robby0024 Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 PEOPLE The Sabbath is NOT SATURDAY!! The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? Quote "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement."- John 7:24
David Koot Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 PEOPLEThe Sabbath is NOT SATURDAY!! The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? That is incorrect. The identity of Saturday as the Sabbath is very thoroughly authenticated. In the ancient calendars, dating back to 1200 B.C., the Sabbath day corresponds to our Saturday. And going back even farther, there is unmistakable Biblical and scientific evidence for the day of the week. Our Saturday is the Sabbath of the Bible. How did Sunday become the day of worship for Christendom? The Catholic church did it. Here is a direct quote: "Sunday is our mark of authority. The Church is above the Bible, and this transferance of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." (Catholic Record, 1924) Were you aware of that, Robby? It can very, very easily be proved. Dave Quote
David Koot Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Only god can read minds. If you say satan can, then you are saying satan is equal to god. No, we ALL are saying that only God can read minds. Satan cannot. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 So..please...tell me? "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." John 7:17 KJV A promise to all! Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted February 10, 2008 Moderators Posted February 10, 2008 PEOPLEThe Sabbath is NOT SATURDAY!! The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? What day was Christ raised? The Bible says he was raised the first day of the week, right? It is called Easter Sunday. When was he crucified? On Good Friday, right? What day comes between Friday and Sunday? Isn't it the Sabbath? See what the Bible says about Jesus' followers after His death, in Luke 23: 56: "they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment." The Christians and Jews were both keeping the Sabbath and worshipping together during the times of apostles. See Acts 13: 42-44. The church historians of the 5th century, Sozoman and Socrates, both said that most Christians were still keeping the seventh-day Sabbath, except for those in Alexandria and Rome. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 10, 2008 Moderators Posted February 10, 2008 Robby, Do you know how Mormons say the Book of Mormon came to be translated? They say that Joseph Smith took the plates written in "reformed Egyptian" into a room, and that while behind a curtain, he dictated to men sitting outside who wrote down Smith's words. The Book of Mormon contains many chapters of the books of Isaiah and some of the other prophets. They are given word-for-word as the King James Version of 1611 translated them from relatively late Hebrew manuscripts. The translators of the KJV did not understand as much about Hebrew as we know today. So they made some mistakes. Joseph Smith is supposed to have translated from much more ancient manuscripts than those used by the King James translators, yet Joseph Smith's "translation" is precisely the same as the 1611 edition, even in its mistakes. How does one explain that? Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 And what is the definition of a god anyway. "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." 1 John 4:8 KJV "Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. " 1 John 4:11-13 NASB "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" 1 John 4:20 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Neil D Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 But, im mormon...how could satan possibly deceived me? I have the correct teachings and the correct faith. I love god and god knows it. God has strengthened me.....therefore, Satan will not deceive me. Although, I would recommend you asking god to strengthen you!! Hmmmmmm.....tell me...what is the difference between this retoric and that of a delusional muslim terrorist when asked about possibly being wrong...? And, BTW, everyone loves God...Even terrorists. At least, SDAs do not say things like "How could Satan possibly decieve me?" ... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
Neil D Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 PEOPLEThe Sabbath is NOT SATURDAY!! The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? But Christ is our example...His custom was to worship on Sabbath. The nation of the Jews, whose legalistic principles were to keep Sabbath, HAVE NOT CHANGED IN SINCE THE TIMES OF CHRIST. And thier Sabbath is Saturday...according to the bible, Saturday is the 7th day, aka Sabbath. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
CyberGuy Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 PEOPLEThe Sabbath is NOT SATURDAY!! The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? Obviously you do not know your History. The Catholic church freely admits they changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Since all christain churches came from the Catholic church if you go back into their history far enough, they all kept Sunday as well. The bible is very clear on that point. The Catholic church claims the papacy has that authority given them by God. That is where we disagree with them on that. Exodus 20 verse 8 clearly states that the Seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord your God. Jesus kept the same Sabbath as the Jews did. Even in Spanish the word Saturday is Sabbado or Sabbath. It is just that English adapted the Pagen names for the days of the week. http://www.12x30.net/origin.html But that is just English. Other languages like Spanish keep to the orignial meaning. Sabbado or sabbath. Read this on the orgin of the sabbath. http://www.clarion-call.org/yeshua/feasts/shabbat1.htm Now read this by Ted Noel http://www.bibleonly.org/docs/sab/bacon/disc2.html Ted Noels conclusion Conclusion: Objections to sabbatarianism which rest on an origin of the Sabbath later than Creation week fail when examined against God's word. Based on the testimony of scripture brought forward here, we may unequivocally state that the Sabbath originated in Eden. It was the crowning act of Creation. All else of Creation was "very good," but the Sabbath surpassed all, and was sanctified. It was placed in holy service immediately, and man and God walked together as friends. It was a holy day of rest in a perfect world. Its continuing presence in our sinful world stands as a gift from God for fellowship with him. Ted Noel Quote Riverside CA
Woody Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 The Sabbath is on Sunday. Anciet calendars received that sunday is the sabbath day. Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? Some more thoughts on the Sabbath ... The Miracle of the Manna is one of my favorite examples of the importance of the Sabbath. Of course some will say that is just cultural. Then we have the example of Jesus resting on the Seventh day of creation thus creating that day for us. Can I ask you Robby ... do you rest on YOUR Sabbath or is it just too legalistic to follow Christ's example? Why do you think Jesus 'rested' when He didn't need the rest? I find it interesting that the Sabbath was created BEFORE sin arrived. So, the argument that the cross some how changed the Sabbath does not hold water to me. Lastly ... we have the example of Cain and Abel. God did not accept the offering of Cain. Do you think God will accept YOUR offering of Sunday observance? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
LifeHiscost Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I hope LHC that you are not implying that those who do not keep the Sabbath on Saturday are not "truly converted". I know of many Sunday keepers who are truly converted to Christ but simply do not understand the Sabbath message. Your hope is correct, Redwood. Because of the importance of all God's counsels in His rewards to man, which subsequently glorifies God, no request by God will ever depend upon man's will to determine validity, but contrary to implication which is often very uncertain and nebulous, no man will be excluded from God's eternal rewards until a person knows beyond shadow of doubt His will for their life, and has instead chosen not to accept victory in Jesus. "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." Hebrews 10:35 KJV "...so that no man may boast before God. ... by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption" 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 NASB Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Why do you think everyone has church on sundays?? It is my understanding that most people have sex before getting married. That doesn't make it right. "....perhaps the LORD will work for us, for the LORD is not restrained to save by many or by few." 1 Samuel 14:6 NASB There is no doubt many more people attend worship services on Sunday, the first day of the week. And there is nothing wrong with worshipping on that day. However the majority have often been wrong in their assumptions, one being that Sunday is a more preferable day to recognize as the Sabbath. And something seems to have been forgotten by many. "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God" Exodus 20:10 KJV "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Exodus 20:8 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted February 11, 2008 Moderators Posted February 11, 2008 You're doubtless aware that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that the brass plates on which The Book of Mormon was written were taken to heaven after Joseph Smith finished translating the "Reformed Egyptian." So the Momons no longer have access to those plates in order to verify what was written on them. Mormons must therefore rely on Joseph Smith's transcription. 2 Nephi 30: 6, in the original edition reads, "... and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people." That is the way it read until more recent editions were printed, and these now read, "... they shall be a pure and delightsome people." Joseph Smith translated it correctly with the word "white," which is what the Reformed Egyptian evidently said, but men later changed it without consulting the plates. Why the change from "white" to "pure"? Do you think the change had anything to do with the teaching in the Book of Mormon that "the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgressions and their rebellion against their brethren..." (Alma 3:6)? Or with these verses: "... there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among the people.... The seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them [the other descendants of Adam]" (Moses 7: 8, 22)? Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 John317 ... This is just shocking. I don't think I could belong to a church like that. However ... our church is not "pure" on the "black" issue either. So, let's not go there. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Amelia Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Red, there may be issues within the church but it's not written in any authoratative book. Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Woody Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I'll just pass on this because I really don't care much to get into it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Neil D Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I'll just pass on this because I really don't care much to get into it. Awwwww, Red, what's a matter? You 'fraid??? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
LifeHiscost Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 However ... our church is not "pure" on the "black" issue either. So, let's not go there. Which is one of the greatest reasons for going to the Word, asking for the Spirit to teach us from the Word, as opposed to taking any man at face value. There are almost as many human facades, if not as many, to contend with in the human race as there are humans. "For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe." Deuteronomy 10:17 NASB "For God shows no partiality [ undue favor or unfairness; with Him one man is not different from another" Romans 2:11 AMP "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Red, there may be issues within the church but it's not written in any authoratative book. Very good point, Amelia, and a good reason to look forward to better days when all authority is turned over to God, the Father. "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, " All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Matthew 28:18 NASB "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Corinthians 15:24 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Originally Posted By: Redwood I'll just pass on this because I really don't care much to get into it. Awwwww, Red, what's a matter? You 'fraid??? teehe Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Quote: Very good point, Amelia, and a good reason to look forward to better days when all authority is turned over to God, the Father. Won't that be a glorious day. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
LifeHiscost Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Quote: Very good point, Amelia, and a good reason to look forward to better days when all authority is turned over to God, the Father. Won't that be a glorious day. Amen!! h5 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted February 13, 2008 Moderators Posted February 13, 2008 Here is the Mormon explanation of how Joseph Smith "translated" the original plates containing the Book of Mormon. Am wondering if you believe this. This was the reply I got when I asked a question of the official Mormon website: "You're right about Joseph Smith not being able to read the Reformed Egyptian characters on the plates. At the time he received the plates, he was a 21-year-old farmer with a 5th grade level education. Or, as Jeff Foxworthy says, 'He was not smarter than a 5th grader'. The translation process wasn't done in a typical process. He couldn't just read the plates and convert the text into English. It would literally take an act of God for Joseph to be able to do it. God had Moroni, the last Nephite prophet and record keeper, include a Urim and Thummim with the hidden plates so Joseph could use them to translate. The Urim and Thummim, also known as divine interpreters, was used by prophets and priests in the Old Testament and in the Book of Mormon (Ex. 28: 30, Lev. 8: 8, Deut. 33: 8, Ezra 2: 63, Neh. 7: 65, 1 Sam. 28: 6, Mosiah 8: 13). Joseph's mother, Lucy, described the Urim and Thummim as 'consisting of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows, which were connected with each other in much the same way as old fashioned spectacles'. When Joseph looked through them, by the power of God it would allow Joseph to be able to read the writings[i.e., the 'Reformed Egyptian']. Joseph wasn't able to write so he used several different people to act as a scribe for him. When Joseph was in tune with the Holy Spirit he would look through the Urim and Thummim and would concentrate until the words and sentences would appear. When the Holy Ghost confirmed the interpretation was correct, he would read the words, or would spell the word out if he couldn't read it, and the scribe would write them down. The plates were usually sitting covered on the table next to him and his scribe. Since there was nothing between them the scribe would have known if Joseph was reading from some other book..." The same reply told me that Joseph Smith translated the "Reformed Egyptian" on the plates by sticking his face in a hat along with the two smooth diamonds. Interestingly the Mormon explanation of what happened to the plates is that an angel took them to heaven. I'd like appeal to you to contrast the above explanation with how God communicated the Old and New Testaments to us. Regards, "John 3: 17" Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 13, 2008 Moderators Posted February 13, 2008 Excellent response, IMO, Redwood. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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