Romans 7

[Robert]

For sure he is trying, bbbbbbbbutttt, he is doing it WITHOUT the Holy Spirit!!!

7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man

Who wrote that law in his inward man?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

For sure he is trying, bbbbbbbbutttt, he is doing it WITHOUT the Holy Spirit!!!

7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man

Who wrote that law in his inward man?

Where does it say it is written in his heart? There are lots of people who know the law intellectually, but it is NOT written in their hearts. As the Apostle says, ESV | ‎1 Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, ‎5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

There are lots of people who claim to know Jesus and are delighted in Jesus who will someday hear His words,“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. 1995 (Mt 7:23). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

[Robert]

Where does it say it is written in his heart?

Verse 25: "So then with the mind (i.e., heart) I myself serve the law of God".

That's written in the heart. Now, look at that phrase "the inward man".

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Where does it say it is written in his heart?

Verse 25: "So then with the mind (i.e., heart) I myself serve the law of God".

That's written in the heart. Now, look at that phrase "the inward man".

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God

The man or Rom 7: ESV | ‎Ro 7:18 "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. ‎19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing."

ESV | ‎Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, ‎20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, ‎21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The Spirit-filled believer: ESV | ‎Ga 5:16 "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. ‎17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do....But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ‎23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ‎24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

ESV | ‎Php 2:13 "...it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

[Robert]

Gerry, you are jumping around frantically looking for other verses to refute what I am posting, but you can't honestly do that.

I proved to you that the man of Romans 7 has the law written into his heart. I've also proved to you that "the inward man" refers to the converted man. Why do you ignore these?

[Guest]

Because you haven't proven that, Robert.

[John317]

What does it mean to have the law written on one's heart?

When the law of God is written on our heart and mind, it is an actual part of our lives. I don't see evidence of this in the man Paul is describing.

The Holy Spirit is working on the heart and mind of the man of Romans 7, but there's no valid evidence that He is being led or indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

[John317]

For sure he is trying, bbbbbbbbutttt, he is doing it WITHOUT the Holy Spirit!!!

Here's what happens when believers "walk in the Spirit,..you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh," Gal 5:16.

Both the foolish and the wise virgins of Mt 25 had lamps, but only the wise had the oil.

x10

[John317]

Where does it say it is written in his heart? There are lots of people who know the law intellectually, but it is NOT written in their hearts. As the Apostle says, ESV |1 Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

There are lots of people who claim to know Jesus and are delighted in Jesus who will someday hear His words,“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

That's clear. Very well put.

There's a big difference between having information in one's mind and knowing Jesus personally because of submitting his life to Him. The man of Romans 7 has the former but not the latter.

[Gerr]

Gerry, you are jumping around frantically looking for other verses to refute what I am posting, but you can't honestly do that.

I proved to you that the man of Romans 7 has the law written into his heart. I've also proved to you that "the inward man" refers to the converted man. Why do you ignore these?

You mean I can't use the words of the author of the same epistles? or the words that came from the same Person that inspired ALL of Scripture? Would Paul tell the Roman believers one thing and the Galatians another? Would the Holy Spirit?

[Robert]

Because you haven't proven that, Robert.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 8:7 The sinful mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. [TNIV]

You see the mind without God is naturally opposed to God neither does it submit to His law. This is not true of the man of Romans 7 for he "delights in the law of God".

Go to Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. [NKJV]

Note that unsaved man's nature and mind are in harmony with each other. What one desires the other desires.

This isn't true of the man of Romans 7. Verse 15: "For what I want to do (righteousness) I do not do, but what I hate (sin) I do."

Yes, the man of Romans 7 has a besetting issue when it comes to sin, but keep in mind Paul is dealing with our walk in light of the spirituality of the law. Even Ellen White agrees:

Paul says that “as touching the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned—he was “blameless”, but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, when he looked into the holy mirror, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by a human standard, he had abstained from sin, but when he looked into the depths of God’s law, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation, and confessed his guilt. (The Review and Herald, July 22, 1890).

So the man of Romans 7 has a converted mind for it is in harmony with God's law. He is failing to keep the spirit of the law. That's the context.

Are any of you keeping the outward rules (i.e., don't kill, steal, commit adultery, etc...), but failing to keep the spirit of the law? If so, there's hope because "in Christ" there is no condemnation.

[Robert]

Are any of you keeping the outward rules (i.e., don't kill, steal, commit adultery, etc...), but failing to keep the spirit of the law? If so, there's hope because "in Christ" there is no condemnation.

Outward rule:

Matt 5:27 You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'

Spiritual rule:

28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart (mind).

I like what Morris Venden said about Eve's sin. When did she sin - before she went to the tree or after?

Outwardly when she went to the tree. Spiritually speaking when she consented to the temptation of going to the tree. So she had sinned before going to the tree.

When you gentlemen admire any young woman in her it-se-bit-se bikini you can't claim you aren't sinning because the spirit of the law says that you are. If you look at a woman lustfully - even for a millisecond - according to the spirit of the law you have had sex with her.

Outward rule:

Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'

Spiritual rule:

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

If you become angry even with your enemies (see verse 43,44) in the eyes of the spirit of the law you are a murderer.

You get the idea.

[Gibs]

If there is any of the law of God you don't love, then His Law is not in your heart and would be an impossibility for one to keep it. It only proves whom one loves more.

We are in step when we have come to hate sin and love Him with all our hearts and souls and so His Law the same, for to love Him is to love His Law.

If we REALLY do love Him we will keep His commandments, He says so,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How much do we love Him is the question? If we can't keep them commandments then the answer is not enough Love! We must then come to love Him more and to hate sin more!

It is called FAITH that works by LOVE!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

If there is any of the law of God you don't love, then His Law is not in your heart....

Then I suppose "murder" has not been written in your mind because you said if a punk came in your house that you would shoot him.

Jesus said "love your enemies", not murder them.

[Guest]

If there is any of the law of God you don't love, then His Law is not in your heart and would be an impossibility for one to keep it. It only proves whom one loves more.

We are in step when we have come to hate sin and love Him with all our hearts and souls and so His Law the same, for to love Him is to love His Law.

If we REALLY do love Him we will keep His commandments, He says so,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How much do we love Him is the question? If we can't keep them commandments then the answer is not enough Love! We must then come to love Him more and to hate sin more!

It is called FAITH that works by LOVE!

That's exactly right Gibs.

[Robert]

You are a God & guns, NRA man, right? What does this have to do with "loving your enemies"? Apparently all you "right-wingers" are far away from God's intent. Christ loved His enemies...He didn't fight back or kill them.

1 Peter 2:21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 22 “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.” 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

Jesus didn't say, I belong to the NSA (national sword association) and I'll whack your head off if you mess with Me! No...He loved those who hated and murdered Him. He was willing to give up eternal life so His enemies could have heaven in His place.

[Guest]

You are a God & guns, NRA man, right?

Wrong! I'm a God only man. And I'm not a member of the NRA. Your thinking is off the mark.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You are a God & guns, NRA man, right?

Wrong! I'm a God only man. And I'm not a member of the NRA. Your thinking is off the mark.

Really? Then you've changed?

[Guest]

Really? Then you've changed?

I keep trying to tell you, God will change you if you let him. All it takes is a tiny bit of willingness.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Really? Then you've changed?

I keep trying to tell you, God will change you if you let him. All it takes is a tiny bit of willingness.

Great...good...Wow, you've changed. Okay....However, before you changed "there was no condemnation" because of your failure if you were resting in Christ's finished work.

[Guest]

Okay....However, before you changed "there was no condemnation" because of your failure if you were resting in Christ's finished work.

So I was saved whether I allowed God to change me or not?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Okay....However, before you changed "there was no condemnation" because of your failure if you were resting in Christ's finished work.

So I was saved whether I allowed God to change me or not?

God takes you where you are at....If not, since you aren't living Christ's life of agape fully, then you are not saved. Follow?

[Guest]

God takes you where you are at...

He doesn't take you if you don't let him. Would you agree that if you allow God to come into your life, that He is going to make some changes?

[Robert]

He doesn't take you if you don't let him.

But you are imperfect...what are you suggesting?

[Guest]

But you are imperfect...what are you suggesting?

I'm suggesting that you have free will, and a choice to make. Being imperfect doesn't change that.