Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[LifeHiscost]

My statement stands. I do not condemn Gerry as a person. I condemn his eye for an eye mentality. Jesus Himself condemned such thoughts.

"The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

Luke 12:46-48 KJV

And that's New Covenant.

Blessings!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Do you mean "this" one??

Quote:

Great Controversy - 673

Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat' date=' the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething 673

lake of fire. It is the time of the judgement and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished “according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit.

His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}

Quote:

EW 294

The Second Death

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together.

I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but

295

also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!"

{EW 294.2}

Said the angel, "Satan is the root, his children are the branches. They are now consumed root and branch. They have died an everlasting death. They are never to have a resurrection, and God will have a clean universe." I then looked and saw the fire which had consumed the wicked, burning up the rubbish and purifying the earth. Again I looked and saw the earth purified. There was not a single sign of the curse. The broken, uneven surface of the earth now looked like a level, extensive plain.

is That the God Gerry speaks of?

in Christ,

Bob [/quote']Do not think that, because we have a glimmer of the light of God, that we have it all.--Ms. 3, 1889, pp. 1-3. (Morning Talk at Ottawa, Kansas, May 14, 1889.)

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

Have you considered that this applies to you as well Robert?

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: WilloMar

Here’s one, “Thou shalt not kill

(Ex. 20:13).” I think that’s very “Clear!”

I use to be concerned about that one. So concerned that when I witnessed the death of an animal (I grew up on a farm) it tore at my heart. It was only later that I learned the Law was given to thinking human beings. Then I was still troubled about how men continued to kill each other. When angry I faced the reality that under the right circumstances, killing another person was not above me.

However I had another question. When an innocent defenseless person was in danger of being killed by another intent on grave bodily harm, how just was it for the innocent to be tried for murder while defending him/herself?

That was when I learned that more contemporary translations were more true to the spirit of the law. Otherwise our Father could be accused of breaking His own principles.

" See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."Deuteronomy 32:39 KJV

"“You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13 NKJV

Kill can mean to eliminate life when no other solution can be seen to absolve a problem, with no malicious intent to deprive one of legal rights.

Murder means to take life with malicious intent, to deprive another of whatever legal right they have to maintain life rightfully given them.

Regards!

Amen :-)

[Lutz13]

I still think we are running into the problem of limiting God to our ways.

[Lutz13]

Some of you keep mentioning that the scriptures are plain and are to be taken as such. When I get to a verse such as:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Now as Seventh-Day Adventist we do not believe in an eternal hell. Yet text such as above if taken as is, teaches of eternal punishment. I know the true meaning of the above. But I read the above with the same means of other scripture, so am I guilty of twisting scripture?

[LifeHiscost]

Some of you keep mentioning that the scriptures are plain and are to be taken as such. When I get to a verse such as:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Now as Seventh-Day Adventist we do not believe in an eternal hell. Yet text such as above if taken as is, teaches of eternal punishment. I know the true meaning of the above. But I read the above with the same means of other scripture, so am I guilty of twisting scripture?

One of the ways that particular Scripture was explained to me was that it doesn't say "eternal punishing". The punishment is without end. And since the void of oblivion is without pain, suffering, or regrets, I can not think of a better, more loving way to deal with the wicked who would find obedience to a loving God, so difficult to bear. And the wicked have received their just reward.

"...so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Romans 5:20 NASB

OTOH the reward for the righteous is also without end. The difference is that the reward they are conscious of is to be able to enjoy the fruit of their labor, which comes along with eternal life.

"They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat [the fruit]. For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, and My chosen and elect shall long make use of and enjoy the work of their hands." Isaiah 65:22 AMP

Regards!

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Some of you keep mentioning that the scriptures are plain and are to be taken as such. When I get to a verse such as:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Now as Seventh-Day Adventist we do not believe in an eternal hell. Yet text such as above if taken as is, teaches of eternal punishment. I know the true meaning of the above. But I read the above with the same means of other scripture, so am I guilty of twisting scripture?

One of the ways that particular Scripture was explained to me was that it doesn't say "eternal punishing". The punishment is without end. And since the void of oblivion is without pain, suffering, or regrets, I can not think of a better, more loving way to deal with the wicked who would find obedience to a loving God, so difficult to bear. And the wicked have received their just reward.

"...so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Romans 5:20 NASB

OTOH the reward for the righteous is also without end. The difference is that the reward they are conscious of is to be able to enjoy the fruit of their labor, which comes along with eternal life.

"They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat [the fruit]. For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, and My chosen and elect shall long make use of and enjoy the work of their hands." Isaiah 65:22 AMP

Regards!

yes well, all that doesn't matter, because God is going to make it easy for everyone to want to obey Him and save all of creation. He wants it, and He gets what He wants.

[Gerr]

Some of you keep mentioning that the scriptures are plain and are to be taken as such. When I get to a verse such as:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Now as Seventh-Day Adventist we do not believe in an eternal hell. Yet text such as above if taken as is, teaches of eternal punishment. I know the true meaning of the above. But I read the above with the same means of other scripture, so am I guilty of twisting scripture?

Nothing hard about the text. The wages of sin is death. Death as the punishment is eternal.

[Gerr]

I still think we are running into the problem of limiting God to our ways.

Or possibly limiting God to your way of thinking?

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Some of you keep mentioning that the scriptures are plain and are to be taken as such. When I get to a verse such as:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Now as Seventh-Day Adventist we do not believe in an eternal hell. Yet text such as above if taken as is, teaches of eternal punishment. I know the true meaning of the above. But I read the above with the same means of other scripture, so am I guilty of twisting scripture?

Nothing hard about the text. The wages of sin is death. Death as the punishment is eternal.

Yes, we only know that because other text do not agree or they add to it. Much like "Gods wrath".

[Lutz13]

Or possibly limiting God to your way of thinking?

So, by saying that God has other ways that are not the same as this world. I am limiting Him? By saying we need to start thinking higher than the heavens and outside of this world. I am putting limits on Him...Making a lot of sense here Gerry....

[Robert]

"And these will go away into everlasting [destruction], but the righteous into eternal life."(Matthew 25:46)

Nothing hard about the text. The wages of sin is death. Death as the punishment is eternal.

Right, God retreats....God releases...He gives them up to the surrounding destruction....Like He did with Christ in Gethsemane.

Sin kills...Not God. If God kills, then God = sin....

Nothing hard about that when you think outside the box....

[Robert]

So, by saying that God has other ways that are not the same as this world. I am limiting Him?

He wants a god who acts like Gerry....A god who has human emotions....The Jews wanted the same....They were looking for a king to rule as other kings....

[LifeHiscost]

The gospel according to man.

Sin kills...Not God. If God kills, then God = sin....

The gospel according to the Word.

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."Deuteronomy 32:39 KJV

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NIV

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."Ezekiel 18:4 KJV

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."Romans 6:6 KJV

Regards!

[Robert]

The gospel according to man.

Originally Posted By: Robert

Sin kills...Not God. If God kills, then God = sin....

The gospel according to the Word.

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."Deuteronomy 32:39 KJV

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NIV

Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". He also said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father." Show me, in the life of Christ, were He brought down destruction on anyone.

I see where the Son of God was nailed to a tree. They put God on a tree...they murdered the Son of Man. Do you hear me....They attacked God....What did Jesus do? He said goodbye to life, not for 3 days, but forever so they could take His place. In your view of god, he would have blinked them out of existence for in human terms he was just in doing so....

[LifeHiscost]

yes well, all that doesn't matter, because God is going to make it easy for everyone to want to obey Him and save all of creation. [font:impact] He wants it, and He gets what He wants.

Could you supply the Scripture that reveals the underlined above.

And since your words are seeming to suggest no human is going to be lost, I'm wondering what this below might mean to you.

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:11,12 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Show me, in the life of Christ, where He brought down destruction on anyone.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:16,17 KJV

The above is a promise for anyone. All that is needed is for a person to accept the gift. Some won't! Whether our Father or Jesus take life or allow the natural consequences of perverted choices accomplish what is necessary, we can only be assured of our own safety for now and in the future as we place our lives in His hands.

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"Colossians 1:27 KJV

Omnipotence stands aside for only one thing. Unbelief in free choice.

If you allowed your three year old to walk out into freeway traffic and he was hit by an eighteenwheeler, while you stood by and watched, who do you think would be held responsible?

I will have to admit, the example reveals man, and that's why we need to see a different benchmark, Whom our Father so graciously gave in the Person of His Son, Who is not ashamed to call us brethren.

"For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,"Hebrews 2:11 NKJV

Regards!

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

yes well, all that doesn't matter, because God is going to make it easy for everyone to want to obey Him and save all of creation. [font:impact] He wants it, and He gets what He wants.

Could you supply the Scripture that reveals the underlined above.

And since your words are seeming to suggest no human is going to be lost, I'm wondering what this below might mean to you.

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:11,12 KJV

Regards!

If God cast us into outer darkness, will not that make us sad to be away from Him? Do we not have faith that we will be saved? And if are saved, why not everyone?

[Lutz13]

Quote:

If God cast us into outer darkness, will not that make us sad to be away from Him? Do we not have faith that we will be saved? And if are saved, why not everyone?

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

[oldsailor29]

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

Some beliefs have to be discarded.   We must stop being so concerned with ourselves and our own character development.   And further, we must stop evaluating the characters of others.   God is going to save sinners.   That is one of Satan's main complaints.   Satan says that justice demands the extinction of all humanity.   But God says, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice."  But Satan is right.   Justice demands that if God destroys one sinner, He must destroy all.   But what actually is happening is that God through His merciful plan of salvation is going to save all.   So, we won't be standing in the Holy city wondering why we are not on the outside looking in.   And we won't have to witness the horrible deaths of all the other sinners of the world.   And we will be so happy to be among the saved that we will also be happy for all the other sinners who are saved.   I may get a stern personal rebuke from the Lord for saying it, but this is the way I see that it has to be.

[Gail]

Quote:

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

Tis true when we look at the requirements of the Law and ourselves that it is very discouraging, indeed. But I would like to encourage you, Lutz, to spend your time with Jesus.

When I spend time in His Word, I feel at peace and close to Him. Cling to those Scripture promises that provide hope, and if need be, bring them up to God in prayer, petitioning Him with a "You said..."

If in faith you can believe those promises, you will find faith and rest for your soul. You will rest knowing that Jesus' sacrifice, His merits and shed blood, covers you.

When the Lord changes your heart, it will not be a struggle to walk with Him. You will WANT to walk with the One who is your best Friend.

I regret that so many of these threads focus so much on people's selves, when God has graciously given us the remedy.

Let us praise Him for His mighty acts, as the Scripture says!

[Twilight]

Quote:

If God cast us into outer darkness, will not that make us sad to be away from Him? Do we not have faith that we will be saved? And if are saved, why not everyone?

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

You are wrestling in the wrong place my friend :-)

That is why you are struggling and failing.

Victory over sin is a simple process, not easy, but simple when we understand it.

I did try to post on this before but the thread was hijacked.

Mark

[Woody]

Quote:

If God cast us into outer darkness, will not that make us sad to be away from Him? Do we not have faith that we will be saved? And if are saved, why not everyone?

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

Thanks for your honest testimony Lutz.

You will not gain total victory over all sin. You will need Jesus to save you. But the bible and SOP is full of the assurance of salvation. Through Jesus you can KNOW for certain that you are saved. I hope you have or will find that assurance in Him.

Keep the Faith . Once you have the assurance in Him ... you will notice some victories and they will be easier because you will be doing them in thanks to Him who gives you life.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Quote:

If God cast us into outer darkness, will not that make us sad to be away from Him? Do we not have faith that we will be saved? And if are saved, why not everyone?

I still struggle with this. I was taught that I should not be assured of my salvation. I bang my head against my desk at times(not literally) because I can't seem to keep the law and fall face first into the ground any time I try. Yet I know that no matter how hard I try, I will never be able to do such. It is only done through Christ, yet I keep trying and I do not know how to stop! This battle with self is getting irritating.

Thanks for your honest testimony Lutz.

You will not gain total victory over all sin. You will need Jesus to save you. But the bible and SOP is full of the assurance of salvation. Through Jesus you can KNOW for certain that you are saved. I hope you have or will find that assurance in Him.

Keep the Faith . Once you have the assurance in Him ... you will notice some victories and they will be easier because you will be doing them in thanks to Him who gives you life.

You will not gain total victory over all sin

Do you have a text to support that assertion?

Mark :-)

[Robert]

Victory over sin is a simple process, not easy, but simple when we understand it.

Tell us, how are you without sin since it is an easy thing to be selfless (not to think of self)?