Is this truthful or it is just an exaggeration?

[phkrause]

Make it 3 or more...

It is totally preposterous to me that the God of love - the God who IS Love - would send a tornado to "punish" people.

Are you sure JoeMo? Didn't some mayor of New Orleans say God sent a Hurricane to his city because of the same reason? Its unreal to me how anyone can say these things or even suggest them. Sad, very sad. Anyway make it 4 or more...

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I do apologize for sounding rude and insensitive.

Felix -

Look at God the father as a real Father; and look at jesus as a real Big Brother.

Would a "good" Father and a "good" Big Brotheer bring disaster upon us? I don't think so. Might they let us learn a lesson by suffering the physical consequences of our sins? Maybe ... but I don't think death is part of that lesson.

[Guest]

Might they let us learn a lesson by suffering the physical consequences of our sins? Maybe ... but I don't think death is part of that lesson.

JoeMo, I think you just went too far the other way. The Bible is full of examples where God used death to teach a lesson.

And people die every day as a physical consequence of their sins.

[Felix Florimon]

Quote:

Make that at least a majority of 2 my friend.

Make it 3 or more...

It is totally preposterous to me that the God of love - the God who IS Love - would send a tornado to "punish" people.

[Gail]

Thanks from me, too, Ted.

Think about the priests in the days of David and Saul (Abimelech?) who were slaughtered due to the wrath of a king who went insane. Evil as well as good happens to both sides, although I am not discounting God's wrath upon a people whose time of judgment has come. But my heart relates to David upon hearing the news of the death of Saul and Jonathan. He mourned the decline and passing on one whom the Lord had anointed, evil and backslidden as Saul turned in the end.

I feel that evil has its own just rewards. Very often that translates into a short, troubled life. There may be a time for condemnation, but I would rather present Jesus as the Saviour and offer life. Not all will accept it, most likely most people will reject it, but the joy that emanates from a grateful heart is well worth the effort to win it.

If the wicked reject an offer of peace through Christ, then as I see it we could at least show them mercy for as long as their lives last here on earth. That will be the best they ever get.

[Felix Florimon]

There was a video on youtube a few years back that was this woman praising the Christian God for the huge earthquake in Japan. She said it was his punishment for all the people there that follow the Shinto and Buddhist religions. She praised him for their deaths. Felix here is not quite that bad (that we see) but not that far behind.

Neither you, the lady you quoted or myself have any right to quote this lady as a Christian without quoting Bible verses in which Jesus Christ would encourage to praise God for the death of those that don't believe in Him.

Now it is possible for you to feel that I am not far behind that lady because you and I have not attended together the same Sabbath School lessons in which we would personally discuss with fellow brothers and sisters the great love that God has for non repented sinners. Moreover, it is obvious that we don't share the same vision written the New Testament regarding what Jesus teaches on how His followers should interact with those who know nothing about a loving Creator and Redeemer of the human race and just prefer to live a sinful life.

FF

[bonnie]

Multiple times I have gone to the Adventist ABC bookstore in downtown Manhattan (New York City) and, by accident, I have come across this "gay pride parade." Honestly, when that has happened, my mind is filled with mixed feelings of emotional pain and indignation because when I see them parading it reminds me of innocent people being afflicted with AIDS, hepatitis B & C by promiscuous sex partners, broken family ties in which children don't have the opportunity to grow up with a biologic father and mother that would teach them love for God and country; they don't have any respect for the idea of family formation with real biologic ties when people are emotionally, psychologically and economically able to bring children to this world. When I see them, it reminds me of the horrendous crime gangs in New Orleans and San Francisco with loss of natural affection where many people have lost their friends due to homicide or drug abuse. Honestly, during those gay pride parades, there are many unplanned spectators praying to God that those people may come to their senses because they don't have a right to live a risky life style that is a biologic health danger to themselves and to those they experience and intimate relationship with. We should be thankful to God that He only allows a tornado to take place only when there would be a minimum loss of lives (relatively speaking) and only when you don't have people asking God to help them live a life bringing honor to His name.

FF

In May of 1965 we were totally wiped out in a tornado.Our area looked like the pictures of OK. The severity was unusual for MN. It is referred to as the night without end because one tornado after another formed all night long.

Do you think this was because of the deviant people that lived in that area?

I don't believe God sent the tornado. Nor do I think those that died did so because they were evil and God had to wipe them out and teach the rest a lesson

[Felix Florimon]

Fine, great, I don't buy it but that cause I am not a Christian. That said, that has noting to do with tornado's being a punishment from God.

I find it ironic, even though you admit being a not Christian. However, just based on what we are able to read regarding what Jesus says on how His followers should interact with those who don't wish to put in practice Jesus' teaching, we are able to find out that in spite of how horrible a tornado, a hurricane, an earthquake or a tsunami could be in destroying human lives, the killings of fellow humans done by those who have not interest in living up to Jesus teachings is much more worse than the killings that we see with natural disasters. I hope and pray that I don't sound rude and insensitive to you but all of those who wish to do just all the opposite of what Jesus has taught are a much a greater danger to the welfare and future of human civilization than all tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and tsunami put together. This is what makes me really believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not just a matter of eternal life in a distant future. It is also a matter of a spiritual and civil lifestyle here on earth where all people have real freedom to worship and believe in God according to their own conscience and according to God's Holy Spirit leading them in their own minds.

I really feel sorry for sounding rude and insensitive but all those who just wish to do the opposite of Jesus' teaching are putting themselves and the rest of the world on a path of self destruction. I do really hope and pray that God could give someone the ability to have a much nicer language in order to make others to really understand that "...the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

FF

[Felix Florimon]

In May of 1965 we were totally wiped out in a tornado.Our area looked like the pictures of OK. The severity was unusual for MN. It is referred to as the night without end because one tornado after another formed all night long.

Do you think this was because of the deviant people that lived in that area?

I don't believe God sent the tornado. Nor do I think those that died did so because they were evil and God had to wipe them out and teach the rest a lesson

When we read Hebrews 12:5-11, we are going to find out that God has a much different perception of adversity than we normally do. Through the experience of Job and Jesus, we learn that God sees adversity as a means to establish a closer and a much more trustworthy relationship with Him and as a means to instruct non believers to do likewise. According to what we find in the New Testament, God sees every perverse sinner as a potential victory of Jesus' sacrifice for snatching him/her out the claws of the Devil so he/she could enjoy eternal life.

When God allows any of His followers to die is because He knows that he or she is sealed for salvation. When a sinner dies then God is under judgment. We will have to spend 1,000 years after the first resurrection and just before the second resurrection in order to ask all the questions we have in mind to the angels taking care of us on this side of eternity in order to truly become well conscious and truly sure that we really serve a wonderful, rightful and truly loving God.

FF

[Naomi]

Okay, here I go AGAIN!!

Felix said:

Quote:

Honestly, during those gay pride parades, there are many unplanned spectators praying to God that those people may come to their senses because they don't have a right to live a risky life style that is a biologic health danger to themselves and to those they experience and intimate relationship with. We should be thankful to God that He only allows a tornado to take place only when there would be a minimum loss of lives (relatively speaking) and only when you don't have people asking God to help them live a life bringing honor to His name.

How rude and insensitive can one person be?

I repeat myself ... Felix I wish you many blessings and pray for you. I also pray that nothing ever happens to damage your world or your vision of your spirituality.

I ask again, how do you know that there are not/were not people in OKC who ask God to help those whose lives are not being lived according to the teaching of our Lord? Because those who do not live according to God's plan are not bashed but are given a choice as to their life-style (Did not God give us all free-will)Does not mean that many people do not pray for them. For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God

Why would you be so self-assured to even suggest that God would allow something like the weather patterns to take lives in the heartland to save many more in NYC? Are you/yours more religious than others?

Now I admit that your statements make my blood run HOT. YOU are judging and talking about people who I know personally, friends and relatives who lost everything. Yes lives were lost, and many other broken bones, cuts etc.

As for people praying/not praying, how dare you sit in judgment!

Oh yes, Gay Rights ... that area is one of the least accepting of the G&L Community in the nation. Okay, so perhaps you have a clearer connection with God and His choice of punishment than I. I personally do not try to out think God, therefore you may be right if you think God would take out a few hicks from the Heartland to save you and the masses in New York City because of a Gay Rights movement. If that be true than my love of the Lord and belief in His love and justice is sorely misplaced. Forgive me Father.

The subject Truthful or exaggeration is IMHO an EXAGGERATION.

[cricket]

Felix, I'm pretty sure they're still looking for people to lend a helping hand to these people who have been affected by the tornadoes. Got a hand to lend?

[Naomi]

To be sure

[Felix Florimon]

I repeat myself ... Felix I wish you many blessings and pray for you. I also pray that nothing ever happens to damage your world or your vision of your spirituality.

I ask again, how do you know that there are not/were not people in OKC who ask God to help those whose lives are not being lived according to the teaching of our Lord? Because those who do not live according to God's plan are not bashed but are given a choice as to their life-style (Did not God give us all free-will)Does not mean that many people do not pray for them. For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God

Why would you be so self-assured to even suggest that God would allow something like the weather patterns to take lives in the heartland to save many more in NYC? Are you/yours more religious than others?

Now I admit that your statements make my blood run HOT. YOU are judging and talking about people who I know personally, friends and relatives who lost everything. Yes lives were lost, and many other broken bones, cuts etc.

As for people praying/not praying, how dare you sit in judgment!

Oh yes, Gay Rights ... that area is one of the least accepting of the G&L Community in the nation. Okay, so perhaps you have a clearer connection with God and His choice of punishment than I. I personally do not try to out think God, therefore you may be right if you think God would take out a few hicks from the Heartland to save you and the masses in New York City because of a Gay Rights movement. If that be true than my love of the Lord and belief in His love and justice is sorely misplaced. Forgive me Father.

The subject Truthful or exaggeration is IMHO an EXAGGERATION.

Regretfully, we live in a very inter-dependent world. When a drunk bus driver has an accident, many innocent passengers who would never dare to drink one drop of alcohol could easily die in such accident. The same thing happens in real life. Based on documented experience of people, we should also consider people as "passengers travelling together under the guidance of their human leaders" from point A to point B on a highway "labeled human experience" that travels through time and space. A non biblical writer once said that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." The Apostle Paul wrote about this using different words. He wrote: "For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope" (Romans 15:4). Now, when the political leaders of such group of people don't have a clean spiritual vision to see ahead, the end result of potential bad decisions is that all people being guided by them will suffer bad consequences of such decisions including God's ability to protect them because they came out of God's protective spiritual jurisdiction. This is why, in ancient Israel, King Ahab was so disgusted with Elijah because this prophet dared to link a drought (bringing real human suffering to many people in Israel) to the way the king and his wife disregarded obedience to God. We need to remember that during such drought many faithful followers of God also suffered the famine brought by this natural disaster including prophet Elijah himself. Likewise, when the leaders of a community defy what God says in His word, we should never be surprised that even God's children suffer the bad consequences of losing God's protection. Now comes the question: Do we serve an evil God because He allows His children to suffer the consequences of the bad decisions of their leaders? The answer is not. This is because we believe in a God that took human shape in order to also suffer the consequences of the bad decisions of the political and religious leaders when He walked as a human on this earth. This is why God has allowed many of His children to suffer the consequence of the bad decision of others. We need to be reminded that we are in the midst of a battle between evil, sin and God's justice. In the middle of such battle many people will literally get broken bones, many will lose everything including their physical lives. However, when we get to other side of eternity, after everything has been said and done, we will truly understand that God would have never guided us on a different path than the one we would have chosen if we had the ability of knowing the end from the beginning.

FF

[Felix Florimon]

Felix, I'm pretty sure they're still looking for people to lend a helping hand to these people who have been affected by the tornadoes. Got a hand to lend?

At this time I don't have an extra helping hand to give because my hands are too busy working in New York. However, I would be more than happy to first pray and then send a check to your church or Naomi's church because she personally knows the people who have suffered a great deal and she is better suited than myself to really give words of real empathy and condolence to the people suffering there. I truly believe that the words of consolation and empathy from Naomi would be more suited to help those victims than anything I could ever say or physically do in that place. Nonetheless, I truly pray for myself and for all of you that we could all truly learn to live up to Jesus' expectation when He said “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35.

I would be more that happy if you or Naomi could come up with a way that I could either send a check to your church or make some arrangement with ClubAdventist to send some donation to people you know to really need it or to pay a worker so he or she could do a little more than he or she has being doing to benefit those who are suffering in Oklahoma.

FF

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Nor do I think those that died did so because they were evil and God had to wipe them out and teach the rest a lesson

"As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him."

John 9:1-3 NASB

God cares!

[Naomi]

Tell you what Felix ... you can keep your money!

[Felix Florimon]

Unless we have a prophet who specifically messages from God that a disaster is indeed signal from God, we do well to refrain from such correlations.

[Felix Florimon]

Tell you what Felix ... you can keep your money!

I had a feeling that "cricket" and you were just kidding when I was being requested to personally go to Oklahoma to "lend a hand." However, I personally don't feel comfortable with people making jokes regarding my own willingness and ability to help those who are suffering. Therefore, I just tried to "hold my breath" and give some credibility to what he posted in a way that could really be helpful to those that are concerned enough to help the victims of the Oklahoma tornado with their own physical presence and help.

FF

[Felix Florimon]

"As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him."

John 9:1-3 NASB

God cares!

This is really how we should finally look at things; it is not my own sins versus the sins of others when we or other people suffer that we should put our focus on. What we should put our focus on is the glory of God bringing us and and bringing in to others healing and salvation when we are willing to listen and pay attention to God like this poor blind man did when Jesus asked Him to do certain things before His vision was restored.

FF

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Naomi

Tell you what Felix ... you can keep your money!

I had a feeling that "cricket" and you were just kidding when I was being requested to personally go to Oklahoma to "lend a hand." However, I personally don't feel comfortable with people making jokes regarding my own willingness and ability to help those who are suffering. Therefore, I just tried to "hold my breath" and give some credibility to what he posted in a way that could really be helpful to those that are concerned enough to help the victims of the Oklahoma tornado with their own physical presence and help.

FF

Can't speak for Cricket but I was serious ... if you go and help you might develop a more compassionate attitude and have a knowledge of perhaps even ONE praying person. You know, like those in the crowds in your city that protect God from spewing His wrath upon those marching for Gay Rights ... we/they can do without your money.

Oh and PLEASE don't allow anything we might say about you and your vocalized beliefs make you feel uncomfortable! I am impressed that you "held your breath" Now tell me, what is it that you said you are doing which keeps you so busy helping your own people?

[Naomi]

If you would not be offended in sharing a couple of rather personal bits of information, I am just wondering ....

How old are you?

Where did you study for your divinity degree

I would love to one day be so sure of my self and my knowledge of the mind of God & Sis. White that I could better understand the natural and man-made problems in our world. Therefore, if you would be so kind as to share with me how & where I can obtain this kind of understanding ....

[cricket]

Donate Here

[cricket]

Actually, I was't kidding either. There's nothing to joke about. People are in desperate need of real, physical help. I realize that many people cannot be bothered to take time off from their employment to come and help, but reading page-after-page descriptions of how this is an "opportunity" to start praying and loving our fellow man is unsettling when there's so much work to be done! What love is there when your fellow man has lost his home, his dog, his nephew and his family's sense of well-being and security and you sit and do nothing more than pray that he'll get help (and even go so far as to suggest that he wasn't prayerful enough in the first place)?

[debbym]

Quote:

We should be thankful to God that He only allows a tornado to take place only when there would be a minimum loss of lives (relatively speaking) and only when you don't have people asking God to help them live a life bringing honor to His name.

the sun shines on the good and the bad, the tornadoes blow on the righteous and unrighteous.

the first of the plagues of Egypt fell on Egyptian and Hebrew slaves alike.

God is no respecter of persons.

very bad things happen to people who are Godly, look at Job.

the sun shines on the good and the bad, God deeply loves us all.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

all of those who wish to do just all the opposite of what Jesus has taught are a much a greater danger to the welfare and future of human civilization than all tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and tsunami put together.

Interesting thought. I read just the opposite in the Bible - like when God would have spared Sodom and Gomorrah if there were only 10 righteous people to be found. It seems like the righteous could have saved the wicked - not the other way around. (Gen. 18:16-33). Didn't Jesus also say that the time of tribulation whould be cut short for the sale of the righteous? (Matt. 24:22 and Mark 13:20). I don't know about the god you serve, but the God I serve is a God of love, mercy and grace. It was the kindness of God that wooed me to salvation; not the fear of His wrath that scared me into it.