CONVERSION

[Amelia]

Can't satan hear silent prayers, or just audible ones?

[Stan]

I just posted a thread on prayer...

[David Koot]

Can't satan hear silent prayers, or just audible ones?

No, satan can't hear silent prayers. He cannot read your thoughts. (Nice to know, isn't it?!)

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Curious, does it make a difference to the answer?

Certainly it can. Satan can hear your prayer for a sign, and give you the WRONG sign. That is if a person has chosen to bypass Scripture, which speaks directly to the question, and rely on a 'sign' instead.

Dave

Hey No fair. I did not think my point was that obvious. Yes that was my point exactly. Whenever I pray for a sign I NEVER pray outloud for that VERY reason.

[CyberGuy]

Can't satan hear silent prayers, or just audible ones?

Satan cannot read mind. He can hear us or read lips or whispers but he cannot read minds. Only God can read our minds. Satan can also read our faces as he and or his angels has made it a lifetime project to know each and every one of us if one believes each of us has an angel from both sides with us all the time.

[Jeannieb43]

Satan cannot read mind. He can hear us or read lips or whispers but he cannot read minds. Only God can read our minds. Satan can also read our faces as he and or his angels has made it a lifetime project to know each and every one of us if one believes each of us has an angel from both sides with us all the time.

What is your authority for this statement?

Not questioning your truthfulness, just wondering where it is written.

I do know I personally heard H.M.S.Richards, Jr. once say in a sermon that he always prayed half his private devotional prayer aloud and half silently, since he didn't want Satan to know everything he was praying about.

[so I guess if HMSR Jr. said it it must be verifiable.]

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

Satan cannot read mind. He can hear us or read lips or whispers but he cannot read minds. Only God can read our minds. Satan can also read our faces as he and or his angels has made it a lifetime project to know each and every one of us if one believes each of us has an angel from both sides with us all the time.

What is your authority for this statement?

Not questioning your truthfulness, just wondering where it is written.

I do know I personally heard H.M.S.Richards, Jr. once say in a sermon that he always prayed half his private devotional prayer aloud and half silently, since he didn't want Satan to know everything he was praying about.

[so I guess if HMSR Jr. said it it must be verifiable.]

Ellen G White is my authority on that. Unless you do not believe her. I remember reading that in her writings once.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Learn to pray short, and right to the point, asking for just what you need. Learn to pray aloud where only God can hear you." {GW92 425.3}

[David Koot]

Quote:

"Learn to pray short, and right to the point, asking for just what you need. Learn to pray aloud where only God can hear you." {GW92 425.3}

Looking at the section, it appears to be an appeal to Conference workers made in the aftermath of the Minneapolis Conference. The emphasis seems to be the individual worker's prayer life. It does not look to me as if it addresses the specific question at issue.

In another book addressed to ministers, the same author describes the preacher writing his sermon notes, and satan standing by his shoulder to see what he is writing, then going out to arrange circumstances so that the very ones who need to hear the message are gone from church that week. I read that years ago, and do not have the reference at present, since my library is gone.

Dave

[David Koot]

Hey No fair. I did not think my point was that obvious.

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

Hey No fair. I did not think my point was that obvious.

What's the old saying about 'great minds'?

Quote:

Yes that was my point exactly. Whenever I pray for a sign I NEVER pray outloud for that VERY reason.

I knew someone who was trying to decide if he should marry a particular woman, and he prayed for a sign--out loud. He asked God to wake him up at 2 a.m. if he was supposed to marry this woman. Well, he woke up at 2 on the dot, went ahead and married her, and that marriage was, how shall I put it, hell on earth.

Dave

Yeah and sometimes we do not pay attention when God tells us. I to had a question about my first girlfriend I wanted to marry. I prayed silently that God would show me in his bible the answer. I opened up to a book in the bible where it said you would find your wife sleeping with other men etc. I slammed the book shut and went ahead and married her. Well that is exactly what happened. Oh well. So my point is that even when God shows us outright what will happen we do not always pay attention to Gods answers.

[David Koot]

But getting back to our Mormon friend's claim about the reliability of feelings and the Holy Spirit . . . I have listened to Mormon missionaries and devotees in the past. I have asked them some of the very questions which have been posed on this thread. Here are the answers I was given:

Q How do you know it is the Spirit of God?

A You will feel a warmth and a swelling in your breast.

Q2 Couldn't satan give you a warm feeling and a swelling in your breast?

A2 You will see an angel who will tell you it is of God.

Q3 How will you know it is an angel of God? Doesn't satan appear as an angel of light?

A3 If it is God's angel, you can reach out and touch him. (said with eyes big and conveying veracity.)

(End of discussion. I was dumbfounded.)

My analysis:

1) the 'warm feeling' and 'swelling in breast' phenomena can be brought about by satan.

2) In my experience, God has not given me a particular 'feeling' or physiological phenomenon. I think it is because such can so easily be counterfeited.

3) Satan CAN appear as an angel of light, and CAN if necessary, seem to be 'touchable.'

Reflection: How could so very many people be snookered?

[LifeHiscost]

Whenever I pray for a sign I NEVER pray outloud for that VERY reason.

That would pretty much put a person who acted as Daniel did, kneeling in prayer with windows wide open for everyone to see, perhaps even to hear, at a disadvantage for being unabashed in his relationship with God. That appears to be contrary to this counsel.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16 KJV

The faith one has in God's power to do as He will, letting Him determine how far Satan is permitted to interfere with the prayers of the children of faith, will permit no interference that would sidetrack the request of a believing soul, request heard or not.

"....for the battle is the LORD'S...

1 Samuel 17:47 NASB

"For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places." Eph 6:12 NLT

There is no doubt our Father allows us to work out whatever plans we are confident will outwit the evil one. I'm satisfied that in the end only our Father's plans will be successful.

Regards!

[CyberGuy]

None of those bible quotes implys they are talking about prayer does it?

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43

What is your authority for this statement?

Not questioning your truthfulness' date=' just wondering where it is written.

I do know I personally heard H.M.S.Richards, Jr. once say in a sermon that he always prayed half his private devotional prayer aloud and half silently, since he didn't want Satan to know everything he was praying about.

[so I guess if HMSR Jr. said it it must be verifiable.']

Ellen G White is my authority on that. Unless you do not believe her. I remember reading that in her writings once.

"There are many who are really troubled because low, debasing thoughts come into the mind, and are not easily banished. Satan has his evil angels around us; and though they cannot read men's thoughts, they closely watch their words and actions. Satan takes advantage of the weakness and defects of character that are thus revealed, and presses his temptations where there is least power of resistance. He makes evil suggestions, and inspires worldly thoughts, knowing that he can thus bring the soul into condemnation and bondage. To those who are selfish, worldly, avaricious, proud, fault-finding, or given to detraction,--to all who are cherishing errors and defects of character,--Satan presents the indulgence "

Gospel Workers (1892), page 417, paragraph 3

Chapter Title: Christian Deportment and Influence

Regards!

[robby0024]

Originally Posted By: Robby

I have a feeling you didnt ask with all your heart and "ponder" (as Moroni instructed) it into ur heart when you prayed. Becuase if you would have done so you would have been answered. The negative feelingsyou have about the book of mormon is not an answer from God. The only thing I can tell you is to speak with missionaries and read the book of mormon more before you ask again. and if you dont receive an answer this time, continue doing it..becuase god does Answer prayers.

Ooooh, you are saying that I am not being honest with God??? Isn't that presumptive on your part?

Oooh, I prayed with all my heart. I prayed on my knees..I prayed more than one, and I prayed long and hard...The answer was the same..."Move on. Not Moroni, not Mormonism."

And now you say that God can't say "No" to Mormonism? Isn't that like saying that I am right because I am right? In logic, it is NOT always true.

Why should I speak to the Misssionarys when the Lord has said, "move on"?

Quote:

Yes, we keep the sabbath as well. On the correct day (sunday).

And that is NOT Jesus' Sabbath...See Luke 4:16. Jesus' CUSTOMARY Sabbath was on Saturday. Mormonism doesn't follow Jesus' Sabbath.

Quote:

And you cannot receive answered through what is written. Your telling me that anything you read about god is true!? WOW!!

Now you are deliberately putting words in my mouth. I was refering to the Bible...as it is known as God's Holy Word. And no, an article in the magazine Good Housekeeping Magazine about God isn't authoritive enough to be God's Word.

Quote:

The ways you can receive answeres is by feelings, visions or dreams...but I feel the best is the feelings. When I feel the Holy ghost, I am at so much comfort, I have never felt more peace in my LIFE ,ever, besides the time i received my answer. I feel the presence so strongly, that i know ive been answered.

Been there and done that....And only when following God's Word by faith. But I have also been presumptive as well especially when trusting to feelings....

Quote:

Now, the reason why I can say the book of mormon and the bible are true is because i received an answer from God, SO I DO beleive in what is written. But, you cannot beleive what is written unless you receive an answer from the Holy Ghost.

I agree that the bible is true...I believe that you can recieve an answer from the Holy Ghost. But I also believe that the Holy Ghost will NOT contradict the Holy Bible. But as for the BoM, sorry, it contradicts the bible...as evidenced by the Sabbath.

Quote:

So the way you determine which is the true jesus, is through faith.

Then, you can ask in prayer with all your heart...and the holy ghost will reveal to you what is right.

I can say to you that I did that. I can also say to you that Mormonism was nixed by God.

Quote:

Another good thing to do is to listen to The President of the LDS church, as well as the 12 Apostles (Todays). They receive revelation..theyre just as important as bible time apostles.

Sorry, they contradict the bible. They lose.

Quote:

So, i have high hopes for you...that you will learn to trust what is god answering you, and what is satan speaking to you...

I have found the truth...it is in the bible....God's Word doesn't lie...

Lol. You are so wrong its funny. It shows how little you know..

For one, we do not contradict the bible, however many churches do. And I hope you find truth..

Also, SDA is the ONLY church that celebrates the sabbath on saturday. When you know the bible correctly, and add the days up right.. u will see the sabbath day is actually on sunday.

Saturday is not the Sabbath Day.

Look that one up.

Yes, god will Not say no to mormonism becuase its right. God does not lie.

Obviously you did not pray with all of your heart if you got some "feeling" that the book of mormon is not right. You will have to pray over and over again until you are answered, becuase i can honestly tell you... that I know its right and i was answered. Not only by feeling, but much much more..

and if we are talking about false prophets here....please, lets go no further..ellen white was obviously the false prophet. Who stole writings............

Joseph smith (man of god) Is not a false prophet, and if you beleive so, Im sorry for you. And I will pray that you find the truth.

Oh and you should talk to the missionaries becuase they can teach you and help you to find truth, and then god will confirm it. God has not told you to move on, thats satan.

Satan will lie and keep you from truth..but hoepfully if you are a true follower, you will cotinue to seek truth and GET BAPTISED INTO THE MORMON CHURCH!!! (who holds the authority and saves you correctly)!

Good luck too you.

If anyone contradicts the bible, (well, i will not say In this forum becuase of the site its on..................) anyways, we follow the bible 100percent. Please give me proof of how we dont? We follow the sabbath on the correct day, we beleive in one God, who is the son, father and holy spirit united IN PURPOSE. But yet all different. God the father and Jesus Christ have bodies of bone and blood. We Restored priethood authority (as commanded), we keep our bodies clean, we keep the commandments, we beleive in the "Plan of Savation" which is only done through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We beleive that we will become like god. Which clearly says in the bible that we will know right from wrong and be holy people. We will not make mistakes. And we beleive in three degrees of heavan (which is mentioned in Corinthians 2).

So..please...tell me?

[robby0024]

Originally Posted By: robby0024

Oh, and yes the feeling is the holy ghost....which is of god..so umm yes I do follow god. As well as his commandments and teachings.

I would say that I follow them MORe becuase i do not denie the Book of Mormon..you do..

And can you tell me why I should follow a feeling? The court of Law, which is based upon biblical justice, doesn't recognise a feeling as something as valid in a contract. They want something written so that EVERYONE can see for themselves what was agreed upon.

Originally Posted By: robby0024

And can you tell me how you know the bible is 100percent correct?

If the book of mormon differs from the bible a little, and thats how "YOU KNOW" the book of mormon is not true, then please tell me how the bible is 100percent correct, or, how does it differ??

If there are differences, then the bible is obviously a bit off on translation.

I have faith that 100 million martyers who died specifically because of the Word of God was true. Many, if not most, meticualously studied the Word, and tested it with the Lord, in adverse conditions. These were martyers with a good report and a good reputation...and they encouraged us to trust the Word...they never said to trust a feeling....

So niel tell me....

you bleieve in what is written, right?

So, your telling me..that you dont truly know the bible is right? You just follow it becuase it is written...WOW..Interesting.

So you follow Man, right? Since men have told you the bible is right, thats why you follow it? wow, interesting...

So you follow something without the confirmation of god???

Im sorry.

Well goodluck in following something in which you beleive to be right becuase "man" said so...Without your heart being in the right place...or without asking god into your life...I hope you will follow what Is "written" becuase you know its right becuase god has confirmed it and not becuase man said so.

So in other words..you dont truly know what is right or wrong...is basically what it sounds like..Before disuccing the bible or BoM, iw ould suggest that you pray for god into your life..with all intent..heart in the right place..

and then ask of the bible and book of mormon.

Good luck.

[robby0024]

Quote:

The Spirit is NOT the way to determine which Jesus is correct.

Following a prophet is just old fashioned ....

Quote:

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Quote:

"In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them BY THE TESTIMONIES OF HIS SPIRIT." {4T 147.4}

The following is not mine. I found it somewhere but do not know what credit to be given.

Quote:

The Bible is very clear: "...do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1 ESV). "...when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken..." (Deuteronomy 18:22 ESV) "Behold, I am against the prophets, declares the Lord, who use their tongues and declare, ‘declares the Lord.’ Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, declares the Lord, and who tell them and lead my people astray by their lies and their recklessness, when I did not send them or charge them." (Jeremiah 23:31-32 ESV).

In the end ... it is better to have LOVE than knowledge. So, if you are sincere ... God accepts this as your best effort. Go and live Mormanism with LOVE.

Quote:

Knowledge makes you feel important but love builds up the church.

"Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. " 1 Cor. 8:1

Quote:

" As a people we are certainly in great danger, if we are not constantly guarded, of considering our ideas, because long cherished, to be Bible doctrines and on every point infallible, and measuring everyone by the rule of our interpretation of Bible truth. This is our danger, and this would be the greatest evil that could ever come to us as a people." {1888 830.1}

However .... I will choose God and His revelation through the holy scriptures. I can't let "feelings" get in the way any more than I can let any person or prophet search the scriptures for me. Study to show thyself approved unto God.

Quote:

"We must not trust to others to search the Scriptures for us. Some of our leading brethren have frequently taken their position on the wrong side" GW 303

As for me and my house ... we will choose the Lord.

Well im sorry you denie the holy spirit. By Ignoring feelings, your ignoring the touch of the spirit. I feel bad for you.

[robby0024]

Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43

What is your authority for this statement?

Not questioning your truthfulness' date=' just wondering where it is written.

I do know I personally heard H.M.S.Richards, Jr. once say in a sermon that he always prayed half his private devotional prayer aloud and half silently, since he didn't want Satan to know everything he was praying about.

[so I guess if HMSR Jr. said it it must be verifiable.']

Ellen G White is my authority on that. Unless you do not believe her. I remember reading that in her writings once.

Well, Ellen G White is a false prophet. She was was brain damaged.. hit in the head..

Who was proved to be false.

[robby0024]

But getting back to our Mormon friend's claim about the reliability of feelings and the Holy Spirit . . . I have listened to Mormon missionaries and devotees in the past. I have asked them some of the very questions which have been posed on this thread. Here are the answers I was given:

Q How do you know it is the Spirit of God?

A You will feel a warmth and a swelling in your breast.

Q2 Couldn't satan give you a warm feeling and a swelling in your breast?

A2 You will see an angel who will tell you it is of God.

Q3 How will you know it is an angel of God? Doesn't satan appear as an angel of light?

A3 If it is God's angel, you can reach out and touch him. (said with eyes big and conveying veracity.)

(End of discussion. I was dumbfounded.)

My analysis:

1) the 'warm feeling' and 'swelling in breast' phenomena can be brought about by satan.

2) In my experience, God has not given me a particular 'feeling' or physiological phenomenon. I think it is because such can so easily be counterfeited.

3) Satan CAN appear as an angel of light, and CAN if necessary, seem to be 'touchable.'

Reflection: How could so very many people be snookered?

Bad missionaries.

I can tell you, that you will truly know when you been answered by god. Satan isent god..so satan cannot do what god has the ability to do. God will answer you and you weill know it was of him.

[robby0024]

Quote:

The Spirit is NOT the way to determine which Jesus is correct.

Following a prophet is just old fashioned ....

Quote:

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Quote:

"In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them BY THE TESTIMONIES OF HIS SPIRIT." {4T 147.4}

The following is not mine. I found it somewhere but do not know what credit to be given.

Quote:

The Bible is very clear: "...do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1 ESV). "...when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken..." (Deuteronomy 18:22 ESV) "Behold, I am against the prophets, declares the Lord, who use their tongues and declare, ‘declares the Lord.’ Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, declares the Lord, and who tell them and lead my people astray by their lies and their recklessness, when I did not send them or charge them." (Jeremiah 23:31-32 ESV).

In the end ... it is better to have LOVE than knowledge. So, if you are sincere ... God accepts this as your best effort. Go and live Mormanism with LOVE.

Quote:

Knowledge makes you feel important but love builds up the church.

"Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. " 1 Cor. 8:1

Quote:

" As a people we are certainly in great danger, if we are not constantly guarded, of considering our ideas, because long cherished, to be Bible doctrines and on every point infallible, and measuring everyone by the rule of our interpretation of Bible truth. This is our danger, and this would be the greatest evil that could ever come to us as a people." {1888 830.1}

However .... I will choose God and His revelation through the holy scriptures. I can't let "feelings" get in the way any more than I can let any person or prophet search the scriptures for me. Study to show thyself approved unto God.

Quote:

"We must not trust to others to search the Scriptures for us. Some of our leading brethren have frequently taken their position on the wrong side" GW 303

As for me and my house ... we will choose the Lord.

Oh interesting. But yet you follow Ellen White!? WoW!

[Amelia]

****

This is to everyone. Please stop using the Quote reply. It is making the post's much too long with quotes within quotes within quotes etc. If you are responding to one or two elements please quote just those.

And, if you are going to make reference from the Bible or person, use citations. Saying it can be found somewhere in this book or that chapter is not good enough. Be kind enough to provide book, chapter and verse.

Thanks

Amelia

[Beryl]

Quote:

We beleive that we will become like god.

Sure! That is the lie that the devil told to Eve in the Garden of Eden "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good from evil." Genesis 3:4,5.

And now you are telling me that you believe what Satan said!!

Robbie, the devil has deceived you, too. Please come back to God.

Beryl

[olger]

A-men.

oG

[David Koot]

I can tell you, that you will truly know when you been answered by god. Satan isent god..so satan cannot do what god has the ability to do. God will answer you and you weill know it was of him.

Actually, every mormon I have discussed this with refers to the warm feeling and the swelling sensation. However, getting beyond that . . . You say, "you will truly know . . ." How? If not by a warm feeling, then by what kind of feeling? In other posts, you have affirmed that the 'feeling' is the Holy Spirit. How would you know that? What objective criteria do you apply to determine if the 'feeling' is the Spirit of God? Because satan CAN counterfeit feelings! Do you believe that? We are sinners, and our thoughts, our emotions, our desires, are polluted with sin. We have not reached the point where we have attained 'holy flesh.' Would you agree with that?

Let me answer the question from an evangelical Christian perspective. That is, one would test feelings or experiences by the objective standard of the Bible. If you do not do that, then on what objective basis would you recognize a feeling as the Spirit of God?

Yet, there is another factor which bears on the question. If God has already spoken to us, but we do not accept that answer, instead asking God to 'show' us, then we open ourselves to satan's influence. For example, God has spoken to us in the Bible. He has stated that the seventh day is the Sabbath. If we choose not to accept that statement from God, but ask God to 'show' us if a teaching contrary to that existing statement is 'true' or not, then we give satan an opportunity to 'show' us a thing or two. And he will!

Dave