Why do you pay tithe?

June 12, 2006

Tithe is 10% of your earnings. Money you work for or money you get from selling your farm produce; however you get paid for your livelihood. I would not expect someone to tithe an insurance compensation. If one should win the lottery it would be nice for them to tithe that but not manditory. Though some church members would be expecting it. LOL If a member is not working and receiving unemployment I feel that is the same as getting paid a wage and would tithe that money. But that is up to the individual. If a member is on welfare, dissability, SSI, pension etc, tithing would be up to their descression and however God wills them.

Personally, since I get paid from two different jobs at different times of the month I wait until the end of the month to tally my tithe. I know some members who tithe quarterly. There have been many times I didnt give the conference my tithe but gave it all to my church because we had the greater need.

June 12, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

I don't understand why we disfellowship people for commiting adultery and other sins, but not robbery.

Gerry

Please show me in the Ten Commandments where it is robbery not to Pay God tithe!

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.

1] “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.

2] “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

3] “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

4] “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

5] “Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

6] “You shall not murder.

7] “You shall not commit adultery.

8] “You shall not steal.

9] “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

10]“You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

June 12, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: I don't understand why we disfellowship people for committing adultery and other sins, but not robbery.

Gerry

Let's not stop there. After all the Ten Commandments are but a brief description of love. Let's go all the way, Gerry, until no one's in church! How does that sound?

As a standard of Christian love even Paul teaches that a mature Christian shouldn't condone/practice sin as described in the last 6 commandments. Let's read this:

Rom 13:9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Again, this is a brief description of sin, but it suffices as a standard of Christian living. The spirit of the law demands much more!

Of course "coveting" isn't an outward sin so you would never know if someone was sinning. That belongs more to the spiritual realm of the law.

Likewise, I can hate you all I want inwardly, but as long as I'm not boxing your ears I can remain in the church.

Or I can lust inwardly at some "babe", but you would never know it because it is an inward desire.

So yes "outward" known, practiced sins shouldn't be tolerated in God's house for Christians claiming Christ. Who says that? Paul (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-13)

June 12, 2006

SInce Robert and Gerry live with closer to each other.

I wonder if it would be possible for you to meet each other.????????

June 12, 2006

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Stan Jensen said:

SInce Robert and Gerry live with closer to each other.

I wonder if it would be possible for you to meet each other.????????

You know, that's ironic...I was thinking this myself. Perhaps the next time my buddy Jack Sequeira comes to NC Gerry can meet me there!?! Maybe we could find some common ground? I mean after all Jack doesn't teach that we should indulge the sinful nature. That's a start, huh?

How about it Gerry, next time Jack's in NC we could meet? He usually is invited at SDA churches...so I could meet you there!

Rob

PS: Gerry is about 200 miles from me....Gerry is closer to heaven in NC. SC is okay, but it must be next to hell cause it's real hot here. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Besides I am partial to NC seeing I am from Hendersonville.

June 13, 2006

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Robert said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

I don't understand why we disfellowship people for commiting adultery and other sins, but not robbery.

Gerry

Please show me in the Ten Commandments where it is robbery not to Pay God tithe!

[:"red"]"You shall not steal." Ex 20:15 NKJ

"And all the tithe of the land....IS THE LORD'S. It is HOLY to the LORD." Lev 27:30 NKJ

"Will a man rob God?

Yet you have robbed Me!

But you say,

'In what way have we robbed You?'

In tithes and offerings.

You are cursed with a curse,

For you have robbed Me,

Even this whole nation.

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,

That there may be food in My house...."" Mal 3:8,9,10 NKJ [/]

Gerry

June 13, 2006

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bevin said:

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what is it about the tithe that is onerous to you?

1 - The SDA denomination does not provide its more naive members with guidance on how much to pay. I am reminded of one such individual who recieved a largish insurance payment to compensate for a genuine loss, who felt that they had to pay tithe on the $$$ - despite the fact it was not enough to cover the loss!

[:"blue"]I don't have my church manual with me, but I suspect it has guidance as to what is tithe. Besides, if it did give specific guidelines like ministers or church employees being told to pay tithe on the gross (correct me Greg if this is erroneous), you would probably complain. I would. [/]

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2 - The SDA denomination does not allow you control over where/how the tithe is spent. Offerings you can tag as going to specific worthwhile causes.

/Bevin

[:"blue"]Neither am I allowed to tell the AMA how to spend my dues, nor can I tell the gov't how to spend my tax dollars. [/]

Gerry

June 13, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

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Robert said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:

I don't understand why we disfellowship people for commiting adultery and other sins, but not robbery.

Gerry

Please show me in the Ten Commandments where it is robbery not to Pay God tithe!

[:"red"]"You shall not steal." Ex 20:15 NKJ[/]

This is in reference to "loving your neighbor as yourself." Be honest! The last six have to do with our relationship to humanity, the first four God....Right? Yes! Nothing is said that tithe is stealing from God in the first, four commandments.

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"And all the tithe of the land....IS THE LORD'S. It is HOLY to the LORD." Lev 27:30 NKJ

That's not from the law of Ten Commandments...that comes from "the book of the law." The Judaizers insisted that believers become circumcised (among other things). Where did they get this idea? The book of the law! Do you know how Paul answered them? "I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law."

So again, Keep to the law of 10 CC to prove your point!

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Mal 3:8,9,10 NKJ

Again, this is not the law! In fact this prophet appeals to the Old Covenant, i.e., "you are cursed with a curse." Giving to God out of fear is absolutely the wrong motive.

Man, you keep getting in deeper. Give it up!

ROb

June 13, 2006

Dave

Top question and observation. I think tithe is the same as Sabbath Keeping. I do not think these are mandatory any longer, as all that we do now is out of Love for God, under Jesus Kingship, rather than trying to appease God by keeping law.

Having said that, I soundly believe that if Jesus is King, and "Lord of the Sabbath", He is also "Lord of Tithe". I believe in Sabbath keeping, having specail time set aside for God, both daily and weekly, because it is good for me. I believe the same of tithe, it is good for me to set aside a portion, and who knows how much I need to give but Jesus. Without the tithe rule in the OT, what other guide do we have to know how much is to much?

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Have you considered that some people, not being able to discern what is reasonalbe, may go over board with their giving and make life for their families very hard. So tithe, for them, may be a boundary to work within <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/untitled.bmp" alt="" />.

Everday

June 13, 2006

Everyday you said you don't believe Sabbath keeping is mandatory, yet you believe in Sabbath keeping.

*scratching my head over this one*

June 13, 2006

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Robert said:Please show me in the Ten Commandments where it is robbery not to Pay God tithe!

Where does it say in the Bible that the last six commandments apply only to man?

Even so, Jesus says "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me. Matt 25:40. How we treat others is a way we treat God. All the commandments are intertwined.

But even more so, look at commandments 1 and 3. Not tithing could be breaking those commandments as well. For some, money=a god, and one wouldn't want to have money before God ("no other gods before me"). Even the Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Commandment 3 I believe is broken with almost any sin if one is calling themselves a Christian.

June 13, 2006

Leave it to Robert to eisegete and "corbanize" (if I may coin a word) the 8th commandment the same way the Pharisees did with the 5th. Maybe he has forgotten that Jesus is man too.

Gerry

June 13, 2006

And which of the 10c did A & E violate?

Gerry

June 13, 2006

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So yes "outward" known, practiced sins shouldn't be tolerated in God's house for Christians claiming Christ. Who says that? Paul (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-13)

[:"blue"]Hmmmmmmmm. By "practiced sins shouldn't be tolerated in God's house for Christians claiming Christ," you mean we should keep the commandment not to dishonor our parents? Not murder? Not fornicate? Not steal? Not bear false witness or covet? [/]

Gerry

June 13, 2006

Frankly, the more I hear from you what Jack teaches, the less I want to hear him. But perhaps it would give me a chance to hear what he really believes. Yeah, let me know when he comes somewhere close by.

He recently was quoted in the review something to the effect that, "we sin because we are sinners," to which I replied (and was published in the letters to the editor section), did Lucifer, Adam & Eve sin because they were sinners?

But yeah, I'm willing to hear him out.

Gerry

June 13, 2006

Hey Sid. Calling me to explain. I deserve that! You said, "Everyday you said you don't believe Sabbath keeping is mandatory, yet you believe in Sabbath keeping.

*scratching my head over this one*"

As you will be aware, Sabbath Keeping, even in Moses law, was different (Not a "Thou Shalt Not", but a "Remember" command). It is a differant law. God could have said, "Thou Shalt Not break the Sabbath", but He chose not to. I believe this is because it was originaly God's time. Unlike the other laws, the Sabbath existed before Humans had any law at all. The Sabbath was God's time of rest. When God gave mankind the Sabbath, He was giving us a gift, He was sharing His time with us. Any busy parent will know how hard it can be to share your personal time with your kids. But God wanted to share that with us, and He did. I believe God wanted us to remember that He had given us this gift. What parent would give a gift to their children, and then use that gift to condemn them. Not a gracious parent like my Father in Heaven.

God does not want me to keep the Sabbath because it is mandatory. He wants to spend time with me. Does anyone get that? God wants to spend time with us. Thank you for loving me Father <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/1_prayer001.gif" alt="" />

I think we need to remember though, that if we want to spend all day with God, we need to do it on the Seventh day, as that is God's only day off <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

June 13, 2006

I also believe God wants us to obey Him out of love. That's really the only way to go. I run in the path of your commands, for you have set my heart free Ps 119.32. Just because our obedience is manifest out of faith and love, keeping the Sabbath, as well as the other 9 commandments are still mandatory, it's God's law.

June 13, 2006

Sooooooooo, when you take or withhold what God says is His, what do you call it?

Gerry

June 13, 2006

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Sid said:<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:Please show me in the Ten Commandments where it is robbery not to Pay God tithe!

Where does it say in the Bible that the last six commandments apply only to man?

Even so, Jesus says "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me. Matt 25:40. How we treat others is a way we treat God. All the commandments are intertwined.

Jesus came in our humanity....That's the quote. My point still stands untouched!

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...look at commandments 1 and 3. Not tithing could be breaking those commandments as well. For some, money=a god, and one wouldn't want to have money before God ("no other gods before me").

If you tithe for gain, money is your God. You are just it doing within the realm of religion. Giving to get is not giving....

Again, nothing is said in the law about tithing. You're reaching....

Rob

June 13, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

And which of the 10c did A & E violate?

Gerry

Eve wanted to be "as gods"

Adam chose Eve over God.

June 14, 2006

I believe our relationship with God matures beyond the mandatory stage, just as my relationship with my children will mature as they grow up. In time they will keep my laws, eg. clean their teeth, do their home work, etc. because they have become their own laws of life. Being stuck in keeping God's law because it is arbitrated suggests to me that a person who keeps the law that way would find being Christian hard work. In fact, I think long term life in law keeping breaks the keepers heart. The Holy Spirit is here to help us grow beyond that mandatory stage. This is why Jesus could take His disciples into the paddock and pick grain on the Sabbath. They had gone beyond the mandatory, because they had a relationship with Jesus. Jesus came to show us how to live. The law came to show us how to die (to reveal sin). I worship God, not the law. To worship is to obey, but today we obey the Holy Spirit who helps us keep the law. Without Him, law keeping is no more than idol worship, as we worship ourselves if we think we can keep God's law on our own. We even need the Holy Spirit to understand God's Law. I thank God that He has sent the Holy Spirit, as without Him I would be lost. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/iamthebest.gif" alt="" />

June 14, 2006

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Sid said:...the Sabbath, as well as the other 9 commandments are still mandatory, it's God's law.

Then you will be lost because, if you are honest, you are failing to live the Spirit of the law. Again, the law is not in the business of forgiving. It requires perfect performance, perfect motives...perfect thoughts!

Go to Romans 7:1

Do you not know [well do you?], brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law [and Adventists claim to know the law] — [:"red"]that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?[/]

IF you are living then the law has jurisdiction over you! That's not good, do you know why? You're still a sinner and the law says you must die for eternity. No resurrection for you!!!!

What's the solution? You gotta die, man....

Well, I'll tell you as far as the law is concerned I am dead. The law can't demand obedience of a dead man, can it?

Verse 4: So, my brothers, you also died to the law [it demanded your death, where?] in the body of Christ, that you might belong to another [Jesus], to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Yes, while we rest in Christ's finished work we will experience fruit, but please don't play the pope and decide at what level another brother or sister should be spiritually!

5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature [when the mind and the flesh were in perfect harmony], the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.

In other words before you accepted Christ your mind was at war against His love, but now your mind/heart is harmony with His love. However, your flesh remains at odds with your mind.

The point is outside of Christ you bore fruit unto death because the law condemned you!

verse 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us [the law], we have been released from the jurisdiction of the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit [grow], and not in the old way of the written code [the dos and don'ts].

The law no longer has dominion over you. Why? You died “in Christ”!

June 14, 2006

Blah blah blah whatever. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

June 14, 2006

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Robert said:

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LifeHiscost said: [:"red"] "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully." [/] 2 Corinthians 9:6 KJV

Giving to get, is it really giving? God looks at our motive. To me many people pay tithe for self-centered reasons.

My thoughts,

Rob

There is no doubt in my mind that Christians in general believe it to be wrong to give in order to get. It would be interesting to hear your reasoning about why our Father counsels us to give in order to get. Is He deliberately laying a trap for the Christian so that He can legally condemn him, as your reasoning would seem to imply.

[:"red"] "And lead us not into temptation...." [/] Matthew 6:13 KJV

[:"red"] "But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." [/] Rev 3:4,5 NASB

[:"red"] "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this: I know your deeds... Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world...

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. [/]

Rev 3:7,8,10,12 NASB

[:"red"] "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." [/] Rev 3:21,22 NASB

[:"red"] "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

[/] 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV

Keep the faith!!

June 14, 2006

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Amelia said:

Tithe is 10% of your earnings. Money you work for or money you get from selling your farm produce;

[:"red"] "The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God" [/]

Exodus 23:19 KJV

[:"red"] "...and the firstlings of our sons, and of our cattle, as it is written in the law, and the firstlings of our herds and our flocks, to bring in to the house of our God, to the priests who are ministering in the house of our God. " [/] Nehemiah 10:36 YLT

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