Is this truthful or it is just an exaggeration?

[cricket]

So, what you're saying is that even if there is one instance in which a family loves God, and lives their lives for Him and have still been affected by these tragic events, it's not enough to debunk the theory as you've presented?

Interesting.

[Gregory Matthews]

A fundamental principle of science is: Correlation is NOT cause:

Once upon a time, a school teacher decided to research the reading ability of his students. NOTE: He taught in a small 8-grade school.

So, to begin his research he evaluated the reading ability of all of his students.

Second, he then measured the large toe on the right foot of each student.

He discovered that there was a strong, positive, correlation between the size of the students right. big, toe and their reading ability. The larger the toe, the better the student was able to read.

He then wrote up his research, which he proposed, proved that reading ability was dependent upon the size of a students right, big toe. He proposed that as a next step a study be done to see if one could increase the size of that toe with a consequent increase in reading ability.

He was confused when the professional journal refused to publish his article. After all he had proven a definite, positive, correlation between the size of a person's big toe and their reading ability.

I say again: Correlation in NOT cause.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: Naomi

Yes, my friend, I understand where you are coming from and sadly I understanding from whence he comes.

I am not able to read your mind regarding where you think I am coming from. However, the word "sadly" tells me that you don't know that I am coming from a core set of beliefs that we should truly advocate to have an unrestricted freedom to take Jesus' message to all the ends of the earth, all creation, make disciples in all nations as stated in Acts 1:7; Mark 16:15 and Matthew 28:19, and that we should have an unrestricted freedom to "preach the word... in season and out of season, to correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction (2 Timothy 4:2) to non believers in Jesus Christ under the guidance of God's Holy Spirit.

FF

Yes and no. You should have unrestricted freedom to gather and worship as you see best, according to your beliefs. You should have unrestricted freedom to hold meetings that non believers can attend to learn of your beliefs, and you should be able to advertise those meetings. A guest choosing to attend a church service, evangelical meeting or even a forum such as this is inviting you to tell them of your beliefs and moral viewpoint. As is my case I come here to C/A with a whole different set of beliefs than others here and I expect that they will be argued and that they will debated from a Biblical standpoint. There are times when I will point out the futility of some members methods, and they can take that to be insulting, or they can take it to learn a better approach to explaining their belief system to a person that does not share it.

However, you should not have unrestricted freedom to go to peoples doors uninvited or to force your message and moral system through political avenues.

[Felix Florimon]

So, what you're saying is that even if there is one instance in which a family loves God, and lives their lives for Him and have still been affected by these tragic events, it's not enough to debunk the theory as you've presented?

Interesting.

I do not know what is your best understanding of the Bible about God's protection for us here on earth. However, we need to learn to imitate Jesus' personal example in the face of danger. Our Lord Jesus never liked to defy dangerous situations with His own presence, He avoided it as much as possible and He taught His disciples to do likewise (Luke 21:20-21). However, when our Lord Jesus had not choice but to be in the middle of a dangerous situation, He was in constant communication with the Heavenly Father. Based on my best understanding of the Bible, I have not been able to find any verse giving us a "blank protection check" from the ravages of nature. Therefore, if I live in any city and the major of that city says that people of the city should leave it because there is a hurricane coming, I would be one of the first ones to leave regardless of how much I believe in prayer. In order to stay in that city, I would do the same thing Moses did before going to Egypt. I would need to receive some kind of special assurance from God in order to stay in any dangerous situation.

FF

[Felix Florimon]

A fundamental principle of science is: Correlation is NOT cause: ........

I say again: Correlation in NOT cause.

In this instance, I agree with you 100%. It is like having multiple sex partners or being married to a person having multiple sex partners. There is a higher correlation with multiple sex partners or having sex with a person having multiple sex partners with getting AIDS. However, having multiple sex partners is not the cause of AIDS. The HIV plus a marked weakening of the immune system is the real cause of AIDS.

FF

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Wow, Felix what was their purpose then? Of course it was political as well, most things associated with Christianity are.

The only politics the followers of Jesus Christ believe in is the politics leading to a healthier, happier, longer life here on earth and at the end eternal life. This is what Jesus Christ said: “Truly I tell you... no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first” (Mark 10:29-31). However, this is also the same Jesus Christ stating: “But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well” (Matthew 6:33). The reason many Christians cannot live a longer and happier life is because of persecution in atheists and in Muslim countries where they could be executed for no having a faith that is consistent with the beliefs of people in government in those nations. However, they die trusting that the Creator will bring them back to life at the end of this world in order to enjoy eternal life in a renovated earth.

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Google it for 5 minutes. Read just a weeee little bit. The Inquisition in particular was to wipe out non Christian beliefs. If that meant death to the people that practiced it then so be it. The Christianization of Europe was a blood bath, follow our god and our bible or die.

The only definition of "Christian" that followers of our Lord Jesus Christ accept is the definition that Jesus Himself made when He said: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). The Inquisition was a vicious kind of persecution done to wipe out non Christian beliefs in order to establish another non Christian belief. This is based on defining Christians as the followers of Jesus Christ according to the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles Paul, John, Peter and James. Non believers in the Christian faith do not have any right to redefine Christianity out of the biblical context defined by those five, fine gentlemen. They are the ones that have transmitted the concept of Christianity to the human race. I have not read anywhere that the authors of the Inquisition had visions from God or were visited by angels telling them that the Jesus' method was wrong regarding how to confront people of evil: “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves” (Matthew 10:16).

We only have two "holy books" the Bible defining who God is, who is a truthful follower of Jesus Christ and how the Christian faith should be spread around the world and the Quran defining who Allah is and how the Islamic faith should be spread and maintained by the followers of prophet Mohammad. In Christian communities or nations where at least nominal believers in Jesus are the majority people are told: "If you leave the Christian faith, the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus for you will be in vain, however, we will always be praying and waiting for you to return back to your faith in Jesus until your last breath." In Muslim nations people are told: "You don't leave the Muslim faith and you don't say anything derogatory about Allah's prophet Mohammad or else." In secular nations if you say something bad about the Bible and Christianity, many people with great political influence will applaud you. However, if you say anything that is openly negative against Islam, you are intolerant and an insensitive person. In atheist nations, people don't care one way or the other if anyone says anything derogatory against followers of the Christian faith as defined by the Lord Jesus Christ or followers of the Islamic faith as defined by those believing in prophet Mohammad.

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Now you and others can sit around and say that this was all political maneuvering, you can say it was based on false doctrine. Thing is, same God, same Bible, same "wrath".

The only people who do "political maneuvering regarding what the Bible says are those who are not interested in applying the teachings of Jesus Christ in their own lives and in the lives of others through preaching the word of God and praying to the Creator of the universe.

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

I distinctly see you following that same kind of God. Your comment on how non Christians are a threat to civilization and the future of man-kind, your view that your god is killing people because of the sins of others, its the same thinking as those that thought it was a great idea to butcher anyone that would not follow the same "doctrine" as them. Its sick

. It is not my duty to defend myself regarding what I think about non Christians. What is really important is what Jesus taught regarding non Christians. Jesus' final teachings regarding non Christians is that we should approach them in order to tell them about Jesus' teachings. Therefore, in the minds of Jesus' followers, non Christians are defined by the kind of people we should reach to: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20).

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

You know, I have spent half my life hearing about how in the final days the "perfect" Christians will be oppressed and persecuted. Oddly enough it seems that its the same tactic that Christians like yourself seem to employ.

I am afraid that you are living in an illusory world of imagination. If I am wrong, then I will leave up to you to come with general news media reports pointing out how non Christians are being persecuted and put in jail because they refuse to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. Or at least show me your findings that in Muslim and atheists nations it is the law of the land not to kill Christians teaching that the only way of salvation and having a better future is just through our faith in Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

I keep hearing about this almighty creator that gave free will, then people like yourself go on about how he punishes people for actually using it.

People are given free will to choose good versus evil. People who chose evil end up harming others and harming themselves; therefore, they are the ones who began the "punishing business," God said that people harming others and harming themselves will not last for ever. He will finally take them out of existence: "Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Really, in the end I see two Gods presented here, and let me tell you, the one that you present is a sick, petty, twisted and evil being. I have read and studied the bible a great deal, and let me tell you, not once did I ever get the impression of Jesus having this kind of diseased way of thinking. He may not have been as peacefull as some would like to believe but I don't see any suggestion that he would use his godly powers to commit genocide.

As stated above, either you or I live in a world of imaginary illusions regarding what is the real teachings of Christianity. In order for you to show that you are not living in a illusory world regarding what Christianity is all about, then you have to come with facts needed that are mentioned above.

Even though to an apparent observer we are having a conversation that is off the topic, the premise of the topic regarding of it is truthful or it is an exaggeration? I would state that Romans 6:23 is 100% truthful when it states that "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Therefore, anyone one who dares to openly defy by words and actions the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ will end up invalidating in themselves and in others the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Moreover, anyone trying to find happiness or confront the problem of evil by methods that are not fully sanctioned by the teachings of Jesus Christ that were further enhanced through the Holy Spirit by the Apostles Paul, John, Peter and James will invite the withdrawing of God's Holy Spirit and the end result will be a premature application of the wages of sin; this is death. Sometimes this premature death comes through people of evil, other times it comes through the horrendous destabilization of nature when the protective effect of God's Spirit is withdrawn from nature.

This is what the news media tells us about death rates in USA cities because we have not yet being able to reach potential killers due to the hard work of militant secularists and atheists working very hard and being successful in taking Jesus' teachings out of the public square:

Quote:

Americans have a better chance of being killed in Chicago than U.S. troops do in Afghanistan, figures from the nation’s third-largest city show.

This year 228 Chicago residents have been killed, while the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan during the same period is 144, The Huffington Post reported.

The news comes amidst some bad PR for the Chicago Police Department—this month it assigned 100 officers to the wedding of the daughter of a White House adviser, Valerie Jarrett. The department has been proactive in trying to quell the violence, offering officers overtime pay for working their days off and deploying a large number of officers to high crime areas, like downtown where “mob-style” attack have occurred recently.

It’s not just this year that Chicago outpaced Afghanistan in terms of deaths by violence, either. Since 2001 more than 5,000 people have been killed by gunfire in Chicago, and during that same period 2,000 U.S. troops were killed in Afghanistan, Chicago’s WBEZ 91.5 reported.

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/257478/more-ame...WGovmZp2BpDy.99 .

FF

There is so much "I am right and anyone that does not think like me is stupid and wrong" attitude in this post, I would not even know where to begin responding.

[cricket]

I do not know what is your best understanding of the Bible about God's protection for us here on earth. However, we need to learn to imitate Jesus' personal example in the face of danger. Our Lord Jesus never liked to defy dangerous situations with His own presence, He avoided it as much as possible and He taught His disciples to do likewise (Luke 21:20-21). However, when our Lord Jesus had not choice but to be in the middle of a dangerous situation, He was in constant communication with the Heavenly Father. Based on my best understanding of the Bible, I have not been able to find any verse giving us a "blank protection check" from the ravages of nature. Therefore, if I live in any city and the major of that city says that people of the city should leave it because there is a hurricane coming, I would be one of the first ones to leave regardless of how much I believe in prayer. In order to stay in that city, I would do the same thing Moses did before going to Egypt. I would need to receive some kind of special assurance from God in order to stay in any dangerous situation.

Do you know how much warning a person has when a tornado is coming? It's not at all like a hurricane. Usually we have less than 20 minutes warning (if the television or radio is playing). Sirens go off when the threat is imminent. At that point the best protection is to move to the lowest point in the house or to move to a room with sturdy walls and no windows.

I'm fairly certain that the family I am acquainted with was in constant communication with God the day their home was destroyed.

[Felix Florimon]

However, you should not have unrestricted freedom to go to peoples doors uninvited or to force your message and moral system through political avenues.

The teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ is consistent with a "free market of ideas" where, at the personal level, people should have unrestricted freedom to communicate those ideas and they should also have an unrestricted freedom to think them through and accept them or reject them. When you begin tinkering with the political process in order to prevent the communication to others and restrict others from thinking through those ideas and restrict others to have a real freedom to choose in order to reject or accept them, then you place the American Political Process on a path of an adversarial relationship against the ability of Jesus' followers to communicate His message throughout the entire earth. Moreover, the American Political Process is putting itself on an ominous collision course with the 1st Amendment of the USA Constitution. This weakening of the 1st Amendment of the USA Constitution has greatly weakened the ability of the earthly "spiritual foot soldiers" of our Spiritual Commander in Chief, the Lord Jesus Christ, to snatch victims from the Devils hands and they have become "foot soldiers" in the "Devils Army" giving them the ability to literally kill more American citizens in the street of Chicago than the number of American soldiers being killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban (Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/257478/more-ame...WGovmZp2BpDy.99). Moreover, this has also weakened the presence of God's Spirit in many people within the American nation and due to reasons that we are unable to fully understand, since September 11, 2001, there seems to have been an "ominous maladjustment in nature" making the attacks of mother nature against the American mainland to become more frequent and ominous.

FF

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Felix Florimon

I do not know what is your best understanding of the Bible about God's protection for us here on earth. However, we need to learn to imitate Jesus' personal example in the face of danger. Our Lord Jesus never liked to defy dangerous situations with His own presence, He avoided it as much as possible and He taught His disciples to do likewise (Luke 21:20-21). However, when our Lord Jesus had not choice but to be in the middle of a dangerous situation, He was in constant communication with the Heavenly Father. Based on my best understanding of the Bible, I have not been able to find any verse giving us a "blank protection check" from the ravages of nature. Therefore, if I live in any city and the major of that city says that people of the city should leave it because there is a hurricane coming, I would be one of the first ones to leave regardless of how much I believe in prayer. In order to stay in that city, I would do the same thing Moses did before going to Egypt. I would need to receive some kind of special assurance from God in order to stay in any dangerous situation.

Do you know how much warning a person has when a tornado is coming? It's not at all like a hurricane. Usually we have less than 20 minutes warning (if the television or radio is playing). Sirens go off when the threat is imminent. At that point the best protection is to move to the lowest point in the house or to move to a room with sturdy walls and no windows.

I'm fairly certain that the family I am acquainted with was in constant communication with God the day their home was destroyed.

Sometimes you have NO WARNING, even with todays much improved technology. They can turn instantly, or drop out of a rain cloud that radar didn't pick up until it is almost on the ground.

Cricket, I don't believe this has anything to do with understanding the dynamics, spirituality, morals involved...he said it in the beginning, God punished Okla because there would be fewer people killed, injured or property lost then if it was NYC...where there are always people in the crowds praying for the G/L Group to change their ways. How well I remember the F5's on May 3, 2001(or 02) that came through the same area. I was trapped in the center lane of a 3 lane freeway in the pathway for hours listening to the radio knowing family and friends were also in the pathway. It skipped over the freeway.TG I did a bit of research ... there was no Gay Rights parades prior to that time... sorry Felix. Tornados follow the same or similar paths...most people are aware of it. Do I believe God was there on May 3, and the other times that many areas of our world have been hit hard with lives an property lost? Yes, I believe God was there and if you listen to many accounts of those who were there...they can tell you from personal testimony that God was indeed there ... no doubt in their minds. Do I believe God caused it? No! Do I believe God could have prevented it? Yes ... but God must give the Great Controversy free reign until the time when He does lose the 4 winds and then we will REALLY see God's wrath.

Intelligent people should read and study ALL of the Bibles and be careful of passing judgment

[M. T. Cross]

A couple of points and questions here.

- there is a whole wide world outside of the USA. I was not talking about the States in particular, I was talking globally (U.S.A. included) I am not a U.S. citizen, so outside of caring that peoples privacy and right to believe what they choose is protected, I really don't care about your first amendment or your constitution. I think one look at the Middle East and their religiously run governments and how those countries function should be enough to scare off any idea of church and State NOT being as separate as possible.

- Are you saying (forgive me if I am wrong) that you should have unrestricted rights to ram your beliefs down others throats at will?

I would also like to thank you Felix. You have made me appreciate the Gods I honour that much more. Can't remember a story about sending natural disasters to kill people that they did not approve of.

[Felix Florimon]

I'm fairly certain that the family I am acquainted with was in constant communication with God the day their home was destroyed.

There is a time to preach, to correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. However, there is also a time to be in silent prayerful attitude to God specially when we come across someone that we directly know or a child of God that is suffering because of any disgrace. To do otherwise is to put ourselves at the mercy of the Evil one in order to convert us in his earthly agents rubbing salt in the wounds of the victim. In the case you mention, I would be in a silent prayerful attitude to God asking God to strengthen my own faith and the faith of the victim and illuminate our minds so we could finally see becoming a reality the final fulfillment of His promise stating that "...in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28).

FF

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Intelligent people should read and study ALL of the Bibles and be careful of passing judgment

And I would go so far as to say, don't judge at all, which is not to say one can't know the difference between right and wrong, whoever is involved in the action.

"My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.

So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For He will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due."1 Corinthians 4:4-6 NLT

God cares!

[Felix Florimon]

Are you saying (forgive me if I am wrong) that you should have unrestricted rights to ram your beliefs down others throats at will?

[Naomi]

Quote:

Intelligent people should read and study ALL of the Bibles and be careful of passing judgment

And I would go so far as to say, don't judge at all, which is not to say one can't know the difference between right and wrong, whoever is involved in the action.

"My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.

So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For He will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives.[/u] Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due."1 Corinthians 4:4-6 NLT

God cares!

Yes, totally agree ... especially with the not judging at all .. that has never been our assignment. Thank God ... too much pressure.

Even more frightening is knowing that He will bring out our private motives ... we(I) need to give prayerful consideration to our/my words,& deeds :)

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Even more frightening is knowing that He will bring out our private motives ... we(I) need to give prayerful consideration to our/my words,& deeds

I'm supposing it's always worthy of consideration, but I can't help but believe Jesus has you (and anyone else who accepts His promises)covered, without fail, Naomi.

"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”"Acts 5:30-32 NASB

"For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you."Galatians 3:28-29 NLT

I'm satisfied submission to Jesus is a key to our heavenly home.

"When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am."John 14:3 NLT

God cares, with His beautiful promises.

[Felix Florimon]

Sometimes you have NO WARNING, even with todays much improved technology. They can turn instantly, or drop out of a rain cloud that radar didn't pick up until it is almost on the ground.

Cricket, I don't believe this has anything to do with understanding the dynamics, spirituality, morals involved...he said it in the beginning, God punished Okla because there would be fewer people killed, injured or property lost then if it was NYC...where there are always people in the crowds praying for the G/L Group to change their ways. How well I remember the F5's on May 3, 2001(or 02) that came through the same area. I was trapped in the center lane of a 3 lane freeway in the pathway for hours listening to the radio knowing family and friends were also in the pathway. It skipped over the freeway.TG I did a bit of research ... there was no Gay Rights parades prior to that time... sorry Felix. Tornados follow the same or similar paths...most people are aware of it. Do I believe God was there on May 3, and the other times that many areas of our world have been hit hard with lives an property lost? Yes, I believe God was there and if you listen to many accounts of those who were there...they can tell you from personal testimony that God was indeed there ... no doubt in their minds. Do I believe God caused it? No! Do I believe God could have prevented it? Yes ... but God must give the Great Controversy free reign until the time when He does lose the 4 winds and then we will REALLY see God's wrath.

Intelligent people should read and study ALL of the Bibles and be careful of passing judgment

[cricket]

In order to have some understanding of how serious this tornado was, we need to see how it has been described:

We?

Two huge issues concerning the Lazarus v. tornado analogy:

1) Felix is NOT Jesus,

2) Lazarus was brought back to life.

[Naomi]

[Naomi]

Naomi:

I feel that we have a different outlook of the tornadoes in Oklahoma that is based on the distinctive personal relationship that each one of us have with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Felix, I have not, nor would I ever question your personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ ... and I must say I am so sorry that I am attempting to communicate with a person so bold as to question, analyze or judge mine!!!

Originally Posted By: felix

In order to fully understand our distinctive personal relationship that we have with our Lord Jesus, we need to go to the pages of the Bible and within our minds to do a "time travel" over two thousand years ago in order to personally meet with our beloved Savior Jesus Christ. If we go to John chapter 11 and read verses 1 to 38, while at the same time sensing Jesus' body language through His facial expressions that we could easily figure out through the words of the biblical verses, we are going to witness in our minds why you and I have such a different outlook of the tornadoes in Oklahoma. Such different outlooks is based on factors that are beyond our own personal control.

This tornado was not a regular tornado inflicting damage in Oklahoma. In order to have some understanding of how serious this tornado was, we need to see how it has been described:

[o2bwise]

I don't believe God destroys as I believe it is contrary to His nature.

God recovers, heals, restores.

Sin and sinners destroy.

[Gail]

I don't believe God destroys as I believe it is contrary to His nature.

God recovers, heals, restores.

Sin and sinners destroy.

As well as storms, earthquakes, wind patterns, volcanoes and ocean currents.

[Naomi]

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

You say one of your jobs is to help people be ready to die ...

1. I consider one of my purposes in this world is to help people live and be safe on this old ball of mud and pray that I can help them prepare to live: For Eternity.

The underlined: I very seldom read the lengthy treatises posted so what I say is not meant to touch every point. #1 seems to agree with this first text while the bold gives credence to the second text: "He said, “A nobleman was called away to a distant empire to be crowned king and then return. Before he left, he called together ten of his servants and divided among them ten pounds of silver,saying, ‘Invest this for me while I am gone.’ "

Luke 19:12,13 NLT

"Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be."Matthew 6:21 NLT

Quote:

God gave us the intelligence to develop better medical methods to treat our sick; he gave us scientific abilities to learn any things. When we pray for wisdom, He will grant it.

We can agree that the time of the end is near ... but, IMHO we haven't seen nothin' yet ...

2. nor do I believe one area be targeted to save the masses in another area.

#2 would not seem to be consistent with the war that was solved, at least for the time and area where it took place. This particular verse did not cause death immediately to the enemies of the heavenly host, but any severance from Jesus, Who is the Life, would presuppose their inevitable death in order to secure the safety for the remaining universe.

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place to care for her for 1,260 days.

Then there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels. And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven."Revelation 12:6-8 NLT

3.

Quote:

I haven't the time nor inclination to continue this discussion.

Whew! And I haven't followed it closely!

Quote:

May God bless you and grant you the knowledge to prepare you for the kingdom.

Always an appropriate response, even for the worst of us. And may I suggest you and a few others here on CA have been successful in accomplishing your goal.

"“I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life."John 5:24 NLT

Your whole post.

God cares!

[Guest]

Ok, I give up. Who are you quoting here, Life?

[Guest]

Thank you !!! Sorry but this conversation really hits a raw nerve so I shall not comment further.

What happened? )