Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator?

[skyblue888]

Here is another one:

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stiffles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest. By rejecting the first warning from God, Pharaoh of old sowed the seeds of obstinacy, and he reaped obstinacy. God did not compel him to disbelieve." C.O.L.85.

And yet we read that "God hardened Pharaoh's heart."

sky

[pnattmbtc]

sky, how is it that you are understanding the statement that the glory of God will destroy Satan and his followers?

[skyblue888]

sky, how is it that you are understanding the statement that the glory of God will destroy Satan and his followers?

Just as Mrs. White says that the Jews in A.D.70 were destroyed by the brightness of His glory or by the brighteness of His coming. Are you familiar with that statement?

sky

[pnattmbtc]

The brightness of His coming statement is in reference to God's character.

Quote:

But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.

In the time of John the Baptist, Christ was about to appear as the revealer of the character of God. His very presence would make manifest to men their sin. Only as they were willing to be purged from sin could they enter into fellowship with Him. Only the pure in heart could abide in His presence. (DA 108)

The light of the glory of God is the revelation of His character. Light = revelation. Glory = character. The next sentence makes clear this is the right interpretation, as it speaks of Christ as "the revealer of the character of God."

[LifeHiscost]

Not at the end it's not. That is the only time his wrath is poured out without mixture.

Forgive me for the interjection, Richard, but that term "without mixture" means with no mercy, compassion, understanding, patience, and any other adjective that would describe the normal

(not strange) acts of the Lord of glory through His Holy Spirit.

"For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them." Psalms 75:8 KJV

Blessings!

[Guest]

Thank you for interjecting. Sky just skips over me without reading.

[skyblue888]

The brightness of His coming statement is in reference to God's character.

Quote:

But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.

In the time of John the Baptist, Christ was about to appear as the revealer of the character of God. His very presence would make manifest to men their sin. Only as they were willing to be purged from sin could they enter into fellowship with Him. Only the pure in heart could abide in His presence. (DA 108)

The light of the glory of God is the revelation of His character. Light = revelation. Glory = character. The next sentence makes clear this is the right interpretation, as it speaks of Christ as "the revealer of the character of God."

wow, thats exactly the statement I had in mind in D.A.108.

The Jews rejected the revelation of the glory (character) of God as manifested in Christ. God had no other choice but to withdraw His restraining power from the agencies of evil and thy were left to the control of the leader they had chosen. See G.C.28,35.

Thus they were destroyed by the revelation of His character just as Pharaoh's heart was hardened by evidence of the goodness of God.

hehe

[Guest]

The only way it can be said that it would be His strange act is in the sense that He would no longer protect. Mrs. White was shown that God's judgments do not come directly out from the Lord upon the wicked. Do you believe that implicitly Mark? The wicked, she says, place themselves where He can no longer protect them. Do you believe this implicitly Mark?

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." 14 MR 3.1

Fourth time now-

You are taking this quote out of context. She is not referring to the final judgment here, but the judgements that fall on sinful man during his lifetime. Here is the full quote:

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. {14MR 3.1}

[Woody]

Old habits are hard to break aren't they Richard.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue

The only way it can be said that it would be His strange act is in the sense that He would no longer protect. Mrs. White was shown that God's judgments do not come directly out from the Lord upon the wicked. Do you believe that implicitly Mark? The wicked, she says, place themselves where He can no longer protect them. Do you believe this implicitly Mark?

"I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection." 14 MR 3.1

Fourth time now-

You are taking this quote out of context. She is not referring to the final judgment here, but the judgements that fall on sinful man during his lifetime. Here is the full quote:

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. {14MR 3.1}

How did I take this quote out of context? It is the principle I always have in mind that God never stands to ward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression.

That last statement u quoted in full is the other foundational statement I have been using.

sky

[skyblue888]

Here is another one which again reveals that God is not an executioner of the sentence against transgression:

"So when Christ shall cease His intercession for guilty men, before His coming in the clouds of heaven, the door of mercy will be shut. Then divine grace will no longer restrain the wicked, and Satan will have full control of those who have rejected mercy. They will endeavor to destroy God's people; but as Noah was shut into the ark, so the righteous will be shielded by divine power." P.P.98.

sky

[skyblue888]

One more:

"The Lord is removing His restrictions from the earth, and soon there will be death and destruction, increasing crime, and cruel, evil working against the rich who have exalted themselves against the poor. Those who are without God's protection will find no safety in any place or position. Human agents are being trained and are using their inventive power to put in operation the most powerful machinery to wound and to kill." Testimonies, Vol.8, p.50.

This scenario will be repeated after the 1000 years as we have seen in other statements that have been presented from other posters on this thread.

And yet chapter 16 of the book of Revelation refers to this time as the pouring out of the vials of God's wrath upon the earth! Just more evidence that the language of the Bible regarding God's dealings with man cannot be subject to any private interpretation.

sky

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Fourth time now-

You are taking this quote out of context. She is not referring to the final judgment here, but the judgements that fall on sinful man during his lifetime. Here is the full quote:

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. {14MR 3.1} [/quote']

How did I take this quote out of context? It is the principle I always have in mind that God never stands to ward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression.

That last statement u quoted in full is the other foundational statement I have been using.sky

The destruction at the end is out of character for God. It is the only time his wrath is poured out without mixture. That's why is is strange for him. All of your quotes apply to everyday life.

[Lutz13]

The destruction at the end is out of character for God. It is the only time his wrath is poured out without mixture. That's why is is strange for him. All of your quotes apply to everyday life.

God never changes Richard. So His wrath is ever the same. This time though, He doesn't use His power to restrain the wicked. They are left to their own desires.

I'm not sure, are you familiar with the Wrath of God? I know many aren't and assume its God blowing people up with fury.

A study of Romans 1:18-28 would reveal that God gives them up to their own desires. That is the wrath of God.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

The destruction at the end is out of character for God. It is the only time his wrath is poured out without mixture. That's why is is strange for him. All of your quotes apply to everyday life.

What Richard? the only time the wrath of God is poured out without mixture! Are you sure about that? I dont think so. In Revelation 15:1 we read that when probation shall close the wrath of God will be complete which means that it will be without mixure. This Mrs. White confirms in the book The Great Controversy. It is also poured out without mixture after the 1000 years but on a much larger scale since the wicked of all ages will be there with all the host of Satan.

sky

[Woody]

We should not doubt the SOP.

[skyblue888]

All of your quotes apply to everyday life

_________________________________________

First they are not my quotes and they do not all apply to evey day life. I have quoted many statements in the last hour which deal with the end of probation.

So how can u say that they only apply to everyday life and even if they only applied to every day life the principle is always the same except that in the end God's restraining power from the agencies of evil is fully removed whereas before probation closes it is removed in a measure.

sky

[skyblue888]

"When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old." G.C.624.

And, as I said, in Revelation 15:1 this is described as the wrath of God being complete meaning that it is without mixture. So we do not have to wait until after the 1000 years for the wrath of God to be poured out without mixture. And we know now what the wrath of God is.

sky

[Woody]

The SOP is very clear.

[skyblue888]

Indeed, very clear, so clear that we have no excuse now not to believe.

sky

[Woody]

Absolutely NO excuse.

[Lutz13]

None...

[skyblue888]

"It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people . . . do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isaiah 24:4, 5. The Great Controversy, p.589.

sky

[skyblue888]

None...

[skyblue888]

We read that "The time is near when the large cities will be visited by the judgments of God. In a little while these cities will be terribly shaken." 7 T 83.

Now, let us consider how inspiration interprets itself. The next statement sheds light on the statement previously quoted:

"The wickedness of the inhabitants of the world has almost filled up the measure of their iniquity. This earth has almost reached the place where God will permit the destroyer to work his will upon it." 7 T 141.

sky