What Gospel Do You Believe & Preach?

[Gail]

Well put, Joe! I have the same struggle, although I don't know why it is such a struggle to give it up to God. That is how ingrained our selfish nature is!

[Samie]

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When Jesus says "many are called; but few are chosen", couldn't He be saying that "everyone is invited to be included in the Book of Life; but few unconditionally accept the invitation"? And why don't they accept the invitation? because their self-righteousness demands that they "do it themselves".

Past tense of Salvation: This was when God, contingent upon the death of our Savior on the cross, wrote all our names in the book of life from the foundation of the world. What occurred on the cross were FOR the benefit of man. On the cross, man was fashioned into the Body of Christ. On the cross, all sins - past, present, future - were forgiven when Christ died. When Christ - the Head - resurrected, we - parts of His Body - likewise were resurrected, born again into a living hope of life eternal. All grace. Zero human participation.

Present Tense of Salvation: This transpires during the whole lifetime of the person under the terms of the New Covenant. God dynamically writes His will in the person's heart and mind. This involves non-imputation of sins committed, those sins having been forgiven on the cross. In fact, God remembers his sins no more. But the act of sinning is proof the person has not yet overcome the evil of sinning. He must come to a point in his life where when confronted with the opportunity to commit sin, he decides to do good instead. He is then an overcomer. His name will be retained in the book of life. But non-overcomers will be blotted out.

Future Tense of Salvation: This will start at the 2nd Coming where overcomers will be rewarded with life eternal.

[JoeMo]

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But the act of sinning is proof the person has not yet overcome the evil of sinning.

OK; I'm kinda confused here. Are you saying we must overcome ALL sin in our life (i.e., be perfectly compliant with the Law, as was Christ) before we die or the Lord comes. If that's true; I'm feeling kinda doomed here...

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On the cross, man was fashioned into the Body of Christ.

This is kinda cool.

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Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (Romans 6:3)

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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:10)

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Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. (Romans 16:7)

There are dozens of other scriptural references about believers being "in Christ".

This is kinda weird, but have you ever pondered that if we are "in Christ", that we believers may be counted as having died with Him (including the second death) on the cross; and - being resurrected with Christ, may already be counted (in the spiritual realm) of having - along with Christ - somehow paid the penalty for our sins. I know that's a weird idea; and I apologize if that thought is offensive to anyone. But in all honesty, the thought has crossed my mind.

[LifeHiscost]

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This is kinda weird, but have you ever pondered that if we are "in Christ", that we believers may be counted as having died with Him (including the second death) on the cross; and - being resurrected with Christ, may already be counted (in the spiritual realm) of having - along with Christ - somehow paid the penalty for our sins. I know that's a weird idea; and I apologize if that thought is offensive to anyone. But in all honesty, the thought has crossed my mind.

The only weird thing I see about your surmising would be the personal paying for whatever sins we might be involved in. Since Jesus has paid the full penalty for any and all who are willing to accept His gift, would it not be an insult to His gracious offer, to think we could add anything to His completed work?

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Any good works we do are the RESULT of salvation; not the PREREQUISITE. But they are nonetheless work. The works may not save us; but they show the world that we are changed; and who knows? They may motivate someone else to seek salvation.

I'm satisfied to believe we are saved by works. Those works though, are not our works but the works of the Savior.

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."Philippians 2:12-13 NKJV

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."Gal 2:20 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

Hi JoeMo;

We are only accountable for what God wrote in our hearts and minds INDIVIDUALLY. To him much is given, much is required... to him given less, less is required... God knows our spiritual level of maturity at any point in time. He knows what to write in us for that would be the best for us...

[8thdaypriest]

Our "work" is to surrender ourselves to Christ and rest in His righteousness. This is work! How easy is it to admit that you have fallen short of the mark? How do you resisit the accusations of the evil one that you are not worthy; that you are a hypocrite; and that God is angry with you? How easy is it to approach the throne of grace in our time of need when we think God is angry with us? I have to fight every day to rely on Christ for my righteousness and power to overcome rather than relying on my own efforts. Righteousness is not achieved by right doing; it is achieved right believing and right standing with Christ. The Holy Spirit might convict the world of sin, but He convicts believers of righteousness because He (Jesus) has overcome the world - not us. That's why the Holy Spirit is called the Comforter. See John 16. We don't "earn" grace by doing good works: we do good works cuz we have been given grace. Any good works we do are the RESULT of salvation; not the PREREQUISITE. But they are nonetheless work. The works may not save us; but they show the world that we are changed; and who knows? They may motivate someone else to seek salvation.

When Jesus says "many are called; but few are chosen", couldn't He be saying that "everyone is invited to be included in the Book of Life; but few unconditionally accept the invitation"? And why don't they accept the invitation? because their self-righteousness demands that they "do it themselves".

Thank you Joe. Well said!

It is a very often a struggle to TRUST an invisible Being, who acts in "mysterious ways"- who tells me that I have sinned, and I must change my ways.

When Abraham climbed the mountain and bound Isaac on the alter, that was definitely WORKS. God was asking Isaac to trust HIM completely and unreservedly, and to evidence this trust by his actions.

[LifeHiscost]

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It is a very often a struggle to TRUST an invisible Being, who acts in "mysterious ways"- who tells me that I have sinned, and I must change my ways.

I think that is one reason Jesus was sent by the Father to appear as a Man among men.

"Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "John 14:8-10 NKJV

"And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”"John 20:28-29 NKJV

"Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."Matthew 27:51-53 NKJV

There are only two major mysteries referred to in the Holy Scripture of which I am aware, the mystery of iniquity and the

mystery of godliness. If we are walking in the mystery of iniquity, we are walking in the dark. If we are walking in the mystery of godliness, we are walking in the light. Which is also why added information was given that we might discern the difference between the light and the dark.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thess 5:3-5 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

Samie,

Thank you for starting this thread. It has been a positive discussion of several issues with which people struggle. Yet, even though there are many different opinions, it has never degenerated into "name calling". IMO it is an indication that God is blessing our open-minded and honest discussion here.

[Samie]

Thank you,too, Bro JoeMo for the positive observation. The commendable attitude displayed by our forum mates likewise proves we have followed the leading of the Holy Spirit.

[8thdaypriest]

Were you acting "justly" when you and your husband gave your new-born child your family name with a "FREE PASS" to membership in your household?

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Were you acting "justly" when you and your husband gave your new-born child your family name with a "FREE PASS" to membership in your household?

NOT the same thing at all. Human parents do not give their children eternal life. They are subject to death - much as we would like to protect them from it.

The issue is MEMBERSHIP in a household. As the human parent gives FREE PASS membership to his child, so does our heavenly Father gives FREE PASS membership to His household. All were written in the book of life - the registry of the citizens of heaven - from the foundation of the world. All are heaven-bound UNLESS blotted out for non-overcoming evil with good.

Jesus used the human Father-Son relationship for us to better understand God-Man relationship (see Matt 7:11; Luke 15:11-32). Same case in my use of human family affairs to better understand heavenly affairs.

[JoeMo]

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just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (Rom. 5: 18-19)

This verse seems to support Samie's position.

[8thdaypriest]

The issue is MEMBERSHIP in a household. As the human parent gives FREE PASS membership to his child, so does our heavenly Father gives FREE PASS membership to His household. All were written in the book of life - the registry of the citizens of heaven - from the foundation of the world.

Jesus used the human Father-Son relationship for us to better understand God-Man relationship (see Matt 7:11; Luke 15:11-32). Same case in my use of human family affairs to better understand heavenly affairs.

Bro. Samie,

There is NO VERSE which says that the name of every human being was written in the Book of Life BEFORE the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:8 says that Jesus Christ was "slain from the foundation of the world". The plan was that Jesus Christ would die. That plan was in place from before the creation of mankind.

The verse also says that the Book of Life belongs to "the Lamb". It does NOT say exactly WHEN names were/are written into that book.

"BOOK" OF COVENANT

Hebrews 9:19-24 “For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, ‘This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.’ Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.”

“Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, [the blood of animals] but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” (See Exodus 24:7-8.)

Malachi 3:16-18 “Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who meditate on His name. ‘They shall be Mine,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.’”

Hebrews 12:22-23 [speaking to NT believers] “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, . . .”

ONLY THE FIRSTBORN ARE "REGISTERED IN HEAVEN"

God called Israel His “firstborn” (Exo. 4:22). How do you become an Israelite? You enter into covenant with God thru Christ, and he then will circumcised your heart.

And regarding the "Father-Son" relationship: I believe that God beget a Son in His "express image". The Son was begotten - not created. The Son became the agent of His Father in creation, mediation, redemption and judgment. He REALLY WAS/IS the only begotten "Son of God".

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Samie]

Hi Sis Rachel;

There is NO VERSE which says that the name of every human being was written in the Book of Life BEFORE the foundation of the world.

[Samie]

Some things to ponder about the Gospel:

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The Gospel of the Bible transcends time, that's why it is called the Everlasting Gospel. If the gospel a preacher teaches could not account for those born before the cross, then how can it be the everlasting gospel?

The Gospel of the Bible tells us it is the world that God through Christ reconciled to Himself. If the gospel a preacher brings teaches only Christians God reconciled to Himself, then how can it be the everlasting gospel?

The Gospel of the Bible informs us we were born again when Jesus resurrected. If the gospel a preacher brings teaches that unless one is baptized he cannot be born again, then how can it be the everlasting gospel?

[Dr. Waite]

Here is the gospel I believe in:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Here is the gospel, I do not believe in:

"At the baptism of Jesus the Father called him "my beloved Son." The sonship of Jesus, however, is not ontological but functional. In the plan of salvation each member of the Trinity has accepted a particular role." Gerhard Pfandl, Biblical Research Institute, June 1999

The gospel I believe in is where the Father gave his "only begotten Son" who was truly a Son in being and in existence.

[Samie]

Of FIRST IMPORTANCE in the Gospel that Paul preached:

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NAS 1 Cor 15: 1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

The Savior's death reconciled us to God:

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KJV Romans 5:10 [a] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We need to be reconciled back to God because sin separated us from God (Isa 59:2). So, on the cross, Christ fashioned us all - Adam & Eve and all their descendants - into His Body thereby creating a New Man: Christ the Head, humanity the Body, that we might be RECONCILED to God:

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NKJ Ephesians 2:

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,

15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

When the Head died, the Body likewise died (2 Cor 5:14,15) and we were reconciled to God with all our sins - past, present, future - paid for and forgiven:

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NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

to be continued...

[Samie]

...continuation:

When the Head resurrected, we - His Body - were resurrected TOGETHER with Him, made spiritually alive or born again:

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NKJ Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

The order of the gospel that the apostle Paul preached starts out with what God has already done FOR man. Through Christ, we were already reconciled to Him, we were already forgiven of sins, we were already born again, and being part of the Body of Christ, we are already attached to Him Who is our Strength, and EMPOWERED to do what the Head wants His Body to do. God had ALREADY made us spiritually alive so that we can do the spiritual acts of believing, repenting or deciding to be baptized.

Does this mean all will end up in heaven? No. Only those who have overcome evil with good will inherit life eternal. See Rev 3:5; 21:27.

The order in which the gospel is being popularly preached today has the gospel that Paul preached in REVERSED order: Most preachers believe that people are born apart from Christ and are therefore spiritually dead. By requiring people to first believe before they can be made spiritually alive, they are in effect requiring the spiritually dead to do the spiritual acts of confessing, believing and repenting so that they can be made spiritually alive. Cart before the horse. The apostle Paul warned:

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Galatians 1:8-9 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.