What Gospel Do You Believe & Preach?

[Gregory Matthews]

JoMo: You are gracious.

In my response I mentioned briefly what I consider to be the more important verses. It could have been expanded to include other verses. I will leave that for people reading this thread to do.

NOTE: A major contribution of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to our spiritual life today is the so-called "Great Controversy" theme. Properly understood, this is a great comfort--Our spiritual life today is a battle between Christ and Satan. That battle was won at the cross. It is over. It is finished. The only unfinished aspect may be our choice.

[Samie]

Quote:

If a person CAN believe and accept the Lord, isn't that proof he is already part of the body of Christ?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.John 3:3 KJV

Jesus/God saves!

[Samie]

What a blessing to have Elder Matthews & JoeMo in the bandwagon of preachers of the pure gospel, the everlasting gospel that need to be preached just before our Lord returns!

Others more?

[LifeHiscost]

In context this is addressed to certain individuals. If we can be comfortable that we are among those Peter is speaking to we have much for which to be thankful.

Quote:

And when were people born again according to Scriptures?

Quote:

NASB 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

"Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls."1 Peter 1:1-9 NKJV

This promise below fastens more surely my trust in His salvation for me and those for whom I pray.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."Galatians 3:28-29 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

LHC,

When Peter wrote "God caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ", you said he addressed it to specific individuals (1 Pet 1:1-3).

When Paul wrote "you are Abraham's seed", you included yourself in it despite Paul saying he was addressing the churches of Galatia (Gal 1:1, 2).

When I included everyone as addressees of biblical concerns, just like what you did when you included yourself, you object. Don't you realize your unbalanced use of Scriptures?

[JoeMo]

LHC,

It's kinda scary; but I think I am starting to see the nature of your posts (I say scary as a compliment; not a criticism). I think your last post was inspired. When I look at what you posted in context with the verses around it, I can't help but think that we are on a similar path; we just took different routes to get here.

ALL-

I feel this thread has revealed a lot about those who have posted here. It has been a blessing for me. I truly am blessed by the transparency of many of you that have posted on this thread.

[LifeHiscost]

LHC,

When I included everyone as addressees of biblical concerns, just like what you did when you included yourself, you object. Don't you realize your unbalanced use of Scriptures?

I don't recall saying anything about objecting to your conclusions. Please enlighten me as to where I was objecting.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

LHC,

When I included everyone as addressees of biblical concerns, just like what you did when you included yourself, you object. Don't you realize your unbalanced use of Scriptures?

I don't recall saying anything about objecting to your conclusions. Please enlighten me as to where I was objecting.

God cares! Jesus saves!

Oh sorry, if I misread you. I thought THIS POST OF YOURS was in objection to my post regarding the issue of us people being born again through the resurrection of our Lord.

[joeb]

Gregory,

I don't have time to answer you now as my blood sugar is going low and I need to go eat. So... I'll have to answer your post on justification later.

[joeb]

Hi joeb,

I don't mean to give that impression. The last part of 1 John 1:9 talks about Jesus cleansing us from all unrighteousness. To me that means giving us the power to repent (literally "turn around" or "turn away from" - not "ask forgiveness"). If I stop doing what offends you, don't my actions speak louder than my words "I'm sorry for ..."?

I'm not disagreeing with you here. You know I respect your opinions.

What you're saying here is that forgiveness doesn't happen without confession and without asking for it. That's the position I've always held, and which is direct contradiction to that taken by Samie and Gregory Matthews. They believe they are forgiven without confession and without a change of life which, as you pointed out, strongly implies asking for forgiveness. They believe that because Jesus died on the cross they are forgiven. Period. At least that is how I read their posts.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

They believe that because Jesus died on the cross they are forgiven. Period. At least that is how I read their posts.

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."Acts 5:31 KJV

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."

John 14:13-15 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

What you're saying here is that forgiveness doesn't happen without confession and without asking for it.

Just to be clear, I never said one must ask for forgiveness; nor did I say that IMO one must confess each individual sin. Like the publican in the parable, we need to confess that we are sinners, confess our dependence on Jesus as Lord and Savior, and turn away from sin through the power of Christ's Spirit. Is this an instantaneous transformation? From my experience - no. But I am convinced that as long as I get up every time I fall; and I turn my eyes upon Jesus, that my salvation is assured.

I have to admit that I have been mistaken in the past when I have said obtaining eternal life has nothing to do with our own efforts. Eternal life is only obtained as a gift from heaven through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. We must focus on that to receive it. Staying on the narrow path - keeping our faith and focus on Jesus and what He has already done for us - requires a great deal of effort. First of all, there are so many other things to take our focus off of Jesus - money, entertainment, politics, food, friends, self-medication, salvation by works, and church to name a few. It takes effort and concentration to focus on Jesus constantly - it takes self-discipline. When my focus turns away from Jesus - just like Peter - I begin to sink in the waves of this life.

There are some people on here that - with logic and eloquence - have seriously challenged the rationality of my personal Christian faith. I have no logical or eloquent answers for them except to say I take Jesus at His Word. Sometimes that sounds foolish; but it's all I got - but it's enough to get me (and prayerfully others who understand what I'm saying so poorly) to heaven.

[JoeMo]

There are two conflicting adages out there I'm sure many of you have heard:

-" If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

- "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results."

Which one is true? Is it possible that the answer could determine whether or not we have the courage and faith to keep getting up?

[LifeHiscost]

LHC,

It's kinda scary; but I think I am starting to see the nature of your posts (I say scary as a compliment; not a criticism). I think your last post was inspired. When I look at what you posted in context with the verses around it, I can't help but think that we are on a similar path; we just took different routes to get here.

ALL-

I feel this thread has revealed a lot about those who have posted here. It has been a blessing for me. I truly am blessed by the transparency of many of you that have posted on this thread.

Thanks, JoeMo. I'm just a seed sower and if you've found God moving on your heart through one of those seeds, it has far more to do with good soil and the Holy Spirit than it does with me. God qualifies the called instead of calling the qualified.

"Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

2 Corinthians 12:10 KJV

Keep looking up!

God saves! Jesus cares!

[Samie]

Jesus' perfect life and His sacrificial death on the cross gave forgiveness to no one and gave no one a new birth.

...

[Samie]

Sin separates man from God. To be reconciled to God, the sin that separates man from God had to be removed. In other words, man need to be cleansed from sin. Our Lord did that on the cross.

Had we been cleansed from sin? YES:

Quote:

KJV Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Had we been reconciled to God? YES!

Quote:

KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Had we been forgiven? YES!

Quote:

NASB Colossians 2:

13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Does God remember our sins? NO!

Quote:

Hebrews 10:

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

It takes FAITH to believe the above Scriptural pronouncements.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

It takes FAITH to believe the above Scriptural pronouncements.

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:17-19 NKJV

God/Jesus saves!

[Samie]

A bedside scenario:

Man: "Dear Lord, please forgive me of the sins I have committed today..."

Our Lord seemed to have answered: "What sins, son? I don't remember any."

Quote:

KJV Hebrews 10:

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Sins committied, having been forgiven on the cross, are not imputed against man (2 Cor 5:18,19). But the act of sinning is proof that the person is not an overcomer yet, for people are enjoined to overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21); and only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5).

[JoeMo]

Quote:

"What sins, son? I don't remember any."

Awesome Samie:, Simply awesome!! Thats pretty much the way I see it. You acknowledge that God both forgives and forgets our sins; and that He does actually talk to us!

[Gregory Matthews]

Jackson, all of your Biblical texts, taken together, agree with each other and present an aspect of the gospel message.

First, we are called upon, as your texts say, to repent. A standard English dictionary of today, will tell us that to repent includes feeling remorse, regret and a change of mind. Your 2nd and 3rd Biblical citations accurately state that repentance includes forsaking or turning away from a sin. Of course, that involves the Holy Spirit.

One will not be contrite, feel remorse and have a change of mind with a desire to turn away from past conduct unless the Holy Spirit is leading.

Commenting on your 1st Biblical citation: You will note that John preached repentance, which is as I described above--forsaking, change of mind, remorse, turning away from past practice. John also preached, according to that text, remission of sin. Again, a standard English dictionary will tell you that remission is cancellation of a penalty or punishment, a pardon, or to say it another way, forgiveness.

Yes, that is exactly what John preached. His preaching was before the cross. But, his preaching was that there was the coming of a Messiah who would provide forgiveness for their sins, or remission of their sin. He correctly called upon them to repent, to have a change of attitude and to feel remorse.

The Bible is clear: God calls upon people, as convicted by the Holy Spirit, for without the conviction of the HS, we can do nothing, to repent, have remorse and a change of mind, because we are forgiven. Without that change of mind, we reject, as I said in my post, the opportunity to spend an eternity with God and go out of existence due to the fact that absent the power of God there is no life.

The Bible is clear. You are in error when you say:

Quote:

There is no forgiveness without repentance.

[Gregory Matthews]

Jackson, now we come to what you tell us that Ellen White has said in OUR HIGH CALLING, on page 82:

Quote:

Sins not repented of are sins not forgiven. Those who think themselves forgiven for sins of which they have never felt the sinfulness and over which they have never felt contrition of soul, only deceive themselves. . . . Our strength lies in our conscious weakness. . . . In self-distrust we cry to God for help, and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Casting away all confidence in the arm of flesh, we cling with firm grasp to Jesus. . . . {OHC 82.5}

When someone quotes, as you did, EGW to me, I like to go to the cited passage and read what she actually said. I especially like to do that when I see that they, as you did, have left parts of what she said out of the quotation.

So, I went to your cited passage in OUR HIGH CALLING and this is what I read:

Quote:

It is not safe for us to close our eyes and harden our consciences, that we shall not see or realize our sins. {OHC 82.3}

The humble heart will not think confession beneath him. He will not feel it a disgrace to confess if he has in any way, even in thought, hurt his brother or hindered God's work through him. {OHC 82.4}

Sins not repented of are sins not forgiven. Those who think themselves forgiven for sins of which they have never felt the sinfulness and over which they have never felt contrition of soul, only deceive themselves. . . . Our strength lies in our conscious weakness. . . . In self-distrust we cry to God for help, and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Casting away all confidence in the arm of flesh, we cling with firm grasp to Jesus. . . . {OHC 82.5}

You failed to include a very important part of what EGW said. That part is:

Quote:

It is not safe for us to close our eyes and harden our consciences, that we shall not see or realize our sins. {OHC 82.3}

The above provides the context. That context is where people have rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit (close our eyes and harden our hearts) and refuse to repent. IOW, they reject the leading of the Holy Spirit.

By doing so, they exercise their choice and chose not to spend eternity with God.

I should be clear: I do not attribute malice to you in your misuse of Ellen White. I do not attribute an intent to deceive in your failure to properly consider and cite the context in which EGW made her statement.

Rather I suspect that it was just a failure on your part to read what she actually said. I suggest that in the future when you decide to quote her that you read what she said in enough fullness for you to understand the context.

Properly understood, Ellen White supports Biblical teachings. But, what if one might find some instance where, properly understood, she and the Bible disagreed? What would one do then. She was clear about that, as has been cited in other posts. The Bible is the standard. If she and the Bible do not agree, the Bible is the definitive answer.

[JoeMo]

Gregory,

CA is so blessed to have you here. Your spiritual balance, intelligence, eloquence, and expertise in scripture and EGW have resulted in a rare combination of the spiritual gifts of wisdom and discernment. Your posts transcend denominationalism and contentiousness. My hat is off to you, sir!

You say so many things I wish I could say; except you say it much better.

[Gregory Matthews]

You are gracious.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

You are gracious.

Not really; just honest.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

There is no forgiveness without repentance

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1 John 1:10 KJV

"Whoever says, I know Him [i perceive, recognize, understand, and am acquainted with Him] but fails to keep and obey His commandments (teachings) is a liar, and the Truth [of the Gospel] is not in him."

1 John 2:4 AMP

You welcome those who gladly do good,

who follow godly ways.

But you have been very angry with us,

for we are not godly.

We are constant sinners;

how can people like us be saved?

We are all infected and impure with sin.

When we display our righteous deeds,

they are nothing but filthy rags.Isaiah 64:5-7 NLT

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"Isaiah 28:9-11 KJV

Considering these texts, whether in or out of context, I feel safer at any particular time asking God for repentance rather than making effort to prove I don't need it.

As also, since I'm living in the age of the church of Laodicea, it is not a misplaced request.

"“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see."Revelation 3:14,16-18 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!