Is this truthful or it is just an exaggeration?

[Naomi]

Amen JoeMo & Deb ...

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

Unless we have a prophet who specifically messages from God that a disaster is indeed signal from God, we do well to refrain from such correlations.

This is only 100% truthful when one is unaware of how the Bible and the Spirit of Prophesy make a close correlation of natural disasters on how Israel and other groups decided to abandon what they previously considered as God's laws in order to promote a lifestyle that is an open defiance those laws. This why in Israel many of God's messengers were killed or had to hide in order to save their own lives. This is what happened to many them: "There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground" (Hebrews 11:35-38). Even our Lord Jesus in order to prevent sounding rude and insensitive to His audience, He preferred just to talk in parables so many of His listeners could not try to get a hold on Him and kill Him before His time was due. It is very sad but today over two thousand years of the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus many people in our church get deeply offended when we mention that many of our own suffering and the suffering of others has any kind of relationship with our own ability or the ability of others to sin against God. Even Jesus' disciples were made aware that the separation of the religious political leaders of their time from the will of God would bring them a great deal of suffering and finally the destruction of Jerusalem.

[M. T. Cross]

Fine, great, I don't buy it but that cause I am not a Christian. That said, that has noting to do with tornado's being a punishment from God.

[JoeMo]

Ted,

Awesome post on the goodness of God. I especially liked your example of the Babylonian Captivity - I wish I had thought of it. I taught a Sabbath School lesson a few weeks ago on the comfort and encouragement that God sent Israel through both Jeremiah and Ezekiel through the captivity - even encouraging them to build houses; have children, etc. Ezekiels' parable about the dry bones is about as encouraging as one can be. Praise the Lord that He blesses us through His prophets!

The captivity was not just "punishment" - it was a witness to the pagan Babylonians (and later the Medo-Persians) of the goodness and power of God! In both empires, who wielded the power of the throne? One of the captives (Daniel)! Israel was a witness and daniel was an evangelist during the captivity - not just a nation or a person in exile!

[Guest]

I don't want to pile on, Felix. But I think videos, and preaching like this turn people away from God, and are the reason many people won't have anything to do with organized religion of any kind.

[joeb]

It is very chilling and sad but very few people know that there is a very close correlation in the recent Moore Oklahoma's tornadoes and other natural disasters and human behavior disapproved by the Bible. Please watch the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVmshT3xIw

FF

I have to ask, Felix, how do you know without a doubt that this is a judgment of God, and not the result of weather patterns? Tornados in that part of the country have been happening since before the US became a nation simply because of how hot-and-humid and cold air masses meet there. In other words, conditions have always been right there for the creation of tornados.

I have no quibble with the general idea that God will send judgments upon the earth, but just how do people like you and I distinguish between natural events and events that God has sent? And how do we know without a doubt that God sent some weather event in response to something like a Gay Pride march that most likely doesn't even begin to represent the thinking of the majority of the people in that area as they are reputedly pretty conservative? I'm curious to see your thinking along these lines.

[Gail]

Wow, this topic sure got HOT!!

There are many good points made, but I like this:

Quote:

I can respect the image of the Christian deity as........ you know one that loves his followers.

And God is better than just loving His followers. He loves them (and Jesus died for them while) they were still sinners, while they were still rejecting Him. I marvel at that!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

..there is a very close correlation in the recent Moore Oklahoma's tornadoes and other natural disasters and human behavior disapproved by the Bible..

Felix, I do research for the consultant to the US Federal government (as well as other countries) on natural disasters, including earthquakes, floods, weather phenomena such as tornados and hurricanes, sinkholes, underground caves, and more. He does not agree with your statement. While he is very much a Christian and believer in God, he also believes (as do I) that God gave humans the ability to research, reason, and study these natural phenomena....because that is what they *are* - natural. Yes, God is always in control, but natural sciences follow rules, as set in place by God.

Tornados, hurricanes, and floods generally happen in regions where the weather conditions are conducive for such. Earthquakes happen where there are fault lines in the vicinity. Sinkholes happen due to underground geologic factors. Dams and levees are breached, and bridges collapse, due to flooding and/or inadequate architectural design or other human error.

I'm trying very hard to be respectful of your opinion, but I can't even come close to agreeing with it.

[Gail]

When Daniel prayed to be a help to Nebuchadnezzar with his dream, the prayer was urgent for him because he and his 3 friends were going to be included in the death edict.

BUT- When he approaches the king's eunuch the next day, what is the first thing he said?

"Then Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to execute the wise men of Babylon, and said to him, “Do not execute the wise men of Babylon. Take me to the king, and I will interpret his dream for him.”

He prayed that the lives of the wise men (yes, they were phonies and evil) would be spared. He had an attitude of mercy toward them.

Even in the case of Nebuchadnezzar's other dream and in Belshazzar's last evening, Daniel was reticent to be the bearer of bad news. But the heathen Babylonians recognized something in him that desired mercy, not blame and condemnation. The blame and condemnation DID come because of obstinacy, but not because Daniel railed on them. He could have- he would have been just in doing so, too. But he didn't.

I think it might be a case of letting God do his job in His time.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I think it might be a case of letting God do his job in His time.

No one seems to be recognizing that there is a devil to reckon with, who is a thief and a liar, who goes about seeking to devour. If God in His sovereignty, steps aside to let the devil have his moment of triumph in the life of one of the sons of God, if I were in the middle of the destruction recognizing my position as one of God's servants, I would be asking Him first to take care of me as He promised He would, and then asking myself what it was I might be responsible for that might be helpful in keeping this from happening again.

"...for you have been my partners in spreading the Good News about Christ from the time you first heard it until now. And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns." Philippians 1:5-6 NLT

God cares!

[joeb]

Quote:

I think it might be a case of letting God do his job in His time.

No one seems to be recognizing that there is a devil to reckon with, who is a thief and a liar, who goes about seeking to devour. If God in His sovereignty, steps aside to let the devil have his moment of triumph in the life of one of the sons of God, if I were in the middle of the destruction recognizing my position as one of God's servants, I would be asking Him first to take care of me as He promised He would, and then asking myself what it was I might be responsible for that might be helpful in keeping this from happening again.

"...for you have been my partners in spreading the Good News about Christ from the time you first heard it until now. And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns." Philippians 1:5-6 NLT

God cares!

Hmmmm.... What was Job responsible for? Being good? Being a target because he was righteous? Didn't Job ask those questions and everyone of them were off target?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Hmmmm.... What was Job responsible for? Being good? Being a target because he was righteous? Didn't Job ask those questions and everyone of them were off target?

While it's not spelled out in so many words in the Scriptures, it wouldn't surprise me if Job was in danger of arriving at the conclusion that his salvation was a result of how faithful he was, as opposed to recognizing the only reason one is saved is a result not only of Jesus' death on the cross for Job's sins, but also Jesus continuous work in his life that enabled him to be an overcomer.

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."Isaiah 64:6 KJV

God cares!

[Don777]

A Guardian of God's Reputation

Our conception of God mostly reflects upon us, not Him. Unless we have prophetic insights, we must be careful how we speak for God. We can look to Scripture in our attempt to understand our world as it is now. Many of the natural events in the Bible have been linked to God; political fortunes as well. We can point to patterns and wonder.

In the 1860s, Ellen White explained the change of fortunes in a civil war battle to an angel's influence. Most of us recognize her prophetic right to assert such. For me, I have learned to be careful how I ascribe things to God. I am not a prophet.

Keep in mind that God loves everyone, even sinners like you and me. The LGBT community has been the object of some posts here. I have some friends who are gay and each of them live a caring, kind-hearted life. I find the Bible clear about sexual orientation. But, God knows, I don't. We may be surprised who has the ear of God.

[joeb]

Quote:

Hmmmm.... What was Job responsible for? Being good? Being a target because he was righteous? Didn't Job ask those questions and everyone of them were off target?

While it's not spelled out in so many words in the Scriptures, it wouldn't surprise me if Job was in danger of arriving at the conclusion that his salvation was a result of how faithful he was, as opposed to recognizing the only reason one is saved is a result not only of Jesus' death on the cross for Job's sins, but also Jesus continuous work in his life that enabled him to be an overcomer.

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."Isaiah 64:6 KJV

God cares!

You are beginning to sound like Robert, who's now on a vacation from here. God is going to call someone who is self-righteous a righteous man and His servant? Give me a break. That's an impossibility and you know it.

And someone is either self-righteous or they are not. There is no middle ground. If a person is "in danger of it" they are self-righteous. We either trust God or we do not. There is no half-way in trusting God.

[Tallmark]

I don't believe that God sends tornadoes, hurricanes, floods or fires. They come as a result of people who fragrantly disobey God's word. They chase away the Holy Spirit, and Satan moves in. Innocents get killed, some of the guilty escape, but there is always death and destruction.

We've had Gay Days at Disney World here in Orlando FL and nothing major has happened....yet.

[Tallmark]

Job for real? I have a hard time imagining Jesus and Satan placing bets on the lives of a man and his family. Just my $.02

[BobRyan]

Job for real? I have a hard time imagining Jesus and Satan placing bets on the lives of a man and his family. Just my $.02

God says he will rain fire and brimstone on the wicked in Rev 20 and in Rev 14 He says they are in torment in that fire and brimstone.

in Job 1 and 2 God says he and Satan and others are in a conference that appears to be run by God with attendees from who knows where - but Satan comes in among them.

---------------------------------------------

Does God tell these in the form of a parable? we have plenty of examples of parables in the Bible - these do not fit the literary style of parable as used by Bible writers.

Is this just a lie in the Bible? IF so - what is the rule to tell us when God is lying? And if he is inclined to tell such lies - what does that say about the Gospel itself?

or is this simply - the truth - read it accept it and don't worry about having to dismiss or downsize it.

-- and if the Bible is some sort of "fill in the blank with your own preference" sort of writings - then why have it at all?

in Christ,

Bob

[skyblue888]

Bob, it is not a matter of deciding whether

God lies in His messages or not but a matter

of understanding the language used to describe

His dealing with sin and sinners.

First we are told that "The

principles of His dealing with man are ever

the same." That "He

does not stand toward the sinner as an

executioner of the sentence against

transgression but He leaves the rejecters of

His mercy to themselves to reap that which

they have sown... The Spirit of God,

persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn

from the sinner and there is left no power to

control the evil passions of the soul and no

protection from the malice and enmity of

Satan." The Great Controversy, pp.343,36.

In the Bible this withdrawing of God's

protection from the sinner is called the

wrath of God. When that protection shall be

fully removed from mankind the language of

the Bible is that "The wrath of God is

complete." Revelation 15:1.

The destruction of Jerusalem is a perfect

example of this.

"The long-suffering of God

toward Jerusalem only confirmed the Jews

in their stubborn impenitence. In their

hatred and cruelty toward the disciples of

Jesus they rejected the last offer of mercy.

Then God withdrew His protection from them

and removed His restraining power from Satan

and his angels, and the nation was left to

the control of the leader she had

chosen." The Great Controversy,28.

The language of the Bible is consistent.

In Matt.22 it is written that God was wroth

against the Jews and that He sent His armies

to kill those murderers and to burn up their

city.

sky

[Felix Florimon]

Can't speak for Cricket but I was serious ... if you go and help you might develop a more compassionate attitude and have a knowledge of perhaps even ONE praying person. You know, like those in the crowds in your city that protect God from spewing His wrath upon those marching for Gay Rights ... we/they can do without your money.

Oh and PLEASE don't allow anything we might say about you and your vocalized beliefs make you feel uncomfortable! I am impressed that you "held your breath"

[Felix Florimon]

If you would not be offended in sharing a couple of rather personal bits of information, I am just wondering ....

How old are you?

Where did you study for your divinity degree

I would love to one day be so sure of my self and my knowledge of the mind of God & Sis. White that I could better understand the natural and man-made problems in our world. Therefore, if you would be so kind as to share with me how & where I can obtain this kind of understanding ....

I am 59 years old.

My "divinity degree" was obtained through my behavior toward God, when I was in my early twenties, of trying to ignore Him and not praying to Him during some sensitive situations in my life. I did so because, by previous experiences, I did not see Him doing what I asked Him in prayer. In those sensitive areas of my life where I decided to ignore God and do things according to "my best judgment" and the "best judgment" of those people that also had little regard for God laws, I obtained all the things that I could wish. Then I became to learn to consider myself as "one of the happiest men on earth." However, that happiness was not long lived. All of the sudden, hell began to break lose and I began to have a horrendous suffering in my own my life. I began to feel very angry against God and began to see Him almost as an enemy that needed to be avoided. However, my earthly father is a man who really has a life dedicated to God. When my pain was more intense, he began to have small groups of prayer, Bible study and worship songs in his house. He invited me in. Reluctantly, I decided to go. In one of those first meeting I attended, my bad attitude toward God began to change. Later on, I began to understand that if I kept praying even though I did not previously saw an answer from God, all the pain and suffering I had to go through would have never occurred. Even today, as a result of bad decisions of ignoring God over thirty years ago, I am still suffering the effects of those bad consequences. However, to my own surprise and to the surprise of those who closely know me, my suffering today is much less intense because even though I have not been completely liberated from the consequences of bad decisions that I made more than thirty years ago, I truly feel the protection of God and His angels taking care of me and taking care of those that I love.

FF

[Tobiwan]

We are told of four angels holding the winds of strife until the servants of God are sealed. one account reported Hail stones the size of soft balls. There is reference to storms that will produce stones the size of 50 lb. ice blocks. The devil is just practicing, and seeing what he can get away with!!!!!!! Super cell storms, we haven't seen anything yet.

A lot of what happened during the "kingdoms of Israel" was because of the desire to be like the other nations. God told them they would not the impact of that request. Ahab choose to believe "that old serpent", and I have trouble attributing to God the lack of rain despite how the story is written. The story does not end there. Look at the whole story of Job, how it ends. Look how THE REVELATION ends, how the Great Controversy ends. Christians today even SDAs misunderstand and misrepresent God and how He sees and deals with us.

Felix, my wife and I lived in Yonkers a long time ago early 70's and what learned about the church (How it works and such) almost caused me to walk (run) away. While there I met a man (pastor) who really loved God and people and started me on a path to where I discovered He is on my side and for me. The Idea that the storms happened further west in less populated areas to protect the big population centers and give them more time, is an interesting one. What with NY13 in the near past and all. How did that work out anyway I have not yet seen a report on that?????

satan is very good and putting a spin on events to make God look bad, and to often Gods most vocal supporters are the best carriers of this spin.

When the Good News about God's kingdom has been reveled to the whole world, the end will come

Toby in New York

[Felix Florimon]

the sun shines on the good and the bad, the tornadoes blow on the righteous and unrighteous.

...very bad things happen to people who are Godly, look at Job.

the sun shines on the good and the bad, God deeply loves us all.

You are right but only to a certain point. According to Matthew 24:3, this world will have an end and according to Matthew 25 many evil people will be thrown into the fire prepared for the Devil and his angels during the end of this world.

We truly know that in this world there are many people of evil that couldn't care less if they cause pain and suffering to others. There is no way that God can take them to heaven if they don't change such kind of attitude toward others. The problem is that if they don't listen your voice or my voice warning them about the bad consequences of their actions, then God has to allow them to suffer the consequences of taking God's ability to protect them out of the reality of their daily lives. Moreover, I don't feel that we make them any favor telling them to disregard the cataclysmic events coming to earth as anything unrelated to the withdrawal of God's Holy Spirit enabling nature to turn against people.

FF

[Naomi]

Well, well Felix you want to continue this diatribe.

Let me just say this: If I thought the God I worship would destroy a few in a lesser populated area than those in a more heavily populated area to teach others a lesson then I am not sure how much I would want to love or serve Him.

I am still digesting your statement that OKC happened because there were not people in small areas, outside of Okla City, praying for the gay rights people in the parade. They don't make enough anti acid tablets to make this palatable.

Yes, I believe that the time is drawing close when God will allow the 4 Angels holding back the winds strife until after the servants of God are sealed and then the winds of strife will bring unbearable suffering; including your area and the people who live there.

I am sorry that I read this on Sabbath morning and perhaps should not even allow it to clutter my mind. For that and you I am sorry.

[cricket]

My work consist taking care of people who are not in immediate danger but their condition could turn to be a very critical in any unpredictable moment. I also am taking care of people who are very close to death and I need to be always available to give them proper guidance in case their condition gets much worse without any previous notice.

And for those people, do you pray for them and with them? And when the "unpredicted" moments happen, do you tell them that this is what God has given them because of their sinful lives? Do you take advantage of this opportunity to spread the word about sin's role to those who are watching their loved ones suffer?

[Guest]

I work to support myself and to support a big family. My work consist taking care of people who are not in immediate danger but their condition could turn to be a very critical in any unpredictable moment. I also am taking care of people who are very close to death and I need to be always available to give them proper guidance in case their condition gets much worse without any previous notice.

FF

Keep up the good work. :)