Will the real Jack Sequiera please stand up

[bonnie]

I have studied the Bible extensively Robert. I could do so a million times more and I still don't think I could find your theology in it.

Its a word, but I don't think it is the final one.

You do have to admit it is convenient tho.

If on one hand people with money should be supporting those without, and on the other doing so is self seeking,or helping someone and getting satisfaction from that is a sin,you have a perfect reason for not helping.The sin that self seeking is should be avoided at all costs. Yet refusing to help is self seeking to.So the best solution is to claim that Christ did it all,"which of course he did" and do nothing.That way you have avoided the sin of self seeking and selfishness.

I know you have children.It might be better for them if you tell them what wretched,filthy little creatures without any good in them they are. That seems to be what God would be saying to them.Encouraging them when they obey or do something nice for others would undoubtedly make them self righteous.The wife you pledged your love and loyalty to should be reminded now that you have made that claim you are free to do as you wish.

Maybe improve your relationship to both your wife and children. After all your claim to love them is sufficient.If it is for God what right do they as mortal human beings to expect anything more?

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I have studied the Bible extensively Robert. I could do so a million times more and I still don't think I could find your theology in it.

Its a word, but I don't think it is the final one.

You do have to admit it is convenient tho.

If on one hand people with money should be supporting those without, and on the other doing so is self seeking,or helping someone and getting satisfaction from that is a sin,you have a perfect reason for not helping.The sin that self seeking is should be avoided at all costs. Yet refusing to help is self seeking to.So the best solution is to claim that Christ did it all,"which of course he did" and do nothing.That way you have avoided the sin of self seeking and selfishness.

There is the solution for sure. Lock your self away and put on blinders. Wait for the second coming.

Of course while doing so you are free to cheat on your wife, get high and cheat on your taxes. Because it is in your nature to sin. You have accepted Jesus as your saviour so its all going to be ok. You are free of any accountability at all.

See this is where I have a problem with every religion out there. So many people join up looking to escape any accountability and to make it easier to look in the mirror every day.

[bonnie]

There is the solution for sure. Lock your self away and put on blinders. Wait for the second coming.

Of course while doing so you are free to cheat on your wife, get high and cheat on your taxes. Because it is in your nature to sin. You have accepted Jesus as your saviour so its all going to be ok. You are free of any accountability at all.

See this is where I have a problem with every religion out there. So many people join up looking to escape any accountability and to make it easier to look in the mirror every day.

What you say is true,but hopefully you will come to realize that for what it is and not view all the same.

Some do believe the claims they make carry with it a responsibility and a desire just by making those claims.Some believe the claim relieves them of anything but making that claim.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh I know that there are many that do not use religion for that as well.

Belief structure in of itself is not bad, it is the intent that people go into it with that can be.

[phkrause]

[bonnie]

Oh I know that there are many that do not use religion for that as well.

Belief structure in of itself is not bad, it is the intent that people go into it with that can be.

For a "pagan" you are coming very close to what might be seen as "christian" thinking.LOL "No offense meant"

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Oh I know that there are many that do not use religion for that as well.

Belief structure in of itself is not bad, it is the intent that people go into it with that can be.

For a "pagan" you are coming very close to what might be seen as "christian" thinking.LOL "No offense meant"

In Gwyddonics (my particular brand of paganism) intent is one of the most important things there is.

[Robert]

Gwyddonic web page

I find six very interesting:

"Every Act is motivated by self interest."

That's the essence of Lucifer's kingdom, not God's.

[M. T. Cross]

Gwyddonic web page

I find six very interesting:

"Every Act is motivated by self interest."

That's the essence of Lucifer's kingdom, not God's.

Wrong web site dude. You might want to get your facts straight. That is from a defunct college.

But since you bring it up, yes that is a Gwyddon saying. Its something we work on overcoming. Its one of our main goals as a Gwyddon is to live a life where self and ego do not come first, where the only self that matters is Self Honesty and Self Accountability. Meaning that each of us must face our concept of Self Importance down.

[Robert]

But since you bring it up, yes that is a Gwyddon saying. Its something we work on overcoming.

Well, you will work in vain! And, BTW, that website treats self-interest as a virtue, not something to overcome.

BTW, "The principle that man can save himself by his own works lay at the foundation of every heathen religion." [Ellen G. White, —The Desire of Ages, p. 35.]

Basically you belong to a cult that teaches salvation by works. Who are you kidding?

[M. T. Cross]

Really? Where do you get from that site that self interest is a virtue?

Where do you get the idea that it is something we seek to overcome by our own works?

A cult that teaches salvation by works you say........

Lets look at that.

First lets look at the cult thing. I will highlite in blue the definitions that fit almost every religion in the world - including yours and mine. I will highlight in red the ones that fit the SDA church and in yellow the ones that fit Gwyddonics.

cult

noun

1.

a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2.

an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3.

the object of such devotion.

4.

a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5.

Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Now lets get to the salvation by works.

Gwyddons don't believe in salvation.

[Robert]

Now lets get to the salvation by works.

Gwyddons don't believe in salvation.

What do they believe because what you say, and what the websites say, are two different things? Maybe you should start your own religion. Maybe you are your own Savior?

[M. T. Cross]

I challenge you to find anywhere on that site that says anything about salvation, or any praise of self interest. To top that you have read some bits on a website and you are going to tell me the theology of a religion I have been a part of for years?

I never know Rob Do I laugh at you or pity you......

[Robert]

I challenge you to find anywhere on that site that says anything about salvation, or any praise of self interest.

Read

[Robert]

I never know Rob Do I laugh at you or pity you......

Really, I don't care.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I challenge you to find anywhere on that site that says anything about salvation, or any praise of self interest.

Read

I have.

The word salvation is not mentioned once.

A Christian might say that this world lives under the yoke of Satan. Does that mean they are saying its a virtue?

That site is stating that self interest is the motive for each action. I do not disagree that at our most base nature that is true. The goal is to overcome that.

[Robert]

That site is stating that self interest is the motive for each action. I do not disagree that at our most base nature that is true. The goal is to overcome that.

Well, if you say so....Now, how do you overcome self-interests?

[BobRyan]

Well... there is always the Gospel.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Well sending cash would do the job better cause with a cheque there are ways to find out who it came from.

But fine - thats a decent example.

The problem for some is they cannot conceive of others helping just because there is a need.There has to be some motive behind it,maybe because that is an excuse they use for not helping. I don't have to and besides.....

It is not always possible to help someone anonymously but that seems to be what is required.

You understand the concept of helping someone just because you see a need.You don't want a pat on the back,recognition,or praise.One thing you have to be careful of tho is not to feel a since of happiness at being able to help another.That means it is the motive for doing so in the first place.

For those that believe the bible it says,"God loves a cheerful giver'

For some that means you are "self seeking"

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this thread, except for the bolded sentence.

Here's why. Read John 15: 10,11. From this it is clear that God has built into the gospel the concept that we will become joyful from following God's commandments.

There is a difference in being happy because God gives us happiness(joy) for being obedient to Him, and doing something just because we experience happiness from something. Let us not reject God's blessings.

[phkrause]

joeb, I think your missing Bonnie's point. You need to read the posts that she's referring to.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

That site is stating that self interest is the motive for each action. I do not disagree that at our most base nature that is true. The goal is to overcome that.

Well, if you say so....Now, how do you overcome self-interests?

From a Gwyddon standpoint?

Realizing that all things are connected and that all things are one.

Think of it this way - the omlet theory.

An omlet is a single entity unto its self. You see it on your plate and its an omlet. So this is the All.

But if you inspect that omlet you will find eggs, cheese, meat, veggies or different types, there may be milk hidden in there etc.But its still an omlet.

So when you come to realize that while you might be a fine salty bacon bit, it doesn't matter. In the end you are a part of an omlet.

So the first step is realizing that your existence is no more important than the guy down the street, the air that you breath, the worm fertilizing the ground. You are a contributor to the all, a part of it, but to think your role is more important than anything elses is folly.

So once you get past self importance, self intrest does not become that relevant. Then you start to LIVE. You enjoy everything because you are part of it and it is part of you. When you do something for someone its because its part of the experience. Its not because it is expected, its because it is because you want to make the All better - for each part of it. Yes it will reflect back on you in one way or another. Thats fine and one should enjoy that.

[joeb]

joeb, I think your missing Bonnie's point. You need to read the posts that she's referring to.

Well, anything is possible. I re-read the post and don't see what you mean. I guess you need to show me what I'm missing.

[Guest]

I never know Rob Do I laugh at you or pity you......

You will have opportunity for both. :)

[Robert]

But that's not agape....Apparently you can't manufacture God's love.

[M. T. Cross]

Ummm... Robbie, you asked how to overcome self interest, not about agape or manufacturing love......