Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH said below:

HCH, my calling your post eisegesis had nothing to do with my agreement or disagreement with what you posted.  I happen to agree with some of what you posted.  But, your post is still eisegesis.    The fact that I agree with some of  your statements does not make such statements exegesis.

Exegesis and eisegesis are not determined by whether or not something is true or in error.  They are determined by the methods by which someone either studies the Bible or how one presents ideas as being Biblical.  I can not   judge your study.  But, your presentation is, especially in the post that I referenced, eisegesis.

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Gregory, the example of exegesis that you erroneously label as eisegesis is evidence of the difficulty in distinguishing between truth and error. Obviously, my post is not in line with your prophetic view and thus it is relatively easy to pigeon hole it as eisegesis rather than to constructively dialog about any of the points that you may question. I consider your comment as posted to be of little value in the pursuit of truth.

[debbym]

The end of all things hinges on conditional promises of God.  God is bringing about those conditions and then he will bring the fullness of the promise.

He said the Gospel of this kingdom will be preached in all the earth then the end will come.  it does not depend on this leader or that leader and what they may or may not do.

When Jesus came the light of heaven rose like the morning sun to the full noon day of light and glory and the persecution came and he was put to death, and he rose.

this will happen again before Jesus comes, and this time when the persecution is in it's roaring... Jesus will interrupt the scene by His appearing.

we do not need any particular man to be a political leader...  that will not bring about the work of the Spirit, the witness to the world, and the end.

Wasn't the glory of Israel something that was greater than Babylon when Solomon ruled?  Then Israel fell into degradation, lead by Solomon through sexual worship of other Gods.  Was not God showing a succession of Kingdoms that were lesser  and lesser in Glory after Solomon's rule until the Glory of the physical kingdom of Jesus should show up in power on the scene?

Just on the banks of the Jordan the last cleansing of the unbelievers who failed on the first arrival at the Jordan, was a test of sensual purity.  We are not to look to politics for indications of the times, but to Jesus himself, to our walk with God, and how God is using us to witness of His character, and to know what God we are giving our worship, the god's of this world or the God of eternity.

[debbym]

7 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I think that it was just as easy to see the light then as now. If it shines. You will see it. To me, thats simple. If it takes some a while to get it, thats ok, and it still wont make it difficult to see this Light when it shines, "The Light of the world is Jesus"  If that Light shines it will be evidenced as "the Daystar rising in a persons heart." (2 Pet 2:19) And that is about the easiest thing I know to see. The best evidence of a true Christian,and of the light of Jesus, (Daystar), is when said person is loving, and lovable. That is the easiest thing on earth to see.

God has not created any hindrance to man seeing the light now or any time.  What blinds is hardness of heart.  Pharaoh saw light and step by step rejected it and went into increasing darkness.  Light shines brightly on us and we see it and it will either increase or decrease depending on our response, our exercise of will.  we will either reflect light or absorb it like darkness that merely absorbs light.  when we use the light to glorify ourselves it is absorbed and not reflected.  When we give God glory it is reflected and will increase.

Jesus is the light that lighted every man that cometh into the world.  God help us in spite of ourselves to give and not just take.

[hch]

 

9 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Easy? wasn't so easy when Jeremiah and Hananiah disagreed way back then. But we can read the outcome and it looks east centuries later. 

 

9 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

lol, and this statement "proves" your "prophecy" to be "correct?"

It never was easy to distinguish between truth and error  because the counterfeit resembles some elements of truth and the devil is actively working to blind us to the truth. 

[hch]

2 hours ago, debbym said:

The end of all things hinges on conditional promises of God.  God is bringing about those conditions and then he will bring the fullness of the promise.

He said the Gospel of this kingdom will be preached in all the earth then the end will come.  it does not depend on this leader or that leader and what they may or may not do.

When Jesus came the light of heaven rose like the morning sun to the full noon day of light and glory and the persecution came and he was put to death, and he rose.

this will happen again before Jesus comes, and this time when the persecution is in it's roaring... Jesus will interrupt the scene by His appearing.

we do not need any particular man to be a political leader...  that will not bring about the work of the Spirit, the witness to the world, and the end.

Wasn't the glory of Israel something that was greater than Babylon when Solomon ruled?  Then Israel fell into degradation, lead by Solomon through sexual worship of other Gods.  Was not God showing a succession of Kingdoms that were lesser  and lesser in Glory after Solomon's rule until the Glory of the physical kingdom of Jesus should show up in power on the scene?

Just on the banks of the Jordan the last cleansing of the unbelievers who failed on the first arrival at the Jordan, was a test of sensual purity.  We are not to look to politics for indications of the times, but to Jesus himself, to our walk with God, and how God is using us to witness of His character, and to know what God we are giving our worship, the god's of this world or the God of eternity.

We need to beware lest we pick and choose which prophecies we accept and which ones we disregard lest we fall into a selected messages mind set. As it was in the Days of Noah is a clear statement as was forgive them 70 times 7.

God will allow an allotted time for His word to accomplish His will and then He will move on. When God specifies a man like Obama as surely as He specified King Cyrus, we do well to pay heed -- that we have looked at the prophecy and understand what is says. If we don't understand the image beast of the third angel's message, we will be more likely to be deceived by him.

[CoAspen]

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 When God specifies a man like Obama......

Not God but you!

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We need to beware lest we pick and choose....

Heeding your own advice?

[hch]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Away with all this devil can do hub bub. He has no final say in anything nor does he have any effect on The Light when it shines. Bible prophecy is ALWAYS a SURE light in a "dark place."  (2 Pet 1:19)

Ho 4:6  "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee..."

[CoAspen]

hch....you are getting real good with the finger pointing when people don't agree with you. I seem to remember a text about 'pride goeth before a down fall'.......

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I actually find Henry's ideas fascinating.  There *can* be hidden meanings in the prophecies of the Bible.  It really doesn't hurt to read what others might find.  Believing or disbelieving what the meanings might be isn't a salvational issue (meaning you don't need to believe in a certain interpretation in order to be saved).  But many people find solace in the projected meanings of prophecies.  

I think Henry is very sincere in his quest.

just my 2¢

[hch]

3 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I actually find Henry's ideas fascinating.  There *can* be hidden meanings in the prophecies of the Bible.  It really doesn't hurt to read what others might find.  Believing or disbelieving what the meanings might be isn't a salvational issue (meaning you don't need to believe in a certain interpretation in order to be saved).  But many people find solace in the projected meanings of prophecies.  

I think Henry is very sincere in his quest.

just my 2¢

Thank you Pam for your kind word. What it really comes down to is this:

If infallibility were the test, the Millerites failed that test in 1843 and 1844 when Christ did not come. And then it appears that to save face they changed the Sanctuary from earth to heaven. Of course, we know that is not the whole truth, but so much for infallibility as a test of prophetic understanding. 

 

If we remembered how God led us in our past history and applied the lesson to how He is leading now, the fact that I correctly said that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013 and that Brexit would occur and that Trump would be elected President (all from studying the scriptures and having made those correct understandings public even a year before they happened) should merit some consideration to my pronouncement as far back as 2008 that President Obama is the last President identified in Bible prophecy. He is going to be in office when Christ Returns according to my reading of Daniel and Revelation.

 

As I currently understand it, the sad thing is that when Obama fulfills Bible prophecy and he takes his third term, the cry will go forth that the Bridegroom is at the door and the foolish virgins won't have time to prepare to meet Him. They waited too long to study the prophecies, they let their time of probation run out and then they will wail, Lord Lord didn't we do this and that for you but He will not accept them. And those who the foolish virgins kept from making ready will blame the foolish ones for their loss...

I don't claim to have all the truth, but I tell what I know at the time I know it and I ask everyone to evaluate it thoroughly and honestly because God does not put things in Bible prophecy that are unimportant. I meet with a group every Sabbath in the Collegedale area and the leader allowed me to speak (just to be polite?), but he did not accept my view. He asked difficult questions. He studied the texts. He asked, is there anyone here that really believes what Henry is saying? A Conference literature evangelist took him aside and "straightened him out." This tossed him into despair; he had two friends telling him opposite things. Then as we studied the Bible again, the Holy Spirit settled the matter in his heart. He had that ah ha moment. "Why didn't you just use these texts and say..." --I thought that is what I had been doing all the time.

 

Not everyone will agree after studying the matter completely. Not everyone, who takes a Bible study becomes an Adventist. But we owe it to ourselves to lay aside preconceived notions and to look at the Scriptures that lead to the conclusion rather than jumping to a conclusion.

 

It is such an easy thing to look at the study with a prayerful spirit as it was to look at the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

[hch]

3 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Miller was never a prophet nor an Adventist. Prophecy is called "the sure word" of Bible prophecy" because its always 100 percent correct. There is not an inch of wiggle room on that point. Your prophecies fail the test completely.

You limit the use of Adventist to an organized church body. I believe that an Adventist is anyone who believes in the Advent of our Lord Jesus.

"This subject was not understood by Adventists in 1844" {GC88 429.1}. " Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward"  {Ev 695.3}.

So you say ... in spite of the fact that I understood the prophecies before they came to pass sufficiently to say that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the Spring of 2013, Britain would exit the EU, and Donald Trump would be elected President (I got all three events correct before they happened) and you think I need wiggle room?

I have listened and restudied the prophecies. President Obama will be the President of the United States after 1/20/17 (when he is supposed to leave office) and President Obama will be President of the USA when Christ comes. I have been saying that since 2008 and it is true as far as I understand Bible prophecy today. Unless you can show me where I have erred from the Bible and/or Spirit of Prophecy, that is the way it will be.

[hch]

The US most likely goes to war with Iran before 1/20/17 maybe between today and 11/22/16 while President Obama is on his final trip abroad as America's President. The wording of the prophecy tells us that it is coming and it could begin while he is abroad, Though it could happen after his return home and still fulfill the wording of the prophecy, I'm aware of the event from studying Daniel 11 and I am prayerfully watching for the fulfillment is at hand.

[JoeMo]

I'm not gonna debate this again until after 1/20/2017.  at that time, I will check back to see if hch has recanted.  Whether the beast/antichrist is Obama, Pope Francis the Mahdi, or a resurrected Alexander the Great is all a matter of speculation - some more feasible than others.  The question we need to ask ourselves constantly is not whether or not we have correctly identified the end-time players, but:

Are you ready for Jesus to come?

Are you faithful in all that you  do?

Are you ready to stand in your place?

Are you ready to look on His face?

Can you look up and say 'This is my God'?

Are you ready for Jesus to come?

If you can answer "yes to these questions, you will be in the Kingdom, no matter what the end-time scenario.

[CoAspen]

Amen!!

[Martn]

Aum

[Martn]

On 11/14/2016 at 5:14 AM, hch said:

President Obama will be the President of the United States after 1/20/17 (when he is supposed to leave office) and President Obama will be President of the USA when Christ comes.

I have been saying that since 2008 and it is true as far as I understand Bible prophecy today. Unless you can show me where I have erred from the Bible and/or Spirit of Prophecy, that is the way it will be.

What we can say --most assuredly-- is that this will not happen.

We aren't taking a wait-and-see approach on this. We don't need to wait. We know this, already, because the facts are plain and abundant.

We have shown you, a thousand different ways, where you are wrong, but you do not want to face facts.

So the shame is on you, when these things do not happen. Shame on everyone who weakens the effectiveness of genuine prophecy by crying wolf.

How do we get people like you to stop doing this?

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

It is immoral and an outrage.

And there are literally millions of people out there right now just like you.

Yeah, sure, you've had some lucky guesses, and that's all they are. You've also had a lot more not so good guesses.

We've all had good guesses from time to time. Everyone has some degree of innate psychic ability. That's all it is. It doesn't mean God is behind it.

[Martn]

On 11/14/2016 at 4:09 AM, hch said:

 

the bronze serpent

Yes. THAT is the Key.

The Key which unlocks the answer to everything else.

Not just any serpent (tannin), but the "bronze Serpent" (the Nachash).

[Martn]

On 11/13/2016 at 8:57 AM, debbym said:

 

He said the Gospel of this kingdom will be preached in all the earth

then the end will come.

Yes.

True.

People have been preaching their dear hearts out for 2000 years, by now literally every where multiple times, and still the end has not come.

By now the message has been preached, at one time or another, to every single people on earth, repeatedly even, and still no end in sight.

Something is missing in the preaching.

The Good News is not only to be preached in every nation, but is to be preached "for a witness" in every nation.

It's not good enough merely to preach it. It has to be demonstrated too, in every nation, and then the end will come.

It's not good enough to talk about resurrecting the dead, which is what the Good News of the Kingdom is.

The power of the resurrection must be demonstrated --literally-- in every nation, and then the end will come.

The dead must rise FIRST. Then everything else will follow.

We have been commanded to raise the dead, but the Church has not done this. Not to the degree commanded.

They have been too afraid to really attempt it. Every initial manifestation of it, so far, has been met with terror and even violence.

"Greater works" will we do than even Jesus did, as he himself foretold.

And that includes, of course, even his own resurrection. For no greater work was there than that.

Yes. The dead must rise --first.

This is not only Good News, but "extremely Good News" as the four angels' message calls it. The time of the dead that they should be judged.

[JoeMo]

36 minutes ago, Martn said:

(the Nachash).

Isn't that the same Hebrew word that is used to describe the serpent in Genesis 3:1?

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made.

[JoeMo]

34 minutes ago, Martn said:

The Good News is not only to be preached in every nation, but is to be preached "for a witness" in every nation.

It's not good enough merely to preach it. It has to be demonstrated too, in every nation, and then the end will come.

" Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. ¹² Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." (John 14:11-12)

"After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. ²⁰ Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it. (Mark 16:19-20)

"Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles." (Acts 2:43)

" I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— ¹⁹ by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ." (Rom. 15:18-19)

The age of miracles continues today.  It did NOT end with the apostles.  Me may not get a miracle every time we ask for one; but by asking we will get (and see) more miracles as we ask for them and look for them.  At my age, being able to transform from horizontal to vertical every day feels like a miracle !

[CoAspen]

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At my age, being able to transform from horizontal to vertical every day feels like a miracle !

Come on, you ain't that old!!

 

[hch]

"For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" (Habakkuk 2:3-4).

[hch]

It is sad. I presented a Bible study that should have received some comments, but what is heard?

The clock runs down as it did in Noah's Day and there are those who want to wait for the rain to fall before they take their stand. Do you know of anyone in Noah's Day who entered the ark after they were positive that Noah's Message was of God?

If they waited to be sure and were lost, should that not inspire us to study NOW to be sure NOW? Is that offering hope for those wait. 

"For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" (Habakkuk 2:3-4).

When the prophet says wait for it, he is not saying to idly wait to see if it will happen. He is encouraging those who have studied the word to anticipate that God's word will not return to Him void. As the prophet instructed--Noah waited for the rain to come. Those outside the ark also waited. The difference between Noah and those outside was faith. By faith Noah waited. In unbelief the others waited. 

There is no promise to us that we can wait in unbelief and then escape the fate of those in Noah's Day who waited in unbelief. Now is the time to study to show ourselves approved of God lest we wait for another day and it is a day too late.

Henry Hills
The only man alive who tweeted 8 times during the 14 months before Pope Benedict retired that Benedict would not be pope after the Spring 2013. The only one who has called the 8 November 2016 election for Obama's third term. Can't happen? Will happen! 

 

[Martn]

8 hours ago, hch said:

his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him

 

[hch]

The condition of the Laodiceans is not as encouraging as that of the Philadelphians.

The problem is not having a different point of view. The problem is an unwillingness to reason together and the Laodicean attitude that translates: Henry's wrong, I don't need to look at it because I have the Bible, the Spirit of prophecy, the pedigree, a solid SDA education... 

 

As I read the parable of the 10 virgins, when we are sure that the Lord is at the door, those who were not prepared do not have time to get ready. So my earnest effort is to encourage everyone to study the facts now and go forward by faith rather than presumption. 

 

Briefly, this is what I consider to be a problem with our understanding of Daniel:

 

Daniel 2:38  "And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."  We understand that this is speaking of the kingdom of Babylon.

 

Daniel 4:20-22  "The tree ... It is thou, O king," We understand that this is speaking of the king of Babylon.

 

The same prophet, the same king, the same sentence, a different symbol and two different interpretations. Thou art the head and thou art the tree should both have the same application to the king or the kingdom. But they are not consistently applied to the king and the kingdom. Thus for one to be true they both must be true: Thou art the head of gold applies both to the king and to the kingdom. And Thou art the tree applies both to the king and to the kingdom.If they both do not apply 1) to the king and to the kingdom, then they must both 2) apply to either the king or the kingdom because it is not prophetically correct to have them to have different meanings. 

 

Those are facts that must be resolved to correctly understand the book of Daniel as we need to understand it.

 

Short and simple. But it is only the tip of the iceberg that prevents us from having a deeper understanding.