 20 Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to.

Okay, the commands of God, in the above context, have to do with marriage. This is not speaking of the Ten Commandments,

As we can see int he above example the "commandments of God" are set in contrast to the moral code - such as circumcision - thus we have a clear contrast between the moral law and the ceremonial law.

Paul says to the gentile - the one not circumcised not to worry about the ceremonial law - but the moral law 'keeping the commandments of God" is what matters for both Jew and Gentile - not the ceremonial law.

Paul points out that whether a slave or a free man - what really matters is "keeping the Commandments of God" - not your state as slave or free in this world's eyes.

Paul says that whether Jew or Gentile what really matters is "keeping the Commandments of God" not the ceremonial law.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

He never asked of us one thing that He doesn't enable us to do. We are enabled with "Christ in You the Hope of Glory".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

It is interesting that Romans 2 includes the contrast between the saved and the lost - and so also does Romans 7 and 8 and 6...

in Christ,

Bob