Administrators Gail Posted November 26, 2012 Administrators Posted November 26, 2012 The other night I finished off my reading of the book of Job. Those last few chapters where God gets the last word in... absolutely fantastic! Not only were Job's friends given a talkin' to, but God blows Job away, too. Job- the one who WAS faithful. Not only did he get a new dimension to his spiritual experience, he got a reminder of who God is. And there was no response from anyone once the Lord Almighty had His say. My point- again- is that I believe that spirituality, like God, is way too big to put into our understanding. It should at least be vital to our beings. I don't think that our culture gets way deep enough of the time. Some cultures do carry their spirituality into their everyday lives more... One would think that Christianity has the potential. I think so, but rarely come across it in my travels. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted November 26, 2012 Administrators Posted November 26, 2012 It might be good to hear some of the stories of progression either way. I would be interested. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
JoeMo Posted November 26, 2012 Posted November 26, 2012 Among Christians, I have noticed that charismatics tend to dwell in the spiritual realm more so than other Christian cultures - some dwell almost exclusively in the spiritual realm. I know people that participate in what is called "treasure hunting" (charismatic witnessing and prayer ministry) 20 - 30 hours per week, on top of church, bible study, and small group meetings. Most of the ones I know also have a very positive, loving relationship with Jesus, as well. I'm not saying they are correct in everything they believe; I'm just making an observation that many of them consistently live what they believe.
Administrators Gail Posted November 26, 2012 Administrators Posted November 26, 2012 That is what I am talking about, JoeMo. People seemed to have incorporated God into conversations in the Bible and into their everyday dealings more than we do. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
SivartM Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 I see so many who grew up run from it. For me it's not so much running from it as being slowly dragged away from it. Placing unwavering faith in books and traditions and philosophical tenets simply because we're taught that they're true just doesn't work well with the modern (really more postmodern) way of thinking that my generation has absorbed. I guess it's your choice whether to see that as the result of degenerate young minds or a sign of hope for a dogma-riddled world. Obviously I'm of the latter opinion. Speaking for myself only, one thing that has really discouraged my faith in Adventism is that all discussion, within the church and with outsiders, is predicated upon the assumption that we are right, that we need to convert them. I've never been comfortable with the proselytizing-based view of relationships that many Adventists have when we supposedly think that everyone has some light and that everyone, including us, is missing some light that only comes occasionally as present truth. Our present truth is 150 years old. Other religions are experiencing their own present truth that's fresh and new, but Adventists tend to resist light from others in order to impose their own. Maybe some people are leaving because Adventism is just stagnant. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Good to see you SivartM. And excellent comments. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Naomi Posted November 27, 2012 Administrators Posted November 27, 2012 My point- again- is that I believe that spirituality, like God, is way too big to put into our understanding. It should at least be vital to our beings. I don't think that our culture gets way deep enough of the time. Some cultures do carry their spirituality into their everyday lives more... One would think that Christianity has the potential. I think so, but rarely come across it in my travels. I don't intend for this to be taken as critical, however in the business world I have observed far too many people who talk the talk at every opportunity, then are dishonest in their business pratices, are truly awful when on the highways, and in general their interaction with associates, friends and family is not what one would expect from a Christian, much less a SDA. I am much more impressed with the man or woman who actually incorporates their Christianity thru their day-to-day actions. As Gail said, it should at least be vital to our beings. People will see Christ in us, if He really lives in us. If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Aliensanctuary Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 We shouldn't allow any denomination or organization to define our beliefs for us. Their beliefs have been created and perpetuated by finite, erring human beings, and therefore, may be quite disconnected from ultimate truth. We may not understand what ultimate truth is until it is upon us at the end of time. We might be more accurate if we describe churches as clubs for those who like that particular club and its particular set of rules and beliefs. There are many, many clubs to choose from. The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
JoeMo Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 SivartM - Appreciate the open and honest commentary.
JoeMo Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 AlienSanctuary - Graet Comment. My feelings exactly.
Administrators Gail Posted November 27, 2012 Administrators Posted November 27, 2012 For me it's not so much running from it as being slowly dragged away from it. Placing unwavering faith in books and traditions and philosophical tenets simply because we're taught that they're true just doesn't work well with the modern (really more postmodern) way of thinking that my generation has absorbed. I guess it's your choice whether to see that as the result of degenerate young minds or a sign of hope for a dogma-riddled world. Obviously I'm of the latter opinion. I totally hear ya! What I would like to see more of is that our young people be taught how to connect with heart with God. I say, "taught," although I'm not sure it can be. It is something that is individualised. In my case, it was like Angus T. Jones- I had a longing, a hungering in my heart that was only satisfied by Jesus. The world gave me a emptiness and actually was hurting me. I had a feeling in my heart that God would be my help. This is something that can't easily be explained, but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored. I have learned from the Bible that the heart is the core of our relationship with God, and yet so many of us Adventists have a heart disconnect. Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
JoeMo Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Quote: What I would like to see more of is that our young people be taught how to connect with heart with God. I say, "taught," although I'm not sure it can be. It is something that is individualised. Hi Gail, Connecting with the heart of God can be taught or imparted; but the student has to be willing; and the teacher must already be connected to the heart of God. A teacher can't teach something that they don't know; and a giver can't give away something that don't already don't have. Receiving the heart of God requires an open mind by the receiver. God cannot be put into a box; and the way He manifests Himself to a new receiver may not be in accordance with the box many SDA's put God into. Also, the first few intimate encounters with God are not only INTIMATE, they can be INTIMIDATING. Look at how the prophets and Paul reacted in their initial encounters with God - it was pretty scary. Our God is good; but that doesn't necessarily mean He appears to be safe. That being said, once we get to know the heart of God, we will know He is safe and our loving Daddy!
CoAspen Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Quote: What I would like to see more of is that our young people be taught how to connect with heart with God. I say, "taught," although I'm not sure it can be. The best teaching method is example. That example must come from all a 'young person' comes in contact with. I see the real solution as coming from all us not a particular contact in that experience. I am always amazed how even little children are watching and learning, quick to point out if we don't follow our own words. We can't blame a school system or the .org. Young people today are much more inclined to think and make decisions on their own with out blind acceptance of the 'talk', and I believe that is good. Why? Because when they make a decision it is more likely to be long lasting and heartfelt. This is not to say a person won't have more influence than another, but that consistency of those observations is very important.
CoAspen Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Just look at what topics get the most 'reads', is it about the positive of the christian life or the controversial? Was looking at the # of reads about 'children helping children' vs other topics and wondered if those numbers reflect what our real interest in life are.
Moderators Gerr Posted November 28, 2012 Moderators Posted November 28, 2012 We shouldn't allow any denomination or organization to define our beliefs for us. Their beliefs have been created and perpetuated by finite, erring human beings, and therefore, may be quite disconnected from ultimate truth. We may not understand what ultimate truth is until it is upon us at the end of time. We might be more accurate if we describe churches as clubs for those who like that particular club and its particular set of rules and beliefs. There are many, many clubs to choose from. Well, yes & no. You can't be a member of a church without somehow accepting a well-defined set of beliefs.
LifeHiscost Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: But in a nutshell I left because Adventism did its best to crush my spirit, stunt my growth and damned me everytime I turned around. This is the same charge put in different ways against our Creator Father. It wasn't until I took Jesus' advice to Philip that I began to see that. The same acts of kindness and beneficence given by Jesus when He walked this earth as a Man among men, reflect the God Who is Love. When I realized that He only wanted me to pursue those activities designed by Him that are meant to make the universe safe for all for eternity, as well as working out my best good, and that it was His works in my life that guaranteed my place in His kingdom, that I began to feel secure in my own skin with a healthy respect for something better that He was preparing for me beyond my wildest dreams, and to do those "dos and don'ts" was all I wanted to do except when I selfishly sought after things without regard to how it would help or hinder others peace and security also. " Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."John 14:8-10 NASB God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
Administrators Gail Posted November 30, 2012 Administrators Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: But in a nutshell I left because Adventism did its best to crush my spirit, stunt my growth and damned me everytime I turned around. EC, did you see the thread I started called, The Devil in the Seventh Pew? Please read! There are bad ones in nearly all groups and they don't even need to be Adventist. I commonly say that there is one ornery neighbour in every neighbourhood. But I tell you something, if I saw you right now I would NOT do any of those things named above in your quote. I might pique your spiritual thinking with questions and pepper that with lots of hugs. But I would try hard to treat you as I would like to be treated, and I would try also to do what Jesus did. Promise. And PS- I'm still looking forward to seeing you at Campmeeting one year! Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
LifeHiscost Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: My final statement is this, we need to 'hold hands together' (figuratively for me :0 ) and support each other as well as share with each blessings and experiences we have had. On reflection of the post that held this quote, I the premise even though some of the thought, for my own sake needs whittling on for me to feel comfortable with, as I happen to know that my nature tends to shy away from any demands upon me, even if made by God or His spokespersons, right though they might be. Is there any thinking person that moves easily away from what they already are, and largely because we consider our own judgment about our selves superior than anyone else's opinion. That reveals the same pride that led to Lucifer's fall and subsequently Adam's also, of which most if not all of mankind easily slips into the same mold if not disciplined in a different direction. After all, God's promise is that we shall be a new creation, and whose to say that that new creation doesn't need to start on this fallen planet, at least partially so God and all the universe can see, we really do desire to be made into what God knows we will be supremely happy with, of our own free will, not coerced to accept the rules of the universe, not even coerced by God Himself. We, the human race, cannot even develop conduct of driving inanimate objects like automobiles around, except at the expense of tens of thousands of lives every year. What makes us think we can control ourselves better than our Creator who managed galaxies without any trouble before we came along with our predisposition to get rid of the only Force willing to be patient enough with our free will until we finally get it right. We're not half as wonderful as we think we are. God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: #585282 - 26/11/2012 04:19 God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
BobRyan Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Thanks - :) John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
M. T. Cross Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: But in a nutshell I left because Adventism did its best to crush my spirit, stunt my growth and damned me everytime I turned around. But I tell you something, if I saw you right now I would NOT do any of those things named above in your quote. I might pique your spiritual thinking with questions and pepper that with lots of hugs. But I would try hard to treat you as I would like to be treated, and I would try also to do what Jesus did. Promise. And PS- I'm still looking forward to seeing you at Campmeeting one year! I imagine it would be a great discussion Gail, I would like to think that I might pique your spiritual thinking as well. I love a great spiritual discussion. I would love to walk over the old campground at Hope again sometime. I have some great memories of that place. I actually got my first kiss there LOL
Woody Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Quote: But in a nutshell I left because Adventism did its best to crush my spirit, stunt my growth and damned me everytime I turned around. EC, did you see the thread I started called, The Devil in the Seventh Pew? Please read! There are bad ones in nearly all groups and they don't even need to be Adventist. I commonly say that there is one ornery neighbour in every neighbourhood. But I tell you something, if I saw you right now I would NOT do any of those things named above in your quote. I might pique your spiritual thinking with questions and pepper that with lots of hugs. But I would try hard to treat you as I would like to be treated, and I would try also to do what Jesus did. Promise. And PS- I'm still looking forward to seeing you at Campmeeting one year! Good Comment Gail. I would be so bold to disagree with EC and say that it was not Adventism that crushed him - it was a wrong view of Adventism that crushed him. Also - people with the wrong or hijacked view of Adventism. There - I've stepped out on the limb as far as I fear to tread. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
M. T. Cross Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 I could go into a long thing here Woody about the view of Adventism I experienced. But this thread is not about my personal experience so I'm not going to. But the view I was presented, one that was very much supported by the majority of the congregations I experiences was so very confining and stifling. I watched it eventually destroy my parents as well. So there is a view that I think will drive away many people that grow up in the church. I do understand that it is no longer as across the board as it was when I was a kid, but its still there. I see it quite often here at C/A. I am not bitter about it the way I used to be however because my spiritual journey has led me to wonderful, interesting,fulfilling and sometimes strange places.
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