What Gospel Do You Believe & Preach?

[8thdaypriest]

Heavy stuff here!

Personally, I believe that one's name is written into the Book of Life WHEN he/she enters into covenant with Yahweh thru Christ.

I do not believe the names have all been in there since the world was created.

I believe Christ was "slain from the foundation of the world" because he was the surety SHOULD man sin.

Luke 10:20 “Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

If EVERYONE's name is written in Heaven - then why rejoice because your names are written there?

Philippians 4:3 “And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.”

Why use parchment and ink to say that his fellow workers names were in the Book of Life? - If everyone's names are there anyway.

Hebrews 12:22-23 [speaking to NT believers] “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, . . .”

ONLY THE FIRSTBORN are "registered in heaven".

Nothing can enter the New Jerusalem that "defiles" but this is not talking about "heaven". Satan sinned IN HEAVEN.

Revelation 21:27 [speaking of the Holy City - New Jerusalem] “But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.”

The record of sins - in heaven:

Revelation 20:12-15 [At the final Great White Throne Judgment] “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

The only people being judged here are those whose names do not then appear in the Book of LIfe - they have been blotted out, or never written in (if they refused Covenant). The record of their works (acts) is being reviewed.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Personally, I believe that one's name is written into the Book of Life WHEN he/she enters into covenant with Yahweh thru Christ.

I do not believe the names have all been in there since the world was created.

As to the first sentence, I'd be glad to accept it as more than opinion if it could be found in the scripture.

As to the second sentence, there is no place in the Word that I know of that says anyone "will be written" but this verse indicates something worthy of note as opposed to "will be"".

"But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life."Revelation 21:27 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[8thdaypriest]

There is a study titled "The Book of Life" at my website.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Samie]

Hi Rachel;

1. Is there a Bible verse that hints at one's name being written in the book of life only after the person "enters into a covenant relationship with Yahweh thru Christ"?

2. If none, is the writing of our names since the foundation of the world, contrary to our being chosen before the foundation of the world?

You asked:

Quote:

If EVERYONE's name is written in Heaven - then why rejoice because your names are written there?

Why not, since there are names long blotted out and our names remain?

You again asked:

Quote:

Why use parchment and ink to say that his fellow workers names were in the Book of Life? - If everyone's names are there anyway.

Yes everyone's name WERE ONCE in the book of life, but sadly, many had been blotted out, giving enough reason for Paul's fellow workers to rejoice because their names remain in the book of life.

[BobRyan]

Relative to the issue of the IJ, here are some questions to ponder, Bob:

1. Does sin defile?

2. If it does, then are there sins to be cleansed from the sanctuary in heaven?

3. If there are, then why did God allow sin to enter heaven when He explicitly said NOTHING that defiles can enter there?

[BobRyan]

[Samie]

...

Hebrews 12:22-23 [speaking to NT believers] “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, . . .”

ONLY THE FIRSTBORN are "registered in heaven".

...

That is correct, my Sister.

1. Isn't Christ the FIRSTBORN?

2. If Yes, then did He not attach us to His Body on the cross?

3. If He did, then does that not make us firstborn being the Body of Him Who is the FIRSTBORN?

Yes, all whose names remain written in the book of life are the FIRSTBORN and are "registered in heaven".

[Samie]

Hi Bob;

No offense meant,brother, just to clarify things:

When I first asked you about the IJ and sin entering heaven HERE IN THIS POST, you responded IN THIS POST without questioning me on why I asked about the IJ and the entry of sin to heaven, but instead you gave your TWO reasons which I took to be the reasons why sin was allowed entry to heaven relative to the IJ, since that was the issue of the question I asked.

I countered the reasons you gave one at a time. The first was VIA THIS POST which after around 15 minutes and I got no response, I posted my reply to your reason #2 IN THIS POST, and after a couple of hours came THIS POST FROM YOU asking me why I keep on mentioning sin's entry to heaven, making it appear that you have already told me sins do not enter heaven. Also, it really looks like your post to be quite heavily-loaded, when you closed your post with:

Quote:

Your line of reasoning does not fit at all with the subject of the I.J. What are you doing?

Shouldn't you have addressed the issue of the IJ and the entry of sin to heaven in your first response to me, rather than after I concluded you have no issue against my mention of the IJ and the entry of sin to heaven because you did not object to it in the first place, and I have already posted my two responses, you come back and ask me what I am doing?

No hard feelings here, my brother. Just clearing out the doubts. That said, back to our lively discussion, Bob.

[BobRyan]

Samie in that first post - you link to from me - I said this about the I.J. subject you mentioned in your post.

==============================

Originally Posted By: Samie

Relative to the issue of the IJ, here are some questions to ponder, Bob:

1. Does sin defile?

2. If it does, then are there sins to be cleansed from the sanctuary in heaven?

3. If there are, then why did God allow sin to enter heaven when He explicitly said NOTHING that defiles can enter there?

1. Sin defiles the sinner not the Savior.

2. Sin on the record books of heaven is an "account" that needs to be settled one way or the other. Either the sinner pays for his own debt or the atonement is applied to the sinner's account. The cleansing of things in heaven has to do with resolving the outstanding accounts, unanswered questions using the Matt 7 rule of Christ "by their fruits you shall know them".

3. Not all people are saved even though God "so loved the World that He gave" and Christ's atoning sacrifice was for "OUR sin and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE world" 1 John 2:2.

in Christ,

Bob

So then we are talking about the record of sin in heaven. But recently you switched to murderers going to heave - as if they are unforgiven or wicked, or doing murder in heaven or in some way taking sin itself to heaven - committing sin in heaven. Which is not at all the topic of the I.J.

In the I.J. we only have the subject of the record books - the record of sin being tracked in heaven.

I freely admit that I am not sure what you believe - but I am fairly clear about the I.J. teaching itself.

in Christ,

Bob

[Samie]

Hi Bob;

Pardon my reposting, but had you missed this post, here it is again, for your comments:

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

2. Sin on the record books of heaven is an "account" that needs to be settled one way or the other. Either the sinner pays for his own debt or the atonement is applied to the sinner's account. The cleansing of things in heaven has to do with resolving the outstanding accounts, unanswered questions using the Matt 7 rule of Christ "by their fruits you shall know them".

Here again are some questions to ponder upon:

1. Is there a Bible verse that hints at sins being recorded in the books of heaven?

2. If there is, then are these record books of sin the ones reviewed when God sits in the IJ?

3. If they are, then will God be able to remember the sins of the person whose case is at bar?

4. If yes, then does that mean God will remember our sins despite His promise to remember our sins NO MORE?

Quote:

KJV Hebrews 10:

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[Samie]

...

In the I.J. we only have the subject of the record books - the record of sin being tracked in heaven.

Record of sin being tracked in heaven?

Are you able to reconcile that with God's own statement that He will remember our sins NO MORE?

[Samie]

...

We also know that confessed and forsaken sins are put on the scapegoat after the sanctuary is cleansed Obviously such sins have not been forgotten by God in the sense that Samie is implying or they could not be put on the scapegoat/Satan after the IJ is completed.

...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

your interpretation of a verse causes the Bible to contradict itself then drop your interpretation like a hot potato

In some cases, if the Holy Spirit has led to the interpretation that appears to disagree with another Scripture, it could be the understanding of one or both needs further explanation, perhaps preferably from a further text available by searching, that they might be seen not to destroy the others' essential meaning.

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."Jeremiah 29:13 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

When God says I will remember your sins no more, it must refer to a particular time in the future for Jesus says that such pardoned sins can come back to your account if you revert to disobedience again.

That doesn't sound like my God.

There is no one who is perfect on this earth. Everyone sins, and keeps sinning. Can you imagine the angst everyone would be going through, if, as you contend, God keeps track of everyone's past forgiven sins in order to "reinstate" them every time someone screws up and sins again?

Wowsers. That sort of god bespeaks of puppetry and futility...and in no way is representative of "Good News"...

[JoeMo]

Hey jackson,

I'm with LHC and Pam on this point.

You (and Psalm 77) speak of "Thy way O God, is in the sanctuary" In the sanctuary sin offering ritual, when a sinner brought his sin offering to the priest, what was inspected for perfection? The sacrifice! The priest would make sure that the sacrifice had no blemish; and didn't question the sinners' motives (that I'm aware of). If this is a type for Jesus' ministry, when we bring the "sacrifice" of Christ to the Father as an offering for our sins, the father inspects the sacrifice - not the sinner. The sacrifice is perfect - every time.

[Samie]

Samie, when you see your interpretation of a verse causes the Bible to contradict itself then drop your interpretation like a hot potato.

...

[Gregory Matthews]

Life said:

Quote:

In some cases, if the Holy Spirit has led to the interpretation that appears to disagree with another Scripture, it could be the understanding of one or both needs further explanation, perhaps preferably from a further text available by searching, that they might be seen not to destroy the others' essential meaning.

Good point.

[JoeMo]

We can confess and offer the "sacrifice" for the same sin thousands of times as a "ritual" (without true repentance). God's Spirit continues to strive with us; encouraging us to overcome for years - maybe even decades. Suddenly, after thousands of times committing the same sin and repenting then backliding; something clicks. BAM!! You have truly overcome by cooperating with the power of the Spirit and the Blood of the Lamb; and the thousands of occurences of that sin are remembered no more. No matter how often or badly we fall, God's Spirit will strive with us and encourage us to overcome until our dying breath. He will never leave us or forsake us. The more bitter the battle, the sweeter the victory when we do submit to the power of the Spirit and overcome by the Blood of the Lamb.

[Tom Wetmore]

Still don't see Biblical support for the idea that God unforgives sins for those who sin again.

[LifeHiscost]

Still don't see Biblical support for the idea that God unforgives sins for those who sin again.

I'm supposing no one can speak for another as to the reality when something like this could occur.

"“Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’ When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

“Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it."Ezekiel 33:12-19 NKJV

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"Hebrews 10:25-27 KJV

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

1 John 2:1 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Me thinks the last 3 posts from our forum mates are sufficient enough, bro jackson.

Why do you choose to cause confusion and make the Bible look inconsistent. Who gave you such a disruptive work to do?

William Miller gave sound advice to all who would propose sound doctrine:

To understand doctrine, bring all the Scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then let every word have it’s proper influence, and if you can form your theory without contradiction, you CANNOT be in error. Isaiah 28:7-29; 35:8; Proverbs 19:27; Luke 24:27, 44-45; James 5:19; 2 Peter 1:19-20

You fail to do this and have become an author of confusion.

jackson, do you understand how your words are coming across as arrogant and accusatory, and making you appear rather onerous? (we are not called upon to be "accusers of the brethren".... so, who is doing whose work?)

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Me thinks the last 3 posts from our forum mates are sufficient enough, bro jackson.

Again, Samie you pile scripture on scripture which you interpret in such a way to contradict not only the sanctuary doctrine but the parable of the wicked servant.

You did the same thing with your doctrine of "We are all in Christ at the cross" You were shown how Jesus said that He knocks and you must choose to let Him in (Rev 3:20) and you know that Paul said his sister was in Christ before he was.(Rom 16:7) These two verses alone should give you pause Acts 17:27 and Gal 3:26-27 are additional scriptures which your doctrine contradicts. Why do you choose to cause confusion and make the Bible look inconsistent. Who gave you such a disruptive work to do?

William Miller gave sound advice to all who would propose sound doctrine:

To understand doctrine, bring all the Scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then let every word have it’s proper influence, and if you can form your theory without contradiction, you CANNOT be in error. Isaiah 28:7-29; 35:8; Proverbs 19:27; Luke 24:27, 44-45; James 5:19; 2 Peter 1:19-20

You fail to do this and have become an author of confusion.

Bro Jackson;

I don't remember you directly addressing the OP. The OP summarizes my position. Also, on June 19, I sent you a PM with a link to my position paper that discusses this same issue. I hoped you had gone over that position paper before your post quoted above. I think I had done William Miller's advice in that paper. Did you read there my answers to objections?

Now, can you please explain HOW while still SEPARATE from Christ, a person is ABLE to do the GOOD act of believing so that he can be attached to Him Who said we can do NOTHING while SEPARATE from Him?

I again ask this question because you made it appear in your post that man's act of choosing is done BEFORE a person is attached to Christ and that people can do the good act of opening their heart's door while still separate from Him.

Scriptures teach that our being attached to Christ is God's work FOR us. And now that we are attached to Him Who is our strength, He knocks at our door because He knows we CAN do the good act of opening our heart's door, having been empowered to do good when He attached us to Himself on the cross. If a man doesn't positively respond to His bidding, then it proves the person has not yet overcome the evil of resisting His call. Scriptures say that we should not harden our hearts when we hear His call, and only those spiritually alive can hear.

[JoeMo]

Seeing sin in our life - the result of grace

Realizing our need of a Savior - the result of grace

Realizing that Savior is Jesus - the result of grace

Trusting in Jesus to "fix" us rather than relying on our own puny efforts - the result of grace

Receiving the gift of eternal life - the result of grace

Repenting of our sins - the result of grace

Overcoming our sin - the result of grace

In other words grace obtainable through being reconciled to God by the blood of Jesus Christ did it all!

[JoeMo]

Hey Jackson,

EGW said that present truth would evolve. She also said to never take her writings over scripture. She never claimed to be a prophet, the White Estate and denomination declared her to be so. Jesus Himself said to remove the plank from your own eye before removing the mote from your brother's eye. Just because SDA doctrines were set down more than 150 years ago doesn't mean they were the final word. Look at all the error that was believed for over 1200 years before the Protestant Reformation.

As you have probably seen in previous posts, I am in pretty solid agreement with those who you are lovingly rebuking; so I consider myself lovingly rebuked. Not that it changes my mind on anything...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

that was believed for over 1200 years before the Protestant Reformation

Yes and it was referred to as the "dark ages".

I was listening today to a secular newscaster that said the world today is at a crossroads between an age of enlightenment or another dark chapter in history.

I'm satisfied the book of Revelation paints a pretty clear picture of what will be following shortly. However, clear to whom is defined elsewhere in the Word.

"These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. "

1 Corinthians 2:13-15 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!