Romans 7

[Robert]

verse 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me (indwelling sin - my bent-to-self), the one who wants to do good.

22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man....

a] I've been over this until I am blue in the face. The man living for the flesh (nature), as a lifestyle, hates God's law (read Romans 8:7)

b] "The inner man" (the inward man) always refers to the converted man. I've given you these verses before!

So the law of God is written in the man of Romans 7 mind. Hence he wants to keep the spirit of the law.

23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

That law in our members (our bodies) is a force (like the law of gravity) that drives us towards self-love and self-seeking.

Now what if I told you to deny yourself, give all your possessions to your worst enemy and do it out of pure agape love so there's nothing in it for you, but rather do it because you love your enemy more than yourself! Could you do it?

Well, yes, if you are fully walking in the Spirit, God could fully defeat your bent-to-self and you could do what I asked above, but in reality "no" we couldn't do it through our will power (our converted mind).

So we must say with Paul, 24 "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death (this body going to the grave)?

25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Did you get that? "I myself"! What does that mean? That means with my converted will power. The man of Romans is failing to keep the spirit of God's law because he is trying to defeat his bent-to-self using his will power.

What does he need to defeat the his bent-to-self?

"The law of the Spirit". He needs to give up on using his converted will power (his mind that is in harmony with God's law) and let God have his nature. That's walking in the Spirit. That's sanctification. It's a process....

But, since he is struggling with sin, and meeting defeat, is there any condemnation?

Keep my he hates sin....he loves God's law, but he finds himself failing. He is not saying "it's okay to sin"...he is not condoning sin or justifying sin.

It there condemnation?

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

[Robert]

So there's good news for the believing sinner who is struggling:

You are complete in Christ. You are already clean as John states. Don't give up because you aren't perfect, instead "remain in Me, and I in you."

Then you will produce and experience agape love, but only as you rest in His finished work!

Your foundation is always the righteousness of Christ. That's the imputed righteousness of Christ. Only if you are fully resting in what Christ did 2000 years ago can you experience Christ's imparted righteousness. Hence if your faith is in the Christ's imputed righteousness, you will experience His imparted righteous. Some thirty-fold, some sixty-fold and some one hundred-fold.

[BobRyan]

verse 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me (indwelling sin - my bent-to-self), the one who wants to do good.

22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man....

a] I've been over this until I am blue in the face. The man living for the flesh (nature), as a lifestyle, hates God's law (read Romans 8:7)

b] "The inner man" (the inward man) always refers to the converted man. I've given you these verses before!

So the law of God is written in the man of Romans 7 mind. Hence he wants to keep the spirit of the law.

23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

That law in our members (our bodies) is a force (like the law of gravity) that drives us towards self-love and self-seeking.

It is called the "Sinful nature" - both the lost and the saved have one.

It is why Paul says "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified from it" 1Cor 9

In Romans 8 the victory-over-sinning solution that Paul gives is not about "not having a sinful nature" it is about overcoming the propensity to sin present in our sinful nature - "By the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

verse 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual,

The law is more than it appears! The law is spiritual as we have seen in the preceding verses.

but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin (born bent-to-self).

In other words the law demands agape love, but I am born in love with myself. I have self-love and the law demands agape love in order to meet its spiritual demands.

Praise God that HE provides the "New Birth" where "old things are passed away and ALL things are become new" 2Cor 5. A Gospel "solution" that even writes the very LAW of God "on the mind and the heart" thus we obey Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" From the heart.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

the "New Birth" where "old things are passed away and ALL things are become new" 2Cor 5.

[Q.E.D.]

It is because of our self-love - our bent-to-self - our iniquity - that all have sinned and fall short of God's agape love. Is there any condemnation for those who have put their faith "in Christ Jesus", but who are failing to live His life? That's the question! The answer?

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 (why?) because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set YOU free from the law of sin and death.

Methinks that if one is "IN Christ Jesus" they would not be "failing to live his life".

"The Spirit of Life would set YOU free from the law of sin and death" so that YOU would NOT COMMIT sin since YOU are "SET FREE" from the cycle of "SIN and DEATH" by the SPIRIT OF LIFE . . .Therefore there would be "No Condemnation" for YOU!

Have Jesus?

Have Life!

Have the Spirit of Life!

Have Freedom from sin and death!

Have VICTORY!

Have Eternal Life!

Oh! The Sweet Victory. . .

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

Methinks that if one is "IN Christ Jesus" they would not be "failing to live his life".

"The Spirit of Life would set YOU free from the law of sin and death" that one would NOT COMMIT sin ....

Methinks you can't read very well!

Here's what it actually says:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

You are free from,

1] The law of sin (your sinful nature) "in Christ Jesus" and

2] from the death sentence - the curse of the law.

This you have "in Christ" by faith. Of yourself you have a sinful nature and of your own performance you stand condemned under the law.

Get Christ and get life.

[Q.E.D.]

"To live eternally with God we must overcome our sinful character traits."

Is the above statement true or false?

"Enquiring Minds Want To Know."

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

"To live eternally with God we must overcome our sinful character traits."

Is the above statement true or false?

"Enquiring Minds Want To Know."

Q.E.D.

First of all you need to acknowledge your error in the prior post concerning the true reading of Romans 8:1,2

Be honest and admit that you misquoted it....That's a good start on overcoming your sinful traits.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

"To live eternally with God we must overcome our sinful character traits."

Is the above statement true or false?

"Enquiring Minds Want To Know."

Q.E.D.

First of all you need to acknowledge your error in the prior post concerning the true reading of Romans 8:1,2

Be honest and admit that you misquoted it....That's a good start on overcoming your sinful traits.

Ok, I will be honest.

I did not quote Romans 8:1,2 at all, I quoted ONLY from your post.

I confess my sin!

Please review your post for the accruacy of my confession.

Confession is good for the soul. . .

Q.E.D.

[Gibs]

To read and understand the full meaning of just a verse or two from Paul requires that you continue to read until he paints you the true full picture.

To NOT do that is choosing and picking to suit ones bent on what he wants to believe!

I like some more, like this,

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Don't you see, Paul is pointing out the law don't help us weaklings to keep it, it is only for a schoolmaster for those it isn't in their hearts and souls.

It is after the Spirit we are to walk, that is Christ in you and He continually if one will just hear His voice speaking within and has love and faith that works by love, he does just that, he walks after the Spirit, His God and Saviour.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

This is what saves....

[Guest]

Methinks that if one is "IN Christ Jesus" they would not be "failing to live his life".

"The Spirit of Life would set YOU free from the law of sin and death" so that YOU would NOT COMMIT sin since YOU are "SET FREE" from the cycle of "SIN and DEATH" by the SPIRIT OF LIFE . . .Therefore there would be "No Condemnation" for YOU!

Have Jesus?

Have Life!

Have the Spirit of Life!

Have Freedom from sin and death!

Have VICTORY!

Have Eternal Life!

Oh! The Sweet Victory. . .

Q.E.D.

Amen! You have nailed the true meaning of "Free from the law of sin and death".

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

This is what saves....

So you just mark a line through the parts of the Bible that don't fit into your gospel, or that say the opposite???

That doesn't solve your problem. It only makes it more apparent.

[bonnie]

Amen! You have nailed the true meaning of "Free from the law of sin and death".

As well as the new covenant of loving thy neighbor

"What you present,is good old fashioned heresy, but I like the word legalism a bit more. That fits you well.

'one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are~! "

[Guest]

As well as the new covenant of loving thy neighbor

[Gibs]

Robert, How do you negate and make of no consequence this statement by Jesus and many like it.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Here is seven more!

1Jo 5:4, 1Jo 5:6, Re 2:7, Re 2:17, Re 2:26, Re 3:6, Re 3:12.

Also remember, In the old ball game, three strikes and you are out.

But in this life we only get this one time of probation, and we need to make a "hit" in this time or you are out!

We only come this way once so make sure your efforts and His are not in vain for your salvation.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

We only come this way once so make sure your efforts and His are not in vain for your salvation.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

I'm resting in His finished work.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

As well as the new covenant of loving thy neighbor

That's right.

So you really love your neighbor as you do yourself? Funny, then, your neighbor should share in your wealth. Is that happening?

[Q.E.D.]

"To live eternally with God we must overcome our sinful character traits."

Is the above statement true or false?

"Enquiring Minds Want To Know."

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

So you just mark a line through the parts of the Bible that don't fit into your gospel, or that say the opposite???

That phrase isn't part of verse 1. That was added by a scribe, who just like yourself, had a legalistic mind.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

So you just mark a line through the parts of the Bible that don't fit into your gospel, or that say the opposite???

That phrase isn't part of verse 1. That was added by a scribe, who just like yourself, had a legalistic mind.

Who told you that?

[Robert]

Who told you that?

"The earliest and best witnesses of the Alexandrian and Western texts have no additional words for v1. Both the external evidence and the internal evidence are completely compelling for the shortest reading. The scribes were obviously motivated to add such qualifications (interpolated from v4), for otherwise Paul’s gospel smelled too much of grace."!

Careful students of the original text discover that the last part of Romans 8:1 in the King James version is an interpolation properly belonging to verse 4 [Romans 8:4]. The magnificent statement that opens Romans 8 - "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" - requires no qualifying clause. Our justification does not depend on our walk. Freedom from condemnation is given to all who are in Christ, and to be in Him means to be of the new creation. A glance at the Revised version or any critical translation will show that what I am pointing out is sustained by all the editors. It was man's innate aversion to sovereign grace, I am certain, that brought these qualifying words into the text of the King James version. It seemed too much to believe that freedom from condemnation depended solely on being in Christ Jesus and not on our walking after the Spirit. So it was easy to lift the words from verse 4 [Romans 8:4-note ] into verse 1 [Romans 8:1 ]. But in verse 4 [Romans 8:4 ] they have their proper place for there Paul was writing of the state of the believer. In verse 1 [Romans 8:1 ] it is the question of standing that is under consideration. (Romans and Galatians Ironside, Harry: Expository Commentaries)

[Robert]

Who told you that?

Here's one of the best commentaries on Romans:

"At the end of v 1 scribes added" who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.... [Word Biblical Commentary p 414]

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Who told you that?

"The earliest and best witnesses of the Alexandrian and Western texts have no additional words for v1. Both the external evidence and the internal evidence are completely compelling for the shortest reading. The scribes were obviously motivated to add such qualifications (interpolated from v4), for otherwise Paul’s gospel smelled too much of grace."!

Careful students of the original text discover that the last part of Romans 8:1 in the King James version is an interpolation properly belonging to verse 4 [Romans 8:4]. The magnificent statement that opens Romans 8 - "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" - requires no qualifying clause. Our justification does not depend on our walk. Freedom from condemnation is given to all who are in Christ, and to be in Him means to be of the new creation. A glance at the Revised version or any critical translation will show that what I am pointing out is sustained by all the editors. It was man's innate aversion to sovereign grace, I am certain, that brought these qualifying words into the text of the King James version. It seemed too much to believe that freedom from condemnation depended solely on being in Christ Jesus and not on our walking after the Spirit. So it was easy to lift the words from verse 4 [Romans 8:4-note ] into verse 1 [Romans 8:1 ]. But in verse 4 [Romans 8:4 ] they have their proper place for there Paul was writing of the state of the believer. In verse 1 [Romans 8:1 ] it is the question of standing that is under consideration. (Romans and Galatians Ironside, Harry: Expository Commentaries)

The above is just the opinions of commentators and is not proof of anything since commentators do not agree with one another.

"The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of God; they were erring mortals like ourselves. God has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor." {Gospel Workers, 1892, page 126.2}