Is this truthful or it is just an exaggeration?

[LifeHiscost]

Ok, I give up. Who are you quoting here, Life?

That was Naomi. She made some very salient points, not to mention

important for a happy and balanced life with a Friend and Brother in the Kingdom. Oh! And did I mention, also the King of kings.

God cares!

[Guest]

I don't believe God destroys as I believe it is contrary to His nature.

Uh-oh

[LifeHiscost]

I don't believe God destroys as I believe it is contrary to His nature.

God recovers, heals, restores.

Sin and sinners destroy.

For the most part that's true, but for at least one time, God takes full responsibility for getting rid of the cancer in what was once a perfect universe.

"For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim,

He will be stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon,

To do His task, His unusual task,

And to work His work, His extraordinary work.

And now do not carry on as scoffers,

Or your fetters will be made stronger;

For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts

Of decisive destruction on all the earth."

Isaiah 28:21-23 NASB

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: o2bwise

I don't believe God destroys as I believe it is contrary to His nature.

God recovers, heals, restores.

Sin and sinners destroy.

For the most part that's true, but for at least one time, God takes full responsibility for getting rid of the cancer in what was once a perfect universe.

"For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim,

He will be stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon,

To do His task, His unusual task,

And to work His work, His extraordinary work.

And now do not carry on as scoffers,

Or your fetters will be made stronger;

For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts

Of decisive destruction on all the earth."

Isaiah 28:21-23 NASB

Then there's the night the angel of the Lord destroyed the entire 100,000 strong army of Sennacharib when he had Jerusalem surrounded.

[Ted Oplinger]

JoeB,

There are several places where people's rebellion against God is answered with both severe, and even the ultimate, direct negative consequences.

Man did not send the Flood which destroyed the Antidiluvian world - God did. By His own admission, He claimed the responsibility for drowning not just every person not getting onto the Ark, but all life not found within the Ark.

In Numbers 11, the people whined for flesh in such a negative way, the Lord slew by a plague many, and the rest got really sick. in the very next chapter, Miriam - Moses' own sister - is struck by the Lord with advanced leprosy for her own murmuring against God's appointing of Moses to lead.

The last 7 plagues in Revelation 16 are commanded by God to be poured over an unrepentant world, causing unparalleled destruction and suffering.

God does indeed have to take very drastic measures to both contain - then destroy - sin, and to protect His Creation being redeemed by the Blood of His Son.

Food for thought.

[joeb]

JoeB,

There are several places where people's rebellion against God is answered with both severe, and even the ultimate, direct negative consequences.

Man did not send the Flood which destroyed the Antidiluvian world - God did. By His own admission, He claimed the responsibility for drowning not just every person not getting onto the Ark, but all life not found within the Ark.

In Numbers 11, the people whined for flesh in such a negative way, the Lord slew by a plague many, and the rest got really sick. in the very next chapter, Miriam - Moses' own sister - is struck by the Lord with advanced leprosy for her own murmuring against God's appointing of Moses to lead.

The last 7 plagues in Revelation 16 are commanded by God to be poured over an unrepentant world, causing unparalleled destruction and suffering.

God does indeed have to take very drastic measures to both contain - then destroy - sin, and to protect His Creation being redeemed by the Blood of His Son.

Food for thought.

I agree, Ted. God has often directly destroyed humans. And then He has ordered His people to destroy other humans who have passed the limits He has placed on their disobedience. There are several instances of this in the OT.

I just happened to give the instance of God destroying Sennacherib's army as a "for instance" doing what o2bwise didn't believe God does. Love does not preclude God doing what in His infinite knowledge and mercy He sees as the right thing to do.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Love does not preclude God doing what in His infinite knowledge and mercy He sees as the right thing to do.

I'm not sure I have a good handle on God's wrath, other than "God is Love", never changes, which leaves no room for arbitrary decisions on His part, ie: His decisions are always within the parameters of that Love.

“I am the Lord, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed."

Malachi 3:6 NLT

"Then Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”"

Exodus 33:18-20 NASB

God cares!

[joeb]

Quote:

Love does not preclude God doing what in His infinite knowledge and mercy He sees as the right thing to do.

I'm not sure I have a good handle on God's wrath, other than "God is Love", never changes, which leaves no room for arbitrary decisions on His part, ie: His decisions are always within the parameters of that Love.

“I am the Lord, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed."

Malachi 3:6 NLT

"Then Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”"

Exodus 33:18-20 NASB

God cares!

Did God order the destruction of the Caananites? Did He kill the 100,000 man army of Sennacharib? Did God tell Saul, though Samuel, to kill all of the Amalekites, including their livestock? Did not God order Moses to have the children of Isreal destroy king Og of Bashan along with all of his people, as they had done with king Sihon of the Amorites and his people? (Numbers 21:34,35)

God's love did not stop Him from either killing directly, or ordering the killing of, all of these peoples. So, God must have seen something that needed to be done in all of these instances, and He did it, not withstanding His love.

[Guest]

Preach on, joeb!

[Guest]

There are several places where people's rebellion against God is answered with both severe, and even the ultimate, direct negative consequences.

Man did not send the Flood which destroyed the Antidiluvian world - God did. By His own admission, He claimed the responsibility for drowning not just every person not getting onto the Ark, but all life not found within the Ark.

In Numbers 11, the people whined for flesh in such a negative way, the Lord slew by a plague many, and the rest got really sick. in the very next chapter, Miriam - Moses' own sister - is struck by the Lord with advanced leprosy for her own murmuring against God's appointing of Moses to lead.

The last 7 plagues in Revelation 16 are commanded by God to be poured over an unrepentant world, causing unparalleled destruction and suffering.

God does indeed have to take very drastic measures to both contain - then destroy - sin, and to protect His Creation being redeemed by the Blood of His Son.

Food for thought.

Good food too, I might add. :)

[Felix Florimon]

Two huge issues concerning the Lazarus v. tornado analogy:

1) Felix is NOT Jesus

[Felix Florimon]

Felix, I have not, nor would I ever question your personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ ... and I must say I am so sorry that I am attempting to communicate with a person so bold as to question, analyze or judge mine!!!

[Felix Florimon]

Could anyone prove this non Adventist preacher that he is wrong when he thinks that this DOMA Supreme Strike down Could Lead to Loss of Non-Profit Status for Traditional Religions?

Is he accurate when he stated that: Temperatures could reach 130F as heat wave hits western US 06/29/13; would this be consistent with an "exacerbation an ominous axis of natural of instability" that makes sin to become more closely associated with human pain and suffering?

http://defendproclaimthefaith.org/blog/?p=4649 (for further information).

FF

[Naomi]

Okay Felix, I concede that you are 100% correct and that I had no right to even comment on your divine insight and knowledge.

Now will you get off my case?!!

Oh, I have successfully held more than one public office ... just sain'

[Gordon1]

Hi Felix,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've not read them all due to time, but they're obviously a little contentious.

I'm not sure how many wake up calls we will receive. Calgary, a major city and economic engine for the Canadian oil business, was swamped by a catastrophic flood last week. I believe 200,000 were evacuated initially. I've seen a couple of disasters on the billion dollar scale. In the West we "recover" fairly quickly, with surprisingly little loss of life. So far. Other places face death by many thousands or more - volcanoes, flooding, starvation by drought.

But we recover (most of us) because of expensive infrastructure like search and rescue teams, national Guard, modern hospitals, robust power grids and water sanitation...a long list. Many homeowners have SUVs, chainsaws, boats, nearby fire hydrants...Overall, we're well equipped. There is always a nearby neighbour, county or state to give aid. At some point that will all be overwhelmed.

[M. T. Cross]

Hi Felix,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've not read them all due to time, but they're obviously a little contentious.

I'm not sure how many wake up calls we will receive. Calgary, a major city and economic engine for the Canadian oil business, was swamped by a catastrophic flood last week. I believe 200,000 were evacuated initially. I've seen a couple of disasters on the billion dollar scale. In the West we "recover" fairly quickly, with surprisingly little loss of life. So far. Other places face death by many thousands or more - volcanoes, flooding, starvation by drought.

But we recover (most of us) because of expensive infrastructure like search and rescue teams, national Guard, modern hospitals, robust power grids and water sanitation...a long list. Many homeowners have SUVs, chainsaws, boats, nearby fire hydrants...Overall, we're well equipped. There is always a nearby neighbour, county or state to give aid. At some point that will all be overwhelmed.

And this has been the history of the world. Entire civilizations have been wiped out by natural disasters. The planet is a volatile and fragile yet powerful thing. Living organisms on this planet are at its mercy.

[Felix Florimon]

Okay Felix, I concede that you are 100% correct and that I had no right to even comment on your divine insight and knowledge.

Now will you get off my case?!!

[M. T. Cross]

Ahhh - a sure sign the weekend is here! Felix is posting. Hope your week was fulfilling and productive Felix.

[Felix Florimon]

Ahhh - a sure sign the weekend is here! Felix is posting. Hope your week was fulfilling and productive Felix.

Thank you

FF

[Felix Florimon]

And this has been the history of the world. Entire civilizations have been wiped out by natural disasters. The planet is a volatile and fragile yet powerful thing. Living organisms on this planet are at its mercy.

In this instance, I would tell that you are both: 100% right and also 100% wrong.

Now, some people may wonder how can any person be 100% right while being also 100% wrong while holding any particular view? The problem is that any particular truth is not self-dependent on itself but it is fully dependent on different factors bringing any truth to a reality that we are able really perceive.

Let's start with why you are 100% right. You are 100% right because what you wrote is fully supported by historical facts and archeological data that could be corroborated by independent observers regardless of what opinion they may have regarding such issue. This is what I have personally labeled "the secular dimension of our intelligence."

However, the Apostle Paul teaches us that: "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18). This means that living organisms are only at the mercy of this planet only when God leaves such organisms (including people) at the "mercy" of such planet and this is why it is truthful that entire civilizations have been wiped out by natural disasters. When we perceive either God's absence or God's presence in the destruction of an entire civilization, we come up with a different kind of understanding. Such understanding comes through what I have personally labeled "the spiritual dimension of our intelligence." However, within the human mind, things are even more complicated than that. The problem is that we are not only guided by a "spiritual" or "secular" way of thinking. We are also guided by emotional issues regarding how a particular event touches our own personal lives or the personal lives of those we care about. This is the "emotional" dimension of our intelligence. Moreover, within our own human minds, things gets even much more complicated because we should not allow ourselves just to express our perception of any particular truth in a way that we bruise the sensitivities of others and come up with end results that are the opposite of Jesus' goals of advancing God's kingdom in our personal lives; this is something that has to do with the fourth dimension of our human intelligence and this is what I have labeled "the fourth" dimension or the "political dimension" of the intelligence leading our thoughts and actions. Our Lord Jesus Christ put those four dimensions in a very elegant way when He said: “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:12&13).

Based on Jesus' way of thinking (a way of thinking that later came to be better amplified by the writings of Paul, John, Peter and James), even though people with just a secular way of thinking (those who just look to written historical records and geological discoveries) may feel that you are right when you say that "living organisms on this planet are at its mercy," you are really wrong. Living organisms (including people) can only live or die through the presence or absence of God's protective power. This is why it is written: "If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken" Isaiah 1:19). For instance, if in Libya, Iraq, Syria and Egypt just one third of the population were able to study and live according to the teachings of the New Testament in the Bible, have public meetings to worship God on a weekly basis as taught in the Bible and had full freedom to teach that gospel to the rest of the population, we wouldn't have so much killings or so much humans against fellow humans inflicted pain. If in the United States of America, we had a truthful freedom of having just one third of teachers in elementary and high schools teachings by words and by example that it is our duty to love God our Creator with all our hearts, minds and strength and to love others as we love ourselves, we would not have so many young men being killed or maimed by others of their own age.

The God of the Bible is a God that has described Himself as a God that enters our lives only through invitation. He does not come through invasion or by breaking open any door so He could come in: "I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me" (Revelation 3:20). Now with God with us, then His protective power also becomes a reality in our lives.

Personally, I have reached a conclusion that Nature has some inherent intelligence within. However, this is not a "conscious" intelligence that has the ability to discriminate between those individuals who wish to obey God or those who don't care one way or the other. However, whenever people become defiant to God's moral laws, then Nature has a "reset" kind of behavior to wipe out of existence those who exceed in wickedness on this earth, and those having every inclination of their thoughts of only evil all the time (Genesis 6:5). God personally did it once but God announced such action before the flood and gave ample opportunity before doing so. Regretfully, since nature is something unconscious, nature begins its destructive process only where there is "an axis of natural instability." In such process good and evil people are killed alike just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For instance, Pompeii was an ancient Roman town that was a center of sexual corruption that was having a real negative influence for the entire civilized world. Many archeological findings are consistent with this knowledge and, if we use a "New Testament based yardstick" regarding what is sexual corruption, Pompeii was a very corrupt city. At the least expected time, "Nature" pressed a "reset button" and Mount Vesuvius erupted. This is a volcano near the Bay of Naples in Italy, thousands of years old that has erupted more than 50 times. Its most famous eruption took place in the year 79 A.D., when the volcano buried the ancient Roman city of Pompeii under a thick carpet of volcanic ash. Pompeii was a flourishing resort for Rome’s most distinguished citizens. The dust “poured across the land” like a flood, one witness wrote, and shrouded the city in “a darkness…like the black of closed and unlighted rooms.” Two thousand people died, and the city was abandoned for a very lengthy time. Many persecuted Jews and many persecuted Christians were able to draw a parallel between Sodom and Gomorrah and the fate of Pompeii; therefore, the spreading of sexual corruption began to take a break.

FF

[Felix Florimon]

Truthful or an exaggeration?

http://youtu.be/Gc4w7U0KoMk

"Planet X (7 times Earth size) crossing Earth's orbit on Passover 1400 BC could have brought the meteor shower that killed more enemy than Joshua's army and extended daylight by over 12 hours5?

Something interesting is that Joshua's long day was recorded as China's short day"

"All the fuel that we put in today's cars is a reminder of Noah's flood."

8 super signs in heaven:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXUqfNQ3J0o

VISION: Could people’s lack of knowledge plus a commitment to do just the opposite of what God commands be followed by a really a horrendous condition? Could this create another condition where God puts a limit which, after it is trespassed, God’s withdraw His protection from people? Jesus draws lines in the land! California, Texas, Georgia, NYC, Illinois!

http://youtu.be/0mE2lEsFK0A

FF

[Felix Florimon]

Huge Sections of California is sinking. North Korea says it faces worst drought in a century: Now more than ever, we should put Jesus' teachings in practice when He said: "Love your neighbor as yourself."  

We need to pray for others in the same way we wish others to pray for us whenever we see ourselves in a very difficult situation.

We need to pray so God could use those who believe in accepting God’s plan of salvation through Jesus Christ and no nature to strike down perverse laws condoning perversity in people living in any place. California has a state legislature and judicial system combination that is the most perverse on earth enacting laws that are against God design of a family structure consistent with the fifth commandment stating: “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you” (Exodus 20:12). The state legislature of California and the judicial system have forsaken God’s law of a family of a male father and female mother having children and they have written phony unnatural laws in which a child could have two different mothers living as “husband and wife” plus one “father” who gave his service of making one of the ladies pregnant (verdict.justia.com/…/california-allows-children-two-legal-p…). However, the perverse laws in North Korea are of a different nature. North Korea regime is the most politically perverse on earth regarding the restrictions it has for those who believe in spreading God’s plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. For instance: “A Christian woman accused of distributing the Bible, a book banned in communist North Korea, was publicly executed for the crime in July 2009” (huffingtonpost.com/…/north-korea-christian-exe_n_244340.html). California and North Korea are facing the worse drought during the last 100 years. However, what those states need most is our prayers so their citizens could be moved to strike down their perverse laws condoning the perversity that comes when we forget about God’s laws through His Ten Commandments and through the love and redemption of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what is happening in California where this region of the USA is governed by the most most morally perverse legislature and a judicial system on earth establishing laws condoning moral perversity:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z7UV6xJNvM&feature=share

This is happening in North Korea a region of world where the most politccally perverse government on earth has established laws condoning legal perversity regarding why people should be made an spectacle by public execution: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33160768

FF

[LifeHiscost]

Huge Sections of California is sinking. North Korea says it faces worst drought in a century: Now more than ever, we should put Jesus' teachings in practice when He said: "Love your neighbor as yourself."  

We need to pray for others in the same way we wish others to pray for us whenever we see ourselves in a very difficult situation.

We need to pray so God could use those who believe in accepting God’s plan of salvation through Jesus Christ and no nature to strike down perverse laws condoning perversity in people living in any place. California has a state legislature and judicial system combination that is the most perverse on earth enacting laws that are against God design of a family structure consistent with the fifth commandment stating: “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you” (Exodus 20:12). The state legislature of California and the judicial system have forsaken God’s law of a family of a male father and female mother having children and they have written phony unnatural laws in which a child could have two different mothers living as “husband and wife” plus one “father” who gave his service of making one of the ladies pregnant (verdict.justia.com/…/california-allows-children-two-legal-p…). However, the perverse laws in North Korea are of a different nature. North Korea regime is the most politically perverse on earth regarding the restrictions it has for those who believe in spreading God’s plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. For instance: “A Christian woman accused of distributing the Bible, a book banned in communist North Korea, was publicly executed for the crime in July 2009” (huffingtonpost.com/…/north-korea-christian-exe_n_244340.html). California and North Korea are facing the worse drought during the last 100 years. However, what those states need most is our prayers so their citizens could be moved to strike down their perverse laws condoning the perversity that comes when we forget about God’s laws through His Ten Commandments and through the love and redemption of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what is happening in California where this region of the USA is governed by the most most morally perverse legislature and a judicial system on earth establishing laws condoning moral perversity:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z7UV6xJNvM&feature=share

This is happening in North Korea a region of world where the most politccally perverse government on earth has established laws condoning legal perversity regarding why people should be made an spectacle by public execution: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33160768

FF

http://thesovereigninvestor.com/exclusives/stocks-economy-on-verge-of-collapse/?z=385647

  

Davidson goes on to say, “I know that everywhere you turn things look pretty good. The market is near all-time highs, the dollar is strong, and real estate is booming again. But remember, the exact same scenario played out in 1999 and 2007. The economy is unraveling right now, and fast. Very fast.”

 

3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.....1 Thessalonians 5
 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[pnattmbtc]

Don777: We may be surprised who has the ear of God.

Indeed.  Who has the ear of God?  Looking at the stories of Jesus in the Gospels gives us an indication. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by pnattmbtc

[pnattmbtc]

Well, well Felix you want to continue this diatribe.

 

Let me just say this: If I thought the God I worship would destroy a few in a lesser populated area than those in a more heavily populated area to teach others a lesson then I am not sure how much I would want to love or serve Him.

 

I am still digesting your statement that OKC happened because there were not people in small areas, outside of Okla City, praying for the gay rights people in the parade. They don't make enough anti acid tablets to make this palatable.

FF:Anyone thinking as you have expressed yourself is taking God out of the biblical context taught by Moses, Jesus and the Apostles Paul, John, Peter and James. I do agree that Christians that have almost no knowledge about the experience between God and Israel should abstain from even considering any correlation about the absence of God's protection and an open rebellion against His laws. They cannot see the forest from the trees and they will end up in getting a very wrong concept about God. Regarding God's judgment or lack of judgment, it is better to use Jesus' methods of talking to them just in parables in order to allow them reach their own conclusions in a way that is not offensive to their own spiritual sensitivities.

This has been a most interesting thread.  I was trying to get all the way through it before commenting, but felt constrained to do so here.  Regarding the statement, "Anyone thinking as you have expressed yourself is taking God out of the biblical context taught by Moses, Jesus and the Apostles Paul, John, Peter and James," I don't think this is necessarily the case.  This sentence has built into it the belief that you are correct in your own ability to understand the biblical context of which you speak, but your understanding might be flawed.  So there is at least this possibility that one could think as Naomi does without taking God out of the biblical context.

Another possibility is that the whole approach is flawed.  That is, how should we understand the Biblical context?  Should we start at Genesis and work our way through book by book, giving everything we read equal wait?  That's one approach.  

Another approach would be to use the revelation of Jesus Christ to define our understanding of God.  We could start with that, considering that as our primary source, and then add on top of that.

Yet another approach would be to allow Jesus Christ to define our understanding of God exclusively.  All other revelation would be filtered by that understanding.