Guest Posted April 24, 2013 Posted April 24, 2013 That's a very interesting story, Tony. Thanks for sharing it. Quote
Gibs Posted April 24, 2013 Posted April 24, 2013 Yes of course Jesus had both natures, but neither made Him to either be a sinner or to be a God. He of course overcame as one of us from where we are and as a man and not as God. Satan we know monitored this closely and if He had of reached within of His Fathers indwelling Deity all would have been lost. The power He only could use was of the first Adam with the deficit of taking on Him our fallen nature. He overcame as one of us fallen ones! Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. He was God with us for the simple reason His Father dwelt in Him all fullness! The Father will no longer be divided when the sin and rebellion problem is resolved! 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. You should read verses 1 Cor 15:24,25,26,27 before 28. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Gustave Posted April 25, 2013 Posted April 25, 2013 I thought they believed Jesus acquired a divine nature in much the same way we acquired a human one. That being said, my mom and dad did not "loan" me my human nature and have no ability to strip me of it. As to God and His Son? I kind'a think it works the same. Would God the Father have Glory w/out His Divine Nature? Quote
epaminondas Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 How to read the Bible Look at this. It has nothing to do with the Trinity. Quote
o2bwise Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 Gustave, Your question is so speculative, I am unsure how to answer - or even if I should! My guess is that if we allow that CHARACTER is a subset of "glory," then yes. Quote Iconoclasts Anonymous Self Help
Dr. Waite Posted April 27, 2013 Posted April 27, 2013 How to read the Bible Look at this. It has nothing to do with the Trinity. Jesus Christ said: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." If Jesus Christ meant that "God is a unity of three co-eternal persons", He would have used different words, but the fact is that He did not use different words. Quote grw
Gibs Posted April 27, 2013 Posted April 27, 2013 Amen, Dr. Waite, Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
epaminondas Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 Originally Posted By: epaminondas How to read the Bible Look at this. It has nothing to do with the Trinity. Jesus Christ said: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." If Jesus Christ meant that "God is a unity of three co-eternal persons", He would have used different words, but the fact is that He did not use different words. Simple and true. The trinitarian dogma is so way-out, completely unsupported by Biblical fact and so easily refuted that the fact that it's existed for so long and is so widely accepted is really an indictment against the intelligence of Christians. Quote
o2bwise Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Quote: epaminondas:is really an indictment against the intelligence of Christians. Nah. I am only using this to make a point. Take 9-11. There are many people, including myself, who saw what happened and thought, "Wow, we did it again!" (Meaning the United States carried out 9-11.) If you took a demographic analysis of those who believe as I do about 9-11 and of those who believe what has been fed to them by the MSM (mainstream media), I am quite sure differences in intelligence would not be evident. It's the whole traversing paradigms thing. Being able to take red pills. Which is why Babylon's wine is intoxicating. Intoxication does not suggest lack of intelligence. Just my opinion... Tony Quote Iconoclasts Anonymous Self Help
Moderators LynnDel Posted April 29, 2013 Moderators Posted April 29, 2013 If you are interested in a calm, reasoned discussion by Adventists of two sides of the trinity question, see live video presentations today at 3 and 4 pm PDT at www.bibleexplorations.com. The first part was yesterday, and the third part will be the same time tomorrow. I believe that on Wednesday morning they have a round table discussion. LD Quote LD
Ted Oplinger Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 If you are interested in a calm, reasoned discussion by Adventists of two sides of the trinity question, see live video presentations today at 3 and 4 pm PDT at www.bibleexplorations.com. The first part was yesterday, and the third part will be the same time tomorrow. I believe that on Wednesday morning they have a round table discussion. LD Thanks, LynnDel! The subject does interest me, and I'd like to see that discussion. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
epaminondas Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Quote: If you took a demographic analysis of those who believe as I do about 9-11 and of those who believe what has been fed to them by the MSM (mainstream media), I am quite sure differences in intelligence would not be evident. I'm no fan of politicians and the armed forces, but your 9-11 goes beyond even what they would do in self interest. We had two years National Service in the armed forces. I was a two-pip lieutenant (medical officer) during my time. I've seen some true psychopaths who found a home in the army, but they were few. I've also seen some decent people who were completely normal. And then the more or less disturbed ones - there were plenty of those. There were very few who would have gone along with a whole-sale slaughter to achieve something. Furthermore, something as big as the organization needed to bring off 9-11 cannot be kept secret forever - too many people were involved. There are the morons who contend the English Secret Service had Diana and Dodi killed. How did they convince them not to wear seat belts? And how hard is this: It is absolutely essential for the trinitarian dogma that both Jesus and the Holy spirit are true god/s. Jesus said only the Father is true God. Therefore, either Jesus was wrong, or the trinitarian dogma is wrong. The above is beyond dispute and very simple and clear. What do you call people who can't even see something so simple and clear? Quote
epaminondas Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 If you are interested in a calm, reasoned discussion by Adventists of two sides of the trinity question, see live video presentations today at 3 and 4 pm PDT at www.bibleexplorations.com. The first part was yesterday, and the third part will be the same time tomorrow. I believe that on Wednesday morning they have a round table discussion.LD No prizes for guessing what the conclusion is going to be. Quote
Moderators LynnDel Posted April 30, 2013 Moderators Posted April 30, 2013 Quote: No prizes for guessing what the conclusion is going to be. I do not believe they are aiming for a conclusion. The stated aim is to share beliefs, see where they diverge, and determine if there are long-cherished beliefs that should be set aside. Quote LD
Gibs Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. So guess who you had best look to for an answer that is the truth! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
o2bwise Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Hi epam, OK, my analogy did not work for you. I still think the issue is one of intoxication and not a lack of intelligence. Quote Iconoclasts Anonymous Self Help
Members phkrause Posted April 30, 2013 Members Posted April 30, 2013 Quote: No prizes for guessing what the conclusion is going to be. I do not believe they are aiming for a conclusion. The stated aim is to share beliefs, see where they diverge, and determine if there are long-cherished beliefs that should be set aside. LD, some are not interested in sharing what they believe, just telling you its there way or your an idiot. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Ted Oplinger Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 LD, some are not interested in sharing what they believe, just telling you it's their way or you're an idiot. Agreed, PK. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Moderators Gerr Posted April 30, 2013 Moderators Posted April 30, 2013 LD, some are not interested in sharing what they believe, just telling you its there way or your an idiot. Or drunk! Quote
Gibs Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Well it still remains, if one wants it from the one and only true source on this, here is the one to listen to from His Word and He did plainly reveal it! Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him . 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Members phkrause Posted April 30, 2013 Members Posted April 30, 2013 Originally Posted By: pkrause LD, some are not interested in sharing what they believe, just telling you its there way or your an idiot. Or drunk! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators LynnDel Posted April 30, 2013 Moderators Posted April 30, 2013 I am glad that these presentations are given with a good spirit and that the presenters do not disparage each other's characters -- unlike much of what I have seen here! I never can understand why insults have to be part of the mix when there are differing points of view. LD Quote LD
Guest Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 I am glad that these presentations are given with a good spirit and that the presenters do not disparage each other's characters -- unlike much of what I have seen here! I never can understand why insults have to be part of the mix when there are differing points of view. LD You do have a point there, LynnDel. Quote
Guest Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Or drunk! You're not drinking are you? Is Robert over there? I hope not, this could get ugly. ) Quote
epaminondas Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 Quote: No prizes for guessing what the conclusion is going to be. I do not believe they are aiming for a conclusion. The stated aim is to share beliefs, see where they diverge, and determine if there are long-cherished beliefs that should be set aside.Even so, there's going to be a conclusion, explicit or implied. They're not going to come out saying something like "it's a personal choice" or "the non-trinitarian position really has the strongest Biblical backing" or "from Biblical evidence, the trinitarian position should be rejected." You can borrow on your house and put all the money on an outcome where the trinitarian position will be vindicated. Only, you won't find a bookmaker even willing to give you 1:1 odds on that. Quote
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