Romans 7

[John317]

Robert, A good place to start to learn about the Bible versions is Gail Riplingers book titled "New Age Bible Versions".

Gibs, Riplinger doesn't know what she's talking about. She gives false information. Tomorrow I will give you a number of examples from here book, chapter and page number.

The truth is that the gospel can be found equally well in the Received Text, the Majority Text, and the Critical Text.

If you don't believe so, tell me the Bible doctrines that cannot be found in the Critical Text.

That doesn't mean there aren't problems with the translations. There are problems with all the translations, including the KJV, although the KJV is a lot more dependable than many of its critics are willing to admit. At any rate, there is NO perfect translation of the Bible.

In order to be "God's word," a translation doesn't have to be perfect. Remember that the Septuagint (which Paul used) was very different from the Hebrew text of the Old Testament, yet Paul leaves no doubt that the LXX is the inspired word of God.

I prefer the KJV myself, but I also use the RSV, the NKJV, the NASB, the NIV, etc. I always compare them to each other, to the various Greek printed texts, and take note of the textual evidence supporting the different readings.

Bottom line: God has watched over His word and protected it from false teachings. That doesn't mean God has kept humans from making errors, but he kept them from making significant errors in the Scriptures that would lead people to be lost.

[John317]

[Robert]

There's nothing wrong at all with the translation, Robert.

[Robert]

I prefer the KJV myself, but I also use the RSV, the NKJV, the NASB, the NIV, etc.

I like the NASB & the NIV, then NKJV. Very seldom do I like the KJV....

[Robert]

In order to be "God's word," a translation doesn't have to be perfect.

John's right....

[Robert]

How ironic. Robert was accusing us of being like Catholics just the other day.

When it comes to salvation by works, yes.... Catholicism is based on merit or salvation partially by faith and partially by works. Sad to say Traditional Adventism teaches the same heresy, with some variations.

Salvation is based totally on Christ's doing & dying. Anything I experience through the Spirit does not add to Christ's perfect work - hence any works produced in me are works of faith, not works of the law.

[Robert]

Romans 8:1,2 is the imputed righteousness of Christ

Romans 8:3,4 is the imparted righteousness of Christ.

The man of Romans needs to experience Christ's imparted righteousness. He needs (as we all do) to not rely on "the law of my mind" (his will power) to defeat "the law of sin" (our bent-to-self), but "the law of the Spirit".

Notice, in Romans 7:25 Paul says, "with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

"I myself" means with my will power, not "the law of the Spirit".

You see in Romans chapter 7 you have 3 laws (forces).

1] The law of my mind

2] The law of sin

3] The law of God

As the man of Romans 7 states, he delights in "the law of God" according to the "inward man". So in his mind he loves God's law. The problem is he is trying to use his will power (the law of my mind) to defeat the sin nature (the law of sin) and therefore he is meeting with defeat.

Is there condemnation for such a believer?

Paul says "no".

Now, as he learns to "walk in the Spirit" he will begin to experience Romans 8:3,4, but that is not the bases of his salvation. It's based on the imputed righteousness of Christ.

[Gibs]

I agree Robert that our righteousness is imputed to us from Christ. But what does it require? Is it just given to us because we want it and still hold onto our sining.?

Is it given to us just because we believe that He is? Afraid not as the devils fear and tremble.

Here is a Quote from Sister White who explains how this gift comes about.

"The guests at the marriage feast were inspected by the king. Only those were accepted who had obeyed his requirements and put on the wedding garment. So it is with the guests at the gospel feast. All must pass the scrutiny of the great King, and only those are received who have put on the robe of Christ's righteousness. {COL 312.1}

Righteousness is right doing, and it is by their deeds that all will be judged. Our characters are revealed by what we do. The works show whether the faith is genuine. {COL 312.2}

It is not enough for us to believe that Jesus is not an impostor, and that the religion of the Bible is no cunningly devised fable. We may believe that the name of Jesus is the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, and yet we may not through faith make Him our personal Saviour. It is not enough to believe the theory of truth. It is not enough to make a profession of faith in Christ and have our names registered on the church roll. "He that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us." "Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments." 1 John 3:24; 2:3. This is the genuine evidence of conversion. Whatever our profession, it amounts to nothing unless Christ is revealed in works of righteousness. {COL 312.3}

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We are destitute of His Spirit in us if we don't have faith that works by love.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

I agree Robert that our righteousness is imputed to us from Christ. But what does it require? Is it just given to us because we want it ...

No, we have to keep all the rules and then Christ will give us His robe.

Of course the question is, why do we need His robe (imputed righteousness) if we are keeping all the rules?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes, a Catholic.

A Catholic?

On what grounds do you say that of me, John317?

I'm sorry, I apologize, Gerhard. I was thinking of someone else.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I agree Robert that our righteousness is imputed to us from Christ. But what does it require? Is it just given to us because we want it ...

No, we have to keep all the rules and then Christ will give us His robe.

Of course the question is, why do we need His robe (imputed righteousness) if we are keeping all the rules?

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Our behavior and our words tell whether we really love Christ and if He is really Lord of our life. It's wrong to think of obedience as something we do in order to earn justification or Christ's righteousness. Nothing could be further from the truth. The faith that justifies is living faith which works by love.

[John317]

[Robert]

It's wrong to think of obedience as something we do in order to earn justification or Christ's righteousness. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Not according to Gibs....

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: John317

It's wrong to think of obedience as something we do in order to earn justification or Christ's righteousness. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Not according to Gibs....

It's a free country. Gibs can believe whatever he wants to.

Q.E.D.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: John317

It's wrong to think of obedience as something we do in order to earn justification or Christ's righteousness. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Not according to Gibs....

You better had go back and read my post again Robert # 583916 and you will see I said nothing of the kind.

You make of peoples posts and the Word of God always as you want to see it.

Look Bro. I posted Sister White's statement on obtaining Christ's Robe of Righteousness. Is she Wrong? I know she is not.

How free of a ride do you want getting in Heaven to be? So free you can take your sining with you, it will not be, forget it, you must be an overcomer in this time of probation.

There is hope for each and every one and the way is not galling but is Exhilarating to accomplish His desire for us which He has enabled all if they will to do His will.

Who is your taskmaster? He to whom you do things to please!

"There is hope for every one of us, but only in one way—by fastening ourselves to Christ and exerting every energy to attain to the perfection of His character.

This goody-goody religion that makes light of sin, and that is forever dwelling upon the love of God to the sinner, encourages sinners to believe that God will save them while they continue in sin and know it to be sin. This is the way that many are doing who profess to believe present truth.

The truth is kept apart from their life, and that is the reason it has no more power to convict and convert the soul. There must be a straining of every nerve and spirit and muscle to leave the world, its customs, its practices, and its fashions. . . . {CTr 81.2}

The lives of many show that they have no living connection with God. They are drifting into the channel of the world. In reality they have no part or lot with Christ. They love amusement and are filled with selfish plans, hopes, and ambitions. They serve the enemy under the pretense of serving God. They are in bondage to a taskmaster, and this bondage they choose, making themselves willing slaves of Satan. . . . {CTr 81.3}

That is a strong statement there from EGW, but know Jesus gave some too!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

verse 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual,

The law is more than it appears! The law is spiritual as we have seen in the preceding verses.

but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin (born bent-to-self).

In other words the law demands agape love, but I am born in love with myself. I have self-love and the law demands agape love in order to meet its spiritual demands.

[Robert]

Look Bro. I posted Sister White's statement on obtaining Christ's Robe of Righteousness. Is she Wrong? I know she is not.

Absolutely, not unless you took her out of context.

You can't purchase Christ's robe of righteousness...it's a free gift. If you think you can then you are going die the 2nd death. Did you understand me? No joking around!

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.

[Robert]

Let's see just how that works.

2Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ,

This is our position in Christ.

[BobRyan]

verse 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual,

The law is more than it appears! The law is spiritual as we have seen in the preceding verses.

but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin (born bent-to-self).

In other words the law demands agape love, but I am born in love with myself. I have self-love and the law demands agape love in order to meet its spiritual demands.

[Robert]

Bob, let's cut the bull.

Are you living in perfect harmony with the law? Not merely formalism where you outwardly comply with certain rules, but where you love your neighbor as yourself?

[Guest]

Bob, let's cut the bull.

Are you living in perfect harmony with the law? Not merely formalism where you outwardly comply with certain rules, but where you love your neighbor as yourself?

To the best of his ability. And where he may fall short unknowingly, grace abounds and makes up the difference.

[Robert]

To the best of his ability. And where he may fall short unknowingly, grace abounds and makes up the difference.

Oh, I get it, Bob does his best and Christ makes up the difference! Wow, that will be glory for Bob. He can claim merit...he can say "I helped Christ save me". I did 90% and Christ made up the 10%.

Now, if you believe such a legalistic gospel, then what about some poor sinner who only produces 1%, will Christ make up the 99%?

[BobRyan]

Storytelling is not going to make the Bible texts go away. As my previous post demonstrates - your argument is with the text itself.

[olger]

As my previous post demonstrates - your argument is with the text itself.

I'd say so.

[Robert]

Storytelling is not going to make the Bible texts go away. As my previous post demonstrates - your argument is with the text itself.