Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 In the case of Pharaoh, the same Spirit that melts the responsive sinner's heart, hardens the heart of the sinner who resists. That answer is just stupid! You've got the character of God all wrong!!! If God is trying to get me to see something, but I refuse, then He makes my unbelief worse? Stupid...madness I tell you.... Then in the judgment I can blame God for my unbelief....He made it worse.... Crazy.... Quote
Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert In the passive sense, but ultimately sin kills.... [/quote'] And sin causes spontaneous combustion? The effects of sin...yes. Use the boy with his finger in the dike analogy. Think...think.... Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 "the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country." Remember that the whole idea of God sending Moses and Aaron is so that Pharaoh would let Israel go. So why would God try to prevent it? Two possible answers: 1] Because, from the human point of view, God wanted a fight with evil...the Pharaoh. If God forced Pharaoh to not let Israel go then He could bring all those plagues down on Egypt. 2] Because God assumes of blame of sin until the day of atonement because He no other choice but to allow Lucifer to develop his bent-to-self type of love. You see Pharaoh would never have harden his heart against God if he didn't have a sinful nature. If there had been no fall...no devil...no nature, he wouldn't have sinned. But since God allowed sin to enter this world, He assumes the blame for sin until He places the actual blame upon Satan. Remember the two goats? You see the cross took care of the guilt and punishment of sin, but not the blame....That is future. Quote
True-believer Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert And' date=' John, this isn't my flesh: Gerry, you are an enemy of the gospel. I will continue to oppose your legalistic, hell & damnation views. Rob [/quote'] "My friend" was not addressed to you. You made it clear some time back I'm no friend of yours!!! And you can be sure I will not be cozying up your so-called good news. I have no doubt where it was brewed from. Robert and Gerry please kiss and make up---you will be seeing each other in heaven. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Do you believe judges are murderers for sending serial murderers or criminals who commit the most heinous crimes to the electric chair? Yes Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Do you believe judges are murderers for sending serial murderers or criminals who commit the most heinous crimes to the electric chair? Yes Luckily it is illigal in Australia for our judges to put death on anyone--especially criminals---they still have a chance to repent and gives their lives to Jesus, so when they do die (naturally)--they will have the blessed assurance of heaven. Amen. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 31, 2009 Moderators Posted May 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo In the case of Pharaoh, the same Spirit that melts the responsive sinner's heart, hardens the heart of the sinner who resists. That answer is just stupid! You've got the character of God all wrong!!! If God is trying to get me to see something, but I refuse, then He makes my unbelief worse? Stupid...madness I tell you.... Then in the judgment I can blame God for my unbelief....He made it worse.... Crazy.... If you use your superor intellect and think outside YOUR box, you will find that this is really not difficult to grasp. Quite elementary in fact. " The True Witness says, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock." Rev. 3:20. Every warning, reproof, and entreaty in the word of God or [bEGIN P.490] through His messengers is a knock at the door of the heart. It is the voice of Jesus asking for entrance. With every knock unheeded, the disposition to open becomes weaker. The impressions of the Holy Spirit if disregarded today, will not be as strong tomorrow. The heart becomes less impressible, and lapses into a perilous unconsciousness of the shortness of life, and of the great eternity beyond. Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have been in error, but from the fact that we have neglected heaven-sent opportunities for learning what is truth. "{DA 489.5} White, E. G. (1898; 2002). The Desire of Ages; Conflict of the Ages Series, Volume 3; Desire of Ages (489). Pacific Press Publishing Association. See the interplay between the sinner and the Spirit. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 1, 2009 Moderators Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Do you believe judges are murderers for sending serial murderers or criminals who commit the most heinous crimes to the electric chair? Yes You guys tolerate murderers down under? Why don't you get rid of them? And if there are to be no judges to enforce the law, why don't you get rid of your laws? And if there are to be no laws, why have a government? Quote
Lutz13 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Posted June 1, 2009 You guys tolerate murderers down under? Why don't you get rid of them? And if there are to be no judges to enforce the law, why don't you get rid of your laws? And if there are to be no laws, why have a government? Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 1, 2009 Moderators Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo You guys tolerate murderers down under? Why don't you get rid of them? And if there are to be no judges to enforce the law, why don't you get rid of your laws? And if there are to be no laws, why have a government? Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. It is one thing for a person wronged to forgive a wrongdoer. It is anarchy for governments to not do anything about wrongs done to others. A world ruled by law will last forever, friend. There is not a thing in God's universe that is not ruled by law and whose ver preservation is not dependent upon obedience to that law. A world ruled without law or justice will perish under its own chaotic weight. Just look at the world around you and see which nations are in process of disintegration. Quote
Robert Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert That answer is just stupid! You've got the character of God all wrong!!! If God is trying to get me to see something, but I refuse, then He makes my unbelief worse? Stupid...madness I tell you.... Then in the judgment I can blame God for my unbelief....He made it worse.... Crazy.... [/quote'][color:blue] {DA 489.5}White, E. G. (1898; 2002). The Desire of Ages; Conflict of the Ages Series, Volume 3; Desire of Ages (489). Pacific Press Publishing Association. Earth to Gerry.....That had nothing to do with the above....That's called babbling. Quote
Lutz13 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Posted June 1, 2009 Just look at the world around you and see which nations are in process of disintegration. The US of A is one of them. Thanks to its self loving, materialistic people(I will admit, I am among those people). Quote
BobRyan Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Lutz13 Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. [/quote'] It is one thing for a person wronged to forgive a wrongdoer. It is anarchy for governments to not do anything about wrongs done to others. A world ruled by law will last forever, friend. There is not a thing in God's universe that is not ruled by law and whose ver preservation is not dependent upon obedience to that law. A world ruled without law or justice will perish under its own chaotic weight. Just look at the world around you and see which nations are in process of disintegration. Good points all! In Romans 3 Paul says that God IS JUST and the JUSTIFIER of those who diligently seek HIM. But many today like to "imagine" that He is "just the Justifier -- and no longer JUST". Makes for good Calvinism - but horrible Arminianism. In Romans 3:31 Paul says "Do we then ABOLISH the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" -- But some like to imagine that Rom 3:31 just does not exist. In 1Cor 7:19 Paul says "But what MATTERs is keeping the commandments of God" But some like to imagine that Paul says "But what absolutely does NOT matter for us Christians is keeping the Commandments of God". My point is that the "imaginary Bible" is not as reliable as the real one. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators Gerr Posted June 1, 2009 Moderators Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo You guys tolerate murderers down under? Why don't you get rid of them? And if there are to be no judges to enforce the law, why don't you get rid of your laws? And if there are to be no laws, why have a government? Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. Lutz, that's Robert's method! You've got to present better thought out arguments than that. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 1, 2009 Moderators Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Just look at the world around you and see which nations are in process of disintegration. The US of A is one of them. Thanks to its self loving, materialistic people(I will admit, I am among those people). Yes, sadly, our beloved country is one of them. That's because we are violating every one of God's laws! We are repeating the consequences!!! Quote
Twilight Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo You guys tolerate murderers down under? Why don't you get rid of them? And if there are to be no judges to enforce the law, why don't you get rid of your laws? And if there are to be no laws, why have a government? Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. Lutz, that is so condemning. Do you realise the biggest argument against this doctrine you and Robert have proposed on this board for me, is the way it has been presented by both of you. Their is an air of "spiritual superiority" about yours and Roberts posts, especially when the other person does not agree. Maybe you and Robert should deal with that first, before you preach this message? What do you think? Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Lutz13 Gerry, you have made it clear you are "an eye for an eye" type of guy. Enjoy your world while it last. [/quote'] It is one thing for a person wronged to forgive a wrongdoer. It is anarchy for governments to not do anything about wrongs done to others. A world ruled by law will last forever, friend. There is not a thing in God's universe that is not ruled by law and whose ver preservation is not dependent upon obedience to that law. A world ruled without law or justice will perish under its own chaotic weight. Just look at the world around you and see which nations are in process of disintegration. In this system that is being offered to us here Gerry, you would also not be able to discipline your children. Maybe you just let them misbehave, break up your furniture, smash your computer, steal your car and plow into a crowd of children, killing them. How do you deal with that? With this version of justice you would just tell them how bad they have been and pacifly sit by whilst they destroy everyone elses lives. Then you just let them bare their own "consequences"... What parent would do that? Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 1, 2009 Moderators Posted June 1, 2009 You might consider changing that signature "Twilight" to "Sunrise" since you are bringing more light into the discussion. Quote
True-believer Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I am very glad we over here do not have capital punishment, sentenced to death!!! That would be horrible!!! If that did exist over here, then ALL Christians would get sentenced to death because of their faith in Jesus Christ, we would loose our freedom of speech rights!!! Please Gerry and Twilight and the others that have posted similer posts than these above, open up your hearts to the truth, we need to keep our Religious Freedom, our Freedom of choice/rights as a believer in Jesus Christ... Please look where it leads............... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Lutz13 Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Quote: Lutz, that is so condemning. Do you realise the biggest argument against this doctrine you and Robert have proposed on this board for me, is the way it has been presented by both of you. Their is an air of "spiritual superiority" about yours and Roberts posts, especially when the other person does not agree. Maybe you and Robert should deal with that first, before you preach this message? What do you think? Mark :-) My statement stands. I do not condemn Gerry as a person. I condemn his eye for an eye mentality. Jesus Himself condemned such thoughts. "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."(Matthew 5:38-39) If you want to know God, you had best starting thinking higher than the heavens, cause "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts"(Isaiah 55:9) While the world teaches an eye for an eye. Our Creator says no! While the world fights, Jesus says "If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."(John 18:36) Jesus is thinking higher than the earth, because He had the kingdom of heaven inside of Him. His servants wanted to use the sword, and He rebuked him. "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels."(Matthew 26:52-53) Yes, if Jesus were a product of this world, if this world grabbed on to Him. He would have called down twelve legions of angels to take out those trying to take Him. He didn't though, because He doesn't bring Himself down to the worlds level of corruption. And as much as you wish He was like you, He won't be. "Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man."(Romans 1:22-23) As much as you try to bring God down to your level, a corrupt man. He rebukes you. "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord."(Isaiah 55:8) The world tells us the one who sits at the table is the greatest. Yet in the Kingdom of Heaven, the servant is greater. "For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves."(Luke 22:27) The world says to have self confidence. Jesus says "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"(Matthew 5:3) So, if you can't put your thoughts higher than the heavens. Then I sincerely hope you find joy in this life. You will get to choose heaven or death. The choice is up to you, and I seriously hope we all choose the Kingdom of Heaven. Quote
Lutz13 Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Quote: In this system that is being offered to us here Gerry, you would also not be able to discipline your children. Maybe you just let them misbehave, break up your furniture, smash your computer, steal your car and plow into a crowd of children, killing them. How do you deal with that? With this version of justice you would just tell them how bad they have been and pacifly sit by whilst they destroy everyone elses lives. Then you just let them bare their own "consequences"... What parent would do that? There are wonderful parents out there that do a fantastic job raising their kids. Without laying a finger on them. Quote
Lutz13 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Quote: In this system that is being offered to us here Gerry, you would also not be able to discipline your children. Maybe you just let them misbehave, break up your furniture, smash your computer, steal your car and plow into a crowd of children, killing them. How do you deal with that? With this version of justice you would just tell them how bad they have been and pacifly sit by whilst they destroy everyone elses lives. Then you just let them bare their own "consequences"... What parent would do that? Not to mention Satan has already stomped around our world "is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners?"(Isaiah 14:16-17) Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Posted June 3, 2009 Quote: So, if you can't put your thoughts higher than the heavens. Then I sincerely hope you find joy in this life. You will get to choose heaven or death. The choice is up to you, and I seriously hope we all choose the Kingdom of Heaven. "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," Rev 20:10 ESV. You can keep playing your games, Lutz, but my Bible is too plain for me to misunderstand. If you want to put the Holy Spirit who inspired ALL of Scripture in opposition to Himself, that's your business. In order to fit Scripture according to your preconceived notion that God does not destroy anything, you have to ignore or explain away Scriptures that are too plain to be misunterstood. IMHO, to do so is professing to be wise while becoming a fool, as your quote indicates. The thoughts I am presenting to you are not my thoughts. I don't present anything without Scripture to back me up. Do I understand you correctly that if I reject your position that I am choosing death? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Posted June 3, 2009 Quote: Not to mention Satan has already stomped around our world "is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners?"(Isaiah 14:16-17) Was it Satan who brought in the Flood? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Posted June 3, 2009 Quote: There are wonderful parents out there that do a fantastic job raising their kids. Without laying a finger on them. Only eternity will show how many children will be lost because their parents dared not to discipline their children! "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." Prov 13:24 ESV. Quote
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