Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator?

[Guest]

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22,23

The signs of Christ's coming are fast fulfilling. Satan sees that he has but a short time in which to work, and he has set his agencies to work to stir up the elements of the world, that men may be deceived, deluded, and kept occupied and entranced until the day of probation shall be ended and the door of mercy be forever shut. {CT 414}

In the day of judgment all this opens up before the impenitent. Scene after scene passes before them. As plainly as in the light of the noonday sun, they all see what they might have been had they cooperated with God instead of opposing Him. The picture cannot be changed. Their cases are forever decided. They must perish with the one whose ways and works they followed. {UL 203}

[LifeHiscost]

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

How does one get around these plain words of the prophet?

Not sure I want at all to get around these words, which were written as she was given the information from God. And it is not inconsistent with the Word.

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."Deuteronomy 4:24 21st Century KJV

Satan set himself up as a god. Why should the justice of Almighty God be changed for him when if man sets himself up as a god, man who is much more ignorant of the kingdom of light than Lucifer was, gets destroyed by God Who is referred to as a consuming fire?

Another point that comes to my mind is that in the final disposition of the wicked, I would far rather fall into the hands of God as opposed to others who would probably set up an eternally burning fire for me to roast in, instead of an oblivion without grief or pain.

"Now when David arose in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying, “Go and tell David, ‘Thus says the LORD: “I offer you three things; choose one of them for yourself, that I may do it to you.”’

” So Gad came to David and told him; and he said to him, “Shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days’ plague in your land? Now consider and see what answer I should take back to Him who sent me.”

And David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Please let us fall into the hand of the LORD, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of man.”

So the LORD sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died.

And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, “It is enough; now restrain your hand.” And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

Then David spoke to the LORD when he saw the angel who was striking the people, and said, “Surely I have sinned, and I have done wickedly; but these sheep, what have they done? Let Your hand, I pray, be against me and against my father’s house.”

And David built there an altar to the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD heeded the prayers for the land, and the plague was withdrawn from Israel." 2 Samuel 24:11-17,25 NKJV

Blessings!

[Guest]

Amen

[LifeHiscost]

it takes away all my self-sufficiency and reduces me to absolute dependence and trust on the Lord to rescue myself, or loved ones, from any harm.

Praise God!

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning."James 1:17 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

A. Graham Maxwell said "even the wicked have nothing to fear of God."

"There is no fear in love."

Perhaps he was considering some other Scriptural context.

"...saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His Judgment is come. "

Revelation 14:7 21st Century KJV

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."Matthew 10:28 NKJV

I have a feeling he may have been referring to this one.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."1 John 4:18

21st Century KJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: RichardHolbrook

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. {EW 294.1}

How does one get around these plain words of the prophet?

Get around? What's there to "get around"? This is clearly symbolic. "Worm of life" "least particle for it to prey upon".

I'm also wondering, pnattmbtc, if you consider that first and second sentence as symbolic? And if they are, where does the information come from that identifies them in symbolism? If not, where does one determine the separation between symbolism and reality in the same paragraph?

Blessings!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Well, he is right for me though. I don't want God to kill the wicked. I wish He could save them all.

I do not know who will be saved or not. But I just couldn't imagine sitting on the walls of new Jerusalem watching a family member being burned alive by God.

i dont think we have stopped to think about that. watching loved ones, friends or family, being tortured alive for their sins is not something i want to watch, nor rejoice in.

my personal conclusions have "evolved" over the years. at first i accepted it as a cold, impersonal fact that God tortured the lost for their sins, tho i wondered how that made Him different from satan who also tortures his enemies.

but as i continued studying and noticing statements and verses that had been overlooked before the ultimate conclusion i have come to is that when the lost turn on each other with the bloodbath that ensues that God would rain fire down on them to end it all.

but my mind had not registered what my eyes saw. the lost knowledgeable in weaponry construct weapons before marching against the city. before i had just seen them marching up to the city unarmed. so now it is a real possibility that the lost turn the weapons on satan and his angels and all go up together.

we know that with the atomic bomb people did not die right away. nor do they with nuclear weapons. depending where one is when those weapons go off it can be a most prolonged, miserable death.

we are also told that the lost turn on satan and his angels with the fury of demons.

Quote:

His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

Quote:

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." ... Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {GC 672.1}

it took adam and eve almost nine hundred years longer to die than it does us, so we might need to take that into consideration.

Quote:

I think I have come to a conclusion on this whole study. Many nights while I work I speak with my Father about this and wonderful things come to my mind. I can now finally have no fear of my Heavenly Father. I know He will never use force, even when one goes against Him. His wrath is the same and the way He deals with sin will always be the same. I can now read through scripture peacefully and reading the things that God says He will do. Even when it sounds violent, I know that God isn't the one who really causes the violence. It is the choice man makes. David had many of these moments. God said He would bring adversity upon David and cause his neighbor to take his wives. Well God never caused it, yet He said He did it. I'm beginning to wonder if God is protecting His very own adversary as well. I can stand back and say "Wow, what love!" I can stop following Him for fear and start loving Him like the wonderful Father He is.

He is up there guiding me down the path. When I slip off He picks me up and carries me back onto the road. God wants to protect me from the actions I take. He wants to show me that I don't have to be afraid of Him blowing me up if I don't follow Him. I am unsure how one does not follow Him out of fear with such thoughts as that.

Think hard about this. Do you worship God because you think if you don't He will burn you up? Perhaps the thought of never existing again? Or do you worship Him because you love Him?

My mind is now set on this. I do not claim to know everything there is to know. There are many questions I will have to patiently wait to ask. I truly look forward to that day!

you gave a beautiful witness!

i also see God in a different light now that my "pre-conceived" opinions are being reshaped by my mind registering statements and verses i had read but not before seen the significance of them.

but what absolutely amazes me, holds me in awe of such a tremendous God, is how He is able to be in absolute control without breaking, or going outside, His law!!

if God never uses "loopholes" or excuses, called "good reasons", to break His law, how much less excuse do i have to ever break His law for any reason.

it takes away all my self-sufficiency and reduces me to absolute dependence and trust on the Lord to rescue myself, or loved ones, from any harm.

Indeed the lost do turn on Satan, but it does not say that the lost destroy Satan.

That is the part I am cautious about.

If someone can show me in the bible or SOP where it says that, then I am willing to accept it.

But without inspiration, we are on speculative ground.

Mark :-

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The position you have presented earlier in the thread is that the suffering happens in the 1000 years.[/quote']i missed that post, could you point it out, please?

It was way earlier.

Sky can confirm he made that suggestion I am sure, I do not have much time at the moment to trawl back on this thread unfortunately. :-)

Mark

[LifeHiscost]

At that point they would choose heaven if they could. They are not given another chance as you seem to think. That simply is not Biblical.

I'm in agreement with that. At the last they choose heaven but not the heaven ruled by the Father and Son. They wish to replace the Father and Son with their own method of control, which results are plainly revealed in the world in which we are now living.

Blessings!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But then we have to consider that each will suffer for their sins "during" the lake of fire Sky.

The position you have presented earlier in the thread is that the suffering happens in the 1000 years.

That is not consistent with SOP, (I had a read of GC) this morning).

There is a specific suffering satan goes through, it is longer than everyone elses and he is the last one to be destroyed.

It happens when the fire consumes him.

Mark [/quote']

Mark you are taking the short sight view of the whole matter. What did i say that is not consistent with the SOP? It is true that during the 1000 years Satan will suffer much mentally. All I said was that this is only the beginning of his sufferings. After the thousand years he will have to face the fury of demons to get a taste of his own medicine which he has used on humans for 6,000 years. And you can be sure that he will suffer more than anyone but the Lord will not be the master of hell fire to make sure that he stays alive so he can suffer and suffer and suffer just because God wants him to suffer. That would make God a sadistic Person.

The fire will consume him but that fire will come from his own midst in the ensuing battle, the greatest battle ever fought upon this earth with implements of war that you and I may have never seen or heard of. There will be the antediluvians there who will have plenty of time to construct powerful implements of war.

sky

Now the question here Sky, is this idea that men destroy Satan.

Is there one SOP quote or bible quote to assert this position?

Just one?

Otherwise, how can I treat it as other than speculation?

At this point, I do not see any reason to move away from the idea that God performs His strange act.

Why?

Because I have not been given a "thus saith the Lord".

Am I supposed to be a Berean?

Searching the scriptures to see if these things are so?

Well help me in my search my friend.

Show me where this idea is found in inspiration?

Otherwise you are asking me to accept an "idea" that I do not know the source of.

That I cannot do.

How do I know that you have not been blinded on this issue?

That you have a misconstrued idea of the nature of God?

I cannot.

Unless you give me a thus saith the Lord.

In love,

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: teresaq

you do know, richard, that early writings was of her first visions, then God gave her more information which she used to write spirit of prophecy and then the great controversy, which she later revised into the 1911 edition, right?

in other words, her first books were more of outlines, which she then filled in in later books and articles.

either way we cant use one book of hers to contradict another book. [/quote']

Excellent point Teresaq.

Mrs. White was shown that in order to arrive at the truth on any subject from her writings we must compare statement with statement even if these statements are separated by many years. In the Great Controversy p.672 she quotes Ezekiel 28 the very passages some say do not refer to Satan and she applies them directly to Satan and how he will be destroyed, at the hand of the terrible of the nations. Of course fire will consume him but that fire will not come directly out from the Lord upon him. Of course the language of the Bible is that it will but that language is not left to private interpretation. When comparing Scripture with Scripture and statement with statement we find that it simply means that the Lord will not intervene when the most terrible of the nations shall use powerful implements of war that they will direct at him and his evil angels.

sky

She also then goes on to state that whilst Eze 28 refers primarily to Satan, it also describes a movement.

So we have to be careful we are not taking a generalised statement on the Prince of Tyrus, that covers many elements, and think it must all apply.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Are you saying Early Writings is wrong? I actually see more detail there, not less, like an outline. Anyway here is Great Controversy:

All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}

and before that it says:

Quote:

His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

and the bible says which she quoted

Quote:

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." ... Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {GC 672.1}

so the question would be, does ellen white contradict the bible?

But it does not say they kill Satan.

And being brought down into the pit, is that not the 1000 years SOP is reffering to, I think you will find it is?

Mark

[Twilight]

I can see in scripture the idea that God revealing His Glory is a consuming fire.

Is this His "Strange Act"?

Is the unveiling of His Glory, the fire from Heaven.

Is it the case that when God reveals Himself fully, that sin is destroyed?

That God by choosing to reveal his full Glory brings a natural consequence of the wicked being destroyed?

The bible seems to allow that interpretation.

But not the idea that men kill Satan.

Mark :-)

[LifeHiscost]

That is the part I am cautious about.

If someone can show me in the bible or SOP where it says that, then I am willing to accept it.

But without inspiration, we are on speculative ground.

Mark :-

Amen!

[pnattmbtc]

The choice is not offered at the end of time. It is to late.

Richard, you're completely missing my point, although I've explained it several times. My point is not that the wicked will get a second chance. They've fixed their characters. My point was that God is not doing something against their will.

[pnattmbtc]

I'm also wondering, pnattmbtc, if you consider that first and second sentence as symbolic? And if they are, where does the information come from that identifies them in symbolism? If not, where does one determine the separation between symbolism and reality in the same paragraph?

The *vision* was symbolic. The prophet, whether Ellen White or John, described what was seen and heard in the vision.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Now the question here Sky, is this idea that men destroy Satan.

Is there one SOP quote or bible quote to assert this position?

Just one?

Otherwise, how can I treat it as other than speculation?

At this point, I do not see any reason to move away from the idea that God performs His strange act.

Why?

Because I have not been given a "thus saith the Lord".

Am I supposed to be a Berean?

Searching the scriptures to see if these things are so?

Well help me in my search my friend.

Show me where this idea is found in inspiration?

Otherwise you are asking me to accept an "idea" that I do not know the source of.

That I cannot do.

How do I know that you have not been blinded on this issue?

That you have a misconstrued idea of the nature of God?

I cannot.

Unless you give me a thus saith the Lord.

In love,

Mark :-)

His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

Quote:

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." ... Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {GC 672.1}

Mark, my brother, lately, you never cease to amaze me. You keep asking for inspiration to support the position that Satan will be brought down to the Pit by the hand of the wicked after the thousand years; we keep referring you to the above quotations that are so plain and simple and yet you keep asking for inspiration.

These two references are inspiration my friend and there is no way they can be misconstrued. The fact that Satan will fall by the hand of aliens is stated in Holy Writ so clearly that a child can understand it. If we can't accept the plainest declarations of Scripture and the plainest declarations of the SOP, what more can the Lord do for us to enlighten us? pray tell me.

The reason why you and others are having difficulty understanding this subject is very simple, you refuse to believe implicitly, as a little child would, what inspiration says, and that is that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36. This is always true my friend no matter what any man may assert. It has always been true, it is true now, and it will always be true. Just accept this statement by faith and the Lord will give you understanding. Until you accept this everlasting principle you will never be able to discern the truth of His character.

in love,

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Richard

The choice is not offered at the end of time. It is to late.

Richard, you're completely missing my point, although I've explained it several times. My point is not that the wicked will get a second chance. They've fixed their characters. My point was that God is not doing something against their will.

Why is this so hard to see?

I guess if we say "yes" on one point we may be afraid that we will have to say "yes" or some other point which could mean that we would have to change our position and this is what I believe is the hardest thing for us to do as a people because we think that we know and possess everything when it comes to understanding the Word of God. I am not saying this. The Lord is. In 1 S.M.358 the Lord Himself says that the people of Laodicea "claim to know and possess everything."

sky

[skyblue888]

I can see in scripture the idea that God revealing His Glory is a consuming fire.

Is this His "Strange Act"?

Is the unveiling of His Glory, the fire from Heaven.

Is it the case that when God reveals Himself fully, that sin is destroyed?

That God by choosing to reveal his full Glory brings a natural consequence of the wicked being destroyed?

The bible seems to allow that interpretation.

But not the idea that men kill Satan.

Mark :-)

His strange act! Did you miss something Mark? The other day I posted something as to what inspiration tells us what is actually God's strange act. You must have missed it. Like I said before, there are two statements that I know of from inspiration about God's strange act. The one usually quoted is usually misunderstood and the second one no one seems to be familiar with. I will quote them again.

"The work of destruction is a strange work to Him who is infinite in love." P.P.139.

This statement is taken to mean that God is the executioner of the sentence against transgression and that this is His strange work. But that statement is not saying that the work of destruction is God's strange work but that it is a strange work.

"Satan is the destroyer."6 T 388. "God destroys no man." C.O.L.85.

Now then, what is God's strange work?

"God's great and strange work is to redeem and save and thus repair the ruin that sin has made." Review and Herald, Vol.3, p.583.

This is His strange work, not to destroy, but to be constantly at work to repair the ruin that sin and Satan have made. It is written that Jesus came to this earth to destroy the works of the devil. In order to "destroy" the works of the devil He had to uncover the many truths that Satan had buried underneath the rubbish of human traditions and theories and maxims and to be constantly healing those whom Satan had afflicted with many illnesses, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

This is God's strange act my friend.

in love,

sky

At the end of the thousand years when all the unsaved of all ages are gathered around the city in their mortal state, God the Father and Christ will be there in all their divine glory, and all the redeemed will be there clothed with the same glory, and all the glorious angels will be there too and yet all the unsaved will be standing there around the City without being destroyed by that glory.

The way sinners are detroyed by the glory of God is when they reject the light that is sent to them and it is by the persistent rejection of light that the Holy Spirit (the glory of God in the form of grace) is forced to withdran from the unbelieving sinners and they are left to the control and enmity and malice of Satan. It is in that sense that they are destroyed by the glory of God. This is what is going to take place in these last days. Those who will reject the loud cry message will be destroyed by the seven last plagues and yet it is said that they will be destroyed by the glory of God. The Jews were destroyed by the glory of God too as they rejected the light of the glory of God which was shining in the face of Jesus Christ. The protection of God was finally withdrawn from them and God's restraining power was removed from the evil agencies and they were left to the control of the leader they had chosen. This is clearly stated in the book The Great Controversy, p.p.28,35,36.

This is how they were destroyed by the glory of God and this is how the wicked after the thousand years will be destroyed, not by the direct act or decree of God but the wicked will turn on Satan and his angels first and then on themselves.

sky

[Lutz13]

Something to consider:

Generally people are afraid of the executioner. Many claim God is the executioner that will destroy sin. So are we to be afraid of Him because of this? You may say well since I'm on His side, I'm not being executed and I have nothing to fear. Yet if you put yourself in the one who is being executed shoes. Wouldn't you then be afraid?

So do the majority worship God because they are afraid of Him? Afraid that they could be the executed?

God isn't the executioner, self is.

"They would have none of my counsel and despised my every rebuke. Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, and be filled to the full with their own fancies."(Proverbs 1:30-31)

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

and before that it says:

Quote:

His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

and the bible says which she quoted

Quote:

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." ... Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {GC 672.1}

so the question would be, does ellen white contradict the bible? [/quote']

But it does not say they kill Satan.

And being brought down into the pit, is that not the 1000 years SOP is reffering to, I think you will find it is?

Mark

No Mark, you are looking for a loophole. The Pit is the lake of fire. There is no other place because this is taking place at the end of the thousand years not during the thousand years. There will be no wicked alive during the 1000 years to draw their swords against Satan as this passage of Scripture says. It is after the thousand years that these events are taking place at the time of the executive judgment and God will not be the executioner but the wicked will execute themselves, Satan and his branches.

sky

[skyblue888]

We need to learn the language of Heaven. When the angels in Heaven hear God say, "I will destroy them," they know right away what that means. They know that this means that the wicked have reached a point where their cup of iniquity is full and that God can no longer prevent Satan from doing his work. They know that this means that the comnand will be given them from God to no longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy and they are filled with sadness as God is. They know that this means that they will no longer be able to protect them from the malice and enmity of Satan.

After the thousand years Satan and his angels and all the unsaved of all ages will be left to themselves and in the end, when all has been said and done, they will accuse one another for being lost but they will all agree to put the blame on Satan and his angels and they will turn upon them with the fury of demons and they will bring them down to the Pit.

It is plainly written that Satan will fall at the hand of these aliens. If both of us were hit by the same deadly virus but you were able to withstand the evil effects of that virus longer than I could but to finally succomb months after I did, you would have suffered longer than me and then died. Now would that do away with the fact that the same virus that killed me was the same virus that killed you? It is the same after the thousand years. Satan will be the last one to fall from being hit again and again by the wicked who will make sure he pays for all the heinous crimes he perpetrated upon the human race. And it is in that sense that God will destroy him even by the brightness of His glory. Lucifer had lived in the very presence of God. He knew God like no other except for Christ and the Holy Spirit of course. But he came to the place where all the glory he had received from God he claimed as pertaining to himself. This was his iniquity. He lost his bearings and in spite of many repeated attempts to bring him back to reason, he continued his rebellion against One who had clothed him with unsurpassed glory. He rejected the light of God's glory, the light of His goodness, the light of His mercy and truth. And now after the thousand years he will reap that which he has sown. He will die at the hand of those whom he tempted and deceived. He will die at the hand of those whom he caused great suffering, physically, mentally, and spiritually. And God will not have lifted a finger against him any more than He did against Saul whom the Scriptures declare God slew! 1 Chronicles 10:4,14.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

She also then goes on to state that whilst Eze 28 refers primarily to Satan, it also describes a movement.

So we have to be careful we are not taking a generalised statement on the Prince of Tyrus, that covers many elements, and think it must all apply.

Mark :-)

The general movement spoken of here is about the wicked in these last days. It takes nothing away from the primary application. The first application is to Satan after the thousand years. The general movement she says we will witness if we are alive before the second coming. It refers to the great apostasy. What Lucifer did in Heaven will be done again by those who profess to believe present truth. Satan impeached God as not being fit to rule. So he proposed a new government, a new organization. The same thing is happening as we speak. The movement Mrs. White is talking about which will be general is the ecumenical movement which will take in all the churches including the Laodicean church. This will be the great apostasy of the last days. Just as the Jewish church joined with the Romans to crucify Jesus out of this world, the church in these last days will join with the worldly churches to influence the State to put to death those whom they cannot bring into subjection, to bow down to their usurped authority.

This is the image of the beast. It is the general movement we shall witness. And those who take part in that general movement will, at the time of the sixth plague, turn upon the ministers and leaders who deceived them just as Satan and his angels will be destroyed by all those whom they will have deceived since the beginning of time.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue

Do not wait to see if others can see this before you believe. If you do, you will go on in darkness!

I disagree.

I don't believe my salvation, or yours, depends upon wheather we understand the destruction of the wicked.

Richard, it is not about the destruction of the wicked per se but about understanding the language of Holy Writ when it says that God did this or that God did that or that He will do this or that. It is about accepting or rejecting light, accepting or rejecting the revealed principle that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36. There are no two ways to accept this statement. It is true or it is not. If it is stating the truth, then it means that God will not be the executioner of the sentence against transgression after the thousand years any more than He has ever been no matter what you and I say. We must accept this truth implicitly and wait for the Lord to teach us what He means when He says in the Scriptures that He will do this or do that. He has been trying to explain these things to us here but are we listening? I am telling you Richard, if we refuse to accept this plain statement of truth, we are rejecting light and we will find ourselves fighting against more light and thus the enemy will be able to use us to cast his shadow across the pathway of others to intercept every ray of heavenly light.

The whole thing about the character of God hangs or falls upon the reception or rejection of that simple declaration: "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36.

In the day of Judgment the Lord will ask us why we did not believe that plain declaration and wait for Him to teach us.

sky

"If you see a little light, you are not to stand back and say, 'I will wait until my brethren have seen it.' If you do, you will go on in darkness." F.W.77,78.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Now the question here Sky, is this idea that men destroy Satan.

Is there one SOP quote or bible quote to assert this position?

Just one?

Otherwise, how can I treat it as other than speculation?

At this point, I do not see any reason to move away from the idea that God performs His strange act.

Why?

Because I have not been given a "thus saith the Lord".

Am I supposed to be a Berean?

Searching the scriptures to see if these things are so?

Well help me in my search my friend.

Show me where this idea is found in inspiration?

Otherwise you are asking me to accept an "idea" that I do not know the source of.

That I cannot do.

How do I know that you have not been blinded on this issue?

That you have a misconstrued idea of the nature of God?

I cannot.

Unless you give me a thus saith the Lord.

In love,

Mark :-) [/quote']

His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

Quote:

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." ... Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {GC 672.1}

Mark, my brother, lately, you never cease to amaze me. You keep asking for inspiration to support the position that Satan will be brought down to the Pit by the hand of the wicked after the thousand years; we keep referring you to the above quotations that are so plain and simple and yet you keep asking for inspiration.

These two references are inspiration my friend and there is no way they can be misconstrued. The fact that Satan will fall by the hand of aliens is stated in Holy Writ so clearly that a child can understand it. If we can't accept the plainest declarations of Scripture and the plainest declarations of the SOP, what more can the Lord do for us to enlighten us? pray tell me.

The reason why you and others are having difficulty understanding this subject is very simple, you refuse to believe implicitly, as a little child would, what inspiration says, and that is that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression." G.C.36. This is always true my friend no matter what any man may assert. It has always been true, it is true now, and it will always be true. Just accept this statement by faith and the Lord will give you understanding. Until you accept this everlasting principle you will never be able to discern the truth of His character.

in love,

sky

Two points my friend. :-)

1. You have not supplied a quote stating Satan is killed by man.

2. Satan being brought down into the pit, is indicative of Satan being bound for a 1000 years.

It is not a matter of accepting this truth like a little child.

It is a matter of not accepting something there is not specific inspiration for.

So I ask again, do you have a specific statement or text that shows man kills Satan?

If you have, then I will accept it.

Mark :-)