Robert Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I would only be doing so out of fear of this second death. It would not be out of love or out of a desire to serve or honour him. You are thinking from a Pagan point of view. God isn't the one that will destroy you. You, by your unbelief, destroy yourself. You set yourself outside His love & protection. Read: Deut. 3:17 "Then My wrath (i.e., His reluctant departure from those who persistently and ultimately say "no" to God) will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, 'Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?' What you need to understand is God's love for you: Read
M. T. Cross Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross I would only be doing so out of fear of this second death. It would not be out of love or out of a desire to serve or honour him. You are thinking from a Pagan point of view. Yes I am. Oddly enough that makes sense considering that I am a pagan.
M. T. Cross Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Originally Posted By: EmptyCross I would only be doing so out of fear of this second death. It would not be out of love or out of a desire to serve or honour him. What you need to understand is God's love for you: Read Dude, that guy is all over the place with the way he writes. A whole lot of "Oooooh I want this verse to mean this, so I am gonna make it mean this" EGW almost makes sense compared to him
Robert Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 It's your choice....Ignore your salvation in Christ or accept it. Chose life, friend.
Members phkrause Posted January 19, 2013 Members Posted January 19, 2013 How did sin start? It started with Lucifer not being satisfied with the answers he got to the questions he asked. Well I can very much see that happening if I was there as well. That's not entirely correct, Sin started because Satan wanted the Son's position in Heaven. He wanted to be the next inline to the Father. So he spread gossip so-to-speak that God's law couldn't be kept! That's one reason why the Son came to show us that God's law can be kept. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted January 19, 2013 Members Posted January 19, 2013 Well I can very much see that happening if I was there as well. I would want some solid answers to the things that bug me. If I did not like the answer I would not be satisfied to just accept it. That was a problem the first time someone felt that way - right? God will be answering many question's from many, if not all of us. Many will want to know about creation, evolution, etc., etc. We are told he will answer each and everyone and will be be satisfied. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Robert Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 That's not entirely correct, Sin started because Satan wanted the Son's position in Heaven. When did Eve sin? 1] Before she eat of the fruit or 2] After? Answer: 1 Eve sinned when she distrusted God and decided to go to the tree. As for Lucifer: Ez 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Lucifer became sinful when "iniquity" was found in him. The word “iniquity” in Hebrew means “bent.” That’s the meaning of the word, just “bent.” When applied spiritually it means bent toward self. The moment Lucifer thought of himself instead of others, that moment he sinned. Lucifer sinned long before he coveted Christ's position.
JoeMo Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Quote: Your unbelief will be repaid in the 2nd death. You and you alone are responsible for your destruction. Why not live? Forsake your false gods and allow the God of agape in your life. I've just finished reading thru 6 pages of the thread; and this is one of the most arrogant and self-righteous judgmental statements I have read. Robert, you have quoted "Love thy neighbor as yourself" here more times than I can count; and then you post a hateful judgmental statement like this? Empty Cross may not be a "Christian", but he has more Christian principle than most. He understands that we do what is right because it is right; not because of any spiritual obligation. He also understands that when one makes a mistake (sins), they say "oops!" and move on. If you are so selfless, why do you argue so aggressively to try to prove yourself right? You condemn others for the very thing you are doing. You may not be under God's law; but you are under a law that you and Jackie boy invented and you are so "right" about it that you expect others to follow "the law of Robert"! I don't get it!
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 20, 2013 Administrators Posted January 20, 2013 Moderator Note: I wish to strongly affirm what Joe has just posted as a standing rebuke that bears much emphasis. I was inclined to remove the judgmental post of which he speaks. But I'll leave it as an explicit example of unacceptable incivility. It neither serves to win arguments nor converts to Christianity. And it must not continue. Despite the professed motives of the "christian" debaters here, the overzealously argumentative infighting, and harsh judgmentalism it demonstrates about Adventism/Christianity is sadly one of the best arguments against it. If the tone does not change in this topic, it will be locked. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Robert Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I've just finished reading thru 6 pages of the thread; and this is one of the most arrogant and self-righteous judgmental statements I have read.
Robert Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 He understands that we do what is right because it is right; not because of any spiritual obligation.
Robert Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Gal 4:44 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. "Might receive" means that Christ will not force His deliverance from under law to those who reject His work. Everyone who is currently rejecting Christ is rejecting life. The reason many stay under law is because they are good. They judge themselves by themselves, but God's word is explicit: "There is none righteous, no, not even one". Here's Paul: 2 Cor 5:20 "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Robert Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Despite the professed motives of the "christian" debaters here, the overzealously argumentative infighting, and harsh judgmentalism it demonstrates about Adventism/Christianity is sadly one of the best arguments against it. You are giving unbelievers an excuse to reject Christ over the flaws of Christians (all of us are included). Sorry, that doesn't work in the end. At the judgment seat of Christ no unbeliever will be able to use me or anyone else as excuse for rejecting Christ. It's like folks who get hurt at church by someone then stop attending and many times even give up Christ altogether. What will they say on judgment day that "Rob acted badly so I rejected Christ"? And what will Christ's reply be? I would think something like this: "Rob isn't Me...you learn from Me through My Spirit. Rob isn't your Savior; he isn't the last word. Your nature caused you to reject Me. You made the decision - I persistently tried to turn you around, but you would not. You have destroyed yourself"! In fact that's what Christ told the unbelieving, legalistic Jews: Matt 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would not! 38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD !' "
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 20, 2013 Administrators Posted January 20, 2013 Robert, civility here is not up for debate. Since you seem not to have gotten the point, this topic is locked. Time to step back, take a breather and tone it down. As I said: Moderator Note: I wish to strongly affirm what Joe has just posted as a standing rebuke that bears much emphasis. I was inclined to remove the judgmental post of which he speaks. But I'll leave it as an explicit example of unacceptable incivility. It neither serves to win arguments nor converts to Christianity. And it must not continue. Despite the professed motives of the "christian" debaters here, the overzealously argumentative infighting, and harsh judgmentalism it demonstrates about Adventism/Christianity is sadly one of the best arguments against it. If the tone does not change in this topic, it will be locked. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 You condemn others for the very thing you are doing. You may not be under God's law; but you are under a law that you and Jackie boy invented... I couldn't have said it that good.
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I persistently tried to turn you around, but you would not. You have destroyed yourself"! Isn't the main part of your normal argument, that you don't need to turn around to be saved? Wouldn't that be legalism in your book, needing to turn around?
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