Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 I just replied on the singles thread and wanted to post that reply here. _________________________________________ Quote: And God knows how much the SDA Church today is IN NEED of revival and reformation. ________________________________________ That's the problem.....it's just God. A reformation is needed among the people, but it should first begin its purifying work with the ministers . They are watchmen upon the walls of Zion, to sound the note of warning to the careless, the unsuspecting; also to portray the fate of the hypocrite in Zion. It seemed to me that some of the ministers had forgotten that Satan was yet alive, as persevering, earnest, and artful as ever; that he was still seeking to allure souls from the path of righteousness. {1T 469.3} Related to 1st lesson of Daniel>>>>>>> One important part of the work of the ministry is to faithfully present to the people the health reform as it stands connected with the third angel's message as part and parcel of the same work. They should not fail to adopt it themselves, and should urge it upon all who profess to believe the truth. HEY!! Pay attention I'm not through!! ------------------------------ Acts 20 "25": And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. "26": Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. "27": For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. "28": Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers , to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. "29": For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. "30": Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. "31": Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. There are over 30,000 verses in the bible. Some pastors are at churches 2 years..some longer... When you have the usual TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON with a 2 to 3 verse text chosen and the clergy pulpit speaker rambles on with the topic/theme related to that portion of scripture with jokes and stories..minimal teaching..PUKE!!!..you get about 100 topics covered in 2 years...MAYBE.. you got to throw New year's resolution, Religious Liberty, Valentines, Easter, Mother's Day,..maybe Father's day, Patriotic 4th of July day, Pathfinder day, Back to school education day, Thansgiving Day, Christmas sermon, an all musical worship service..PUKE!!!, and gimme, gimmee, TITHE sermons. Then there are the testimonial no sermon days..and throw in the 4 micro sermons for the Communion sabbaths where the trite samo samo, shallow junk is presented...ZZZZZ Guess how much of those 30,000 verses get presented in 2 years????.....PUKE!!!! So don't get me wrong...but much preaching is so limited regarding the whole counsel of God ...in the SDA denomination.. It is really a preach eschatology, paranoia, prophecy, Laodicea, Jesus wil never leave you or forsake you no ,matter how fleshly worldly, backsliding, you are..just keep coming to church and don't ignore the offering plate..and kissie to the speaker, don't make waves...and we'll all be in Heaven....zzzzzzzzz Quote
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming... the 3ABN flap/gossip/bribe/corruption/affair/tabloid rag stuff Quote
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Quote: We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming... the 3ABN flap/gossip/bribe/corruption/affair/tabloid rag stuff =============================== Well JimBob since I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet, even being least in my fathers house I will tell you what is on the horizon. [take this with a grain of salt, since the warning label on my package now containes these words..."Ed is an eccentric"] But court is still in session in heaven. Just barely! Big money needs to be raised immediately due to mega millions in lawsuits, so look for a push for all churches to "GET OUT OF DEBT" and pay off their church morgages. Once that is done, then leadership will allow the big ones to be hocked to the hilt behind the members back. I would not [NEVER]say this as though it has never happened before. Quote
Nicodema Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 You know ... there are so many human voices out there, with so many human emphases on different things ... that sometimes I find it impossible to sort out where God wants ME to be focused. Is health reform, for example, or any other "lifestyle alteration praxis" really that important to my relationship with God? Especially considering it's not the letting go or relaxing of these things that leads to messing up that relationship but rather (for me personally anyway) it happens the other way around -- first something gets in the way of the relationship and THEN those things will go slack in my life. Picking up that slack doesn't fix the gap in my relationship w/ God, though if/when the gap gets fixed eventually as a matter of course I tend to resume those things ... People will tell me all sorts of things that are Biblical and "sound", and well worth considering in themselves -- I'm talking of those who have good info and good counsel to share -- and yet I find myself wondering what does God really want me to focus on in my life? What is He looking at right now and deeming most important and most vital for me? And the problem is, just as I can't trust the flood of input from others -- all of whom have their various areas of focus that are currently important to THEM in "the work" -- so I cannot trust my own mind either. If I feel it is some area that is easy, how do I know I'm not just coddling myself? If I feel it's in some area that seems harshly indicting of myself, how do I know that's not the classic well of poison ploy from Satan rising up from within to drive me away from God through frustration and self-loathing and depressive reactions? I really need to hear from God but when I open my Bible, HE is "all over the place" too! No wonder -- He has to reach a gazillion people where THEY are in THEIR walk, life, faith, need, etc. -- but it doesn't help me determine any clearer what I need to be looking at, studying, and learning right now. I'm confused. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Yep...the bible is multifaceted... Here is what my brother usually says when we are getting on the fringe of conjecture/speculation Micah 6 "8": He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Now I know this simple verse is loaded with personal application..which the Holy Spirit can impress each individual where there is room for growth. Quote
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Nico said this. "I really need to hear from God but when I open my Bible, HE is "all over the place" too! ========================= I have a solution, THE SOLUTION! Open your bible after prayer and when you find something required of you close your bible and GO DO THAT! Then when you come again to read say, "Oh Lord you were so RIGHT, what else do you want to show me that PLEASES YOU!" Quote
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Posted September 30, 2004 Ya see if a preacher would take that one verse...and exegete it competently...he could get 3(THREE) topics out of that.. Justly Mercy Humbly Quote
Guest Posted October 1, 2004 Posted October 1, 2004 Quote: Ya see if a preacher would take that one verse...and exegete it competently...he could get 3(THREE) topics out of that.. Justly Mercy Humbly ====================== JimBob it appears as though we both posted about the same times so your words above do not apply to me, but the solution I suggested for Nico DO APPLY TO ME! How about you, have you ever been a the same crossroads of which Nico speaks?? Quote
Guest Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Quote: How about you, have you ever been at the same crossroads of which Nico speaks?? Not that I can recall.. Personally ..advice, suggestions, comments are like arrows aimed at a target...ME... the Holy Spirit has had His time enough with me that I know which ones hit the bull's eye. I know who and what I am..and what my purpose is.... TO MINIMIZE NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS. Thanks for asking Ed. Quote
cricket Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Wondering about something...TTSs...instead of preaching against TTSs, why not spend time encouraging non-TTSs? Quote
Guest Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Been there and done that... We had a poster here who called those exegesis sermons ..spinach.. Must have been forced to watch POPEYE cartoons or somethin...who knows?? Ya see when people have been on a milk diet so long...they get spiritual constipation on the meaty expository ones. Also for the preachers who are used to old wine skins...they hav eproblems with the other type Quote
LifeHiscost Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Quote: I know which ones hit the bull's eye. I know who and what I am..and what my purpose is.... TO MINIMIZE NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS. And yet you continue giving one (the same one, though short) on this forum, do you not? I've heard it said, 'It takes one to know one'. [:"red"]"But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? [/] Romans 2:3 Courage! Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Bille Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 JimBob7 wrote: Quote: Quote: How about you, have you ever been at the same crossroads of which Nico speaks?? Not that I can recall.. Hmmmm..........then you don't really have any answers for her stated problem, do you. Quote: Personally ..advice, suggestions, comments are like arrows aimed at a target...ME... the Holy Spirit has had His time enough with me that I know which ones hit the bull's eye. I know who and what I am..and what my purpose is.... TO MINIMIZE NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS. But how do you know that what you think is your "purpose" is really God's purpose for your life? How do you know that what you disdainfully call TTS does not contain the very "leaves from the tree of life" that some of the listeners of those sermons need most for the healing of their soul and spirit? How do you know that your "MNFDMTTS" banner is not an ever enlarging shield that deflects the very "arrows" aimed by the Holy Spirit from their intended "target"??????? Quote: Thanks for asking Ed. Yes, "thanks for asking, Ed", I think we learned a lot from the given answer. Quote
Guest Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Quote: And yet you continue giving one (the same one, though short) on this forum, do you not? I've heard it said, 'It takes one to know one'. I am on a forum..not in a pulpit.... Even when I teach sabbath school... it is not a one topic event. Nice try.. Quote
Guest Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 Bille, A preacher could go up to the pulpit and say a 2 word sermon.. Be nice"...and you could conclude the same thing. What is your personal vege-beef with my purpose? Quote
Moderators LynnDel Posted October 2, 2004 Moderators Posted October 2, 2004 JimBob, Just thinking. . . The trouble with riding a hobby horse - having one major issue that you often address - is that it can get to the point when people see your name at the head of a post, they will think to themselves, "I know what he's going to say," and not bother to read it. It has been my personal experience that it is the rare professional sermon giver who can take kindly to sermon suggestions. It is human nature to consider one's creations, including sermons, in the same light that some might view their grandchildren or their pet. Love me, love my dog. Love me, love my sermon. I have not ever seen any church member effectively influence sermon preparation or delivery, and only sometimes content. Constructive criticism is only useful if the target is listening or wants to improve. I think your hobby horse is firmly rooted in one spot. It ain't gonna go anywhere, JimBob. LynnDel Quote LD
Nicodema Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 There's an EGW quote that addresses this whole thing rather nicely. I believe it's from MH p. 143? Anyway ... it addresses the whole topic of sermonizing itself, and summarizes the matter quite nicely: "Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me." There is need of coming close to the people by personal effort. If less time were given to sermonizing, and more time were spent in personal ministry, greater results would be seen. The poor are to be relieved, the sick cared for, the sorrowing and the bereaved comforted, the ignorant instructed, the inexperienced counseled. We are to weep with those that weep, and rejoice with those that rejoice." Seems it doesn't matter whether sermons are topical or exegetical, meaty or milky -- the bottom line is, less talk, more action; less preaching, more personal involvement. Personally, I second that notion. N. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
Guest Posted October 2, 2004 Posted October 2, 2004 OK..NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON DOPER,BIBLEHATING GAINSAYERS...LISTEN UP!! I just got off the phone with a friend who is head deacon where John Bradshaw of Amazing Facts is doing an evangelistic series. The title of his sermon today was.... "The 2 preachers who stopped coming to church." Guess what the 2 preachers are???? The OLD and NEW TESTAMENTS?? the theme being that the exposure of the bible from the pulpit is getting low/minimized. Want to pick on John too?? Maybe he is reading my TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON posts on the internet.. AND another thing....if I ceased my campaign...then new people on the forums like Bille etc..would not have someone to agitate them. BTW..Nico..I think you know I am very familiar with the MH 143.(MSNCF).since I usually use it in my outreach tirades along with FORT and CLIRTS Quote
Guest Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 Anyone care to share the sermon debriefing of today from their church??? As much as I think my current pastor is a for real serious, no nonsense, caring pastor... today's TOPICAL SERMON covered 3 verses and used 4 stories.. let's see 3 verses a week and 30,000 verses in the bible....hmm Do we have 10,000 weeks/sabbaths til Jesus comes??? SDA..people of the book??? Who started that Urban legend anyway????? OH....in the SS class we covered at least 21 verses in Daniel and used at least 2 other verses for elaboration and covered .. Outreach, exclusivity, health and holiness connection,(brain scans of the frontal lobe), great controversy, prayer, seeing the writing on the wall, countering secular humanism...and more... Quote
Guest Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 Quote: It has been my personal experience that it is the rare professional sermon giver who can take kindly to sermon suggestions. I have not ever seen any church member effectively influence sermon preparation or delivery, and only sometimes content. Constructive criticism is only useful if the target is listening or wants to improve. I think your hobby horse is firmly rooted in one spot. It ain't gonna go anywhere, JimBob. LynnDel 2 Timothy, chapter 4 "1": I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; "2": Preach the word ; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. "3": For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; "4": And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. That is ok...I am posting for that rare clergy who hasn't gone deaf...they are one in a thousand. Ever read about George Whitefield? He knew exactly what I am talking about. Quote
Guest Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 darlene, Hurry up ...I can't stand the suspense!! Quote
darlene Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 JimBob7, I am not a trained preacher but, I preach. I believe that the Lord gives me the topic to preach on; be it a topical sermon or any other kind of sermon. I take my direction from Him and speak on the topic that He gives that is necessary for the group I speak to. I believe that there are many other speakers who do the same thing. So, if the Lord gives me a topical sermon, in your estimation that is wrong? When I look at the life of Jesus, I see that He used parables (stories) most often. Common everyday stories which reached the hearts of the common everyday folk. Jesus was in the business of reaching hearts. So, today many times the topical sermons reach hearts more readily than does a theological sermon. Theological sermons most often benefit an educated audience. I know, because I am a common person and I can understand stories better than theological sermons. Quote
Guest Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 Quote: JimBob7, I am not a trained preacher but, I preach. I believe that the Lord gives me the topic to preach on; be it a topical sermon or any other kind of sermon. I take my direction from Him and speak on the topic that He gives that is necessary for the group I speak to. I believe that there are many other speakers who do the same thing. So, if the Lord gives me a topical sermon, in your estimation that is wrong? Yeah..He places a topic on your heart..He doesn't provide the homiletics/sermon. Quote: When I look at the life of Jesus, I see that He used parables (stories) most often. Common everyday stories which reached the hearts of the common everyday folk. Jesus was in the business of reaching hearts. So, today many times the topical sermons reach hearts more readily than does a theological sermon. Theological sermons most often benefit an educated audience. I know, because I am a common person and I can understand stories better than theological sermons. You can understand stories better because.. even the pastors are not sufficiently trained. Don't know if you ever saw the thread I posted about the sermon on the mount ..how it all can be read in 13 minutes (Matt 5-7)and covers...as you know many topics.. Thanks for the post..I appreciate you preaching.. Here is some more input.... When God places on your heart a topic...find it in several places in scripture where the topic is covered. Focus on the most comprehensive text dealing with that topic. Then look at the surrounding support context. As you use SOP or a commentary see how the supporting context deal with the cognitive/relational tangents of that topic. As you preach with the comprehensive text.. with your topic as the main theme...you can minister to a variety of maturity levels that way..because you add detail and bridges to the topic....hope that makes sense to you. You see..the Spirit inspires the text and the flow/buildup.. toward the theme..as well as the following verses are also inspired. This way the listener can have the aid of the Holy Spirit when the are edging toward that theme in their life and hear clues/warning that they are nearing boundaries or be encouraged as they get clues that they are approaching ground that is blessed. This is edifying for the faith experience. Most preachers rarely share this. They attempt one hit wonders and it handicaps the believer Quote
Nicodema Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 Quote: OK..NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON DOPER,BIBLEHATING GAINSAYERS...LISTEN UP!! BTW..Nico..I think you know I am very familiar with the MH 143.(MSNCF).since I usually use it in my outreach tirades along with FORT and CLIRTS (1) You'll have to speak English -- I have no idea what a MSNCF, a FORT or a CLIRTS is. (2) Are you angry with me? Or with the pen of inspiration? All I did was quote EGW. I didn't even turn her into a CLUB for ADVENTISTS. Quote: (NK quoting EGW) "Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me." There is need of coming close to the people by personal effort. If less time were given to sermonizing, and more time were spent in personal ministry, greater results would be seen. The poor are to be relieved, the sick cared for, the sorrowing and the bereaved comforted, the ignorant instructed, the inexperienced counseled. We are to weep with those that weep, and rejoice with those that rejoice." Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
Guest Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 Reviewing.... Quote: (NK quoting EGW) "Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour M ingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His S ympathy for them, ministered to their N eeds, and won their C onfidence. Then He bade them, " F ollow Me." MH 143 MSNCF Primary and my favorite outreach SOP quote Another Church outreach acronym.. FORT Discuss with others... Family Occupation Religion Testimony ----------------- Another outreach acronym taught in evangelical circles CLIRTS Confrontational (Day of Pentecost speech by Peter) Logical (Paul on Mar's hill) Invitational (Disciple inviting another disciple.."Come and see") Relational (Jesus to the woman at the well) Testimonial ("I used to be a drug pusher and into Satanism and found Christ") Service (Here let me help you with that issue.or.have you had breakfast today?) The wild intro talk was addressed to whoever.. Quote
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